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post #1 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've noticed that only a few blu-ray discs are anamorphic. Why so?
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post #2 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 12:53 PM
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No BD discs are anamorphic. They don't need to be, since they're already using most or all of the 16:9 frame.

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post #3 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimbamboom View Post

I've noticed that only a few blu-ray discs are anamorphic. Why so?

Not a few - none. There is no specification in blu-ray for such a thing and there would be very little use for it since the image is native 16:9. Constant height projections with anamorphic lenses is the only thing I can think of (for scope movies).


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post #4 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimbamboom View Post

I've noticed that only a few blu-ray discs are anamorphic. Why so?

Huh?

If you mean anamorphic as in 2.4:1 scope ratio, there is no shortage of such titles.

If you mean the anamorphic squeeze used on DVDs to enhance the vertical resolution of widescreen content, that doesn't exist on Blu-ray. Everything is stored in the 1920x1080 frame so 2.4:1 movies only have ~800 vertical pixels.
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post #5 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 01:02 PM
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Anamorphic mode is not used on Blu-ray (or HD DVD RIP) as they are presented in their Original Aspect Ratio and their is no provision for anamorphic stretch as was required fro DVD to improve the effective resolution. The black bars on a widescreen Blu-ray are using some pixels, but since 1920 x 1280 p24 gives you more to work with, and its formatted to fit on a standard 16:9 HDTV display anyway, the black bars take up less pixels and less space than the bars did on a 4:3 set.

You gain a lot from an anamorphic DVD from not using a letterboxed/windowboxed 4:3, 1.33 image with burned in black bars on a 480i60 image. With the anamorphic stretch there, you gain more pixels and scan lines for the image data when you do the anamorphic squeeze. You don't gain a lot from eliminating the bars on a 16:9 1.78 image on a 1920x1080p24 image as the bars are smaller and you get more lines and pixels to work with.

If you want more, go to the CIH constant height front projector forum to see how you can do an anamorphic enhancement yourself.

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post #6 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 01:41 PM
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I have a feeling this is just another "why doesn't it fill up my entire screen?" thread.

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post #7 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

No BD discs are anamorphic. They don't need to be, since they're already using most or all of the 16:9 frame.

That's what I thought. But I was reading some blu-ray reviews at dvdactive and the reviewer indicates that some discs are anamorphic and some are not. For example, the site indicates that Independance Day is non-anamorphic, and Walk Hard The Dewey Cox Story is anamorphic.
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post #8 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 03:10 PM
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I thought using all of a 16:9 display was the definition of anamorphic. Could someone straighten me out?

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post #9 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by win200 View Post

I thought using all of a 16:9 display was the definition of anamorphic. Could someone straighten me out?

It was for DVD. There's really NO definition for "anamorphic" that really pertains to Blu-ray... as all discs are encoded for 16:9 displays.

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Originally Posted by bimbamboom View Post

That's what I thought. But I was reading some blu-ray reviews at dvdactive and the reviewer indicates that some discs are anamorphic and some are not. For example, the site indicates that Independance Day is non-anamorphic, and Walk Hard The Dewey Cox Story is anamorphic.

Their reviewers are either mistaken or using anamorphic to describe the way the film was show (though "Walk Hard" wouldn't apply). On film, shooting "scope" (or anamorphic) would mean shooting 35mm with anamorphic lenses to "squeeze" the 2.39:1 image onto 1.37:1 film stock. Shooting Super35, on the other hand (which is the standard now) means shooting without anamorphic squeeze onto the film negative and then cropping the captured image to 2.39:1 before the anamorphic prints are sent to theatres.

Either way, though, as far as Blu-ray is concerned, there is no definition of anamorphic that correctly defines video on the format.
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post #10 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoq View Post

I have a feeling this is just another "why doesn't it fill up my entire screen?" thread.

That's the thought that came to me. I may be wrong.
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post #11 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 03:31 PM
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Anamorphic is a term that describes a particular process that, in this context, only applies to DVDs. Take a hypothetical 16:9 film. This film is compressed (squished horizontally) to a 4:3 ratio, and stored in this format on the DVD. The DVD player then stretches it back out to 16:9, restoring the proper ratio and allowing it to fill the whole screen of a widescreen TV. This explanation is a vast simplification, but that's the effect.

A non-anamorphic 16:9 film is not compressed or stretched, but still must be stored in the same way. This means that extra black bars are needed at the top and bottom, and the DVD player does not stretch the image and does not fill the widescreen TV. You are left with a 16:9 image surrounded by black bars on all 4 sides. The aspect ratio is correct, but there is more of your TV that you could correctly fill without breaking the aspect ratio if the movie had been anamorphic-formatted.

With Blu-ray, the native storing format is 16:9. So no compressing / stretching is needed. The Blu-ray player simply outputs the stored 16:9 image, and it fits properly on your widescreen TV.

If anamorphic HAD been used for Blu-ray, it would be to store 2.39:1 films in a compressed 16:9 form, for later stretching on potential native 2.39:1 TV screens. Such screens don't currently exist, but if they did you'd face the same problem as with non-anamorphic DVDs on a widescreen TV, except now it'd be non-anamorphic 2.39:1 films on a "super" widescreen TV.
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post #12 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 03:31 PM
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The original reason for anamorphic picture on DVD was to squeeze out as much resolution as possible from the 720x480 picture, specifically the 480 vertical lines of resolution. Since Blu-ray is natively 1920x1080 and no consumer standard for video exists which has higher resolution than that, any theoretical anamorphic encoding would have no benefit since there are no displays out there which could display the increased vertical resolution.
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post #13 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoq View Post

I have a feeling this is just another "why doesn't it fill up my entire screen?" thread.

Yea, we just had someone open up a new one on the PS3 forum today. A new guy with 17 posts. Always a funny/sad read. Time to lay down some audio video science for him.

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Originally Posted by NEWGUY View Post

"Full mode is what I ended up using but it still did not use the entire screen (bars at top and bottom), I thought these tvs were made to be naturally 16:9 and therefore utilize the fullscreen..."


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post #14 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:03 PM
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as I do not own or use a front projector but I thought that these new Blu Ray anamorphic titles were optimized for people with projectors...

Its interesting that some titles are listed as anamorphic while the majority are not. Its hard to believe this is an oversight. And since no one owns a 2.40:1 HDTV how do you know these titles aren't in fact anamorphic?
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post #15 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:08 PM
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further explanation

both formats support more than one resolution but lets stick with the most used resolution for the main feature which is 1920x1080 for bluray and 720x480 for DVD

bluray as mentioned already is a 16:9 resolution (1920x1080)

DVD is at a resolution that is neither 4:3 or 16:9 (720x480)

for 4:3 content the image is slightly stretched on the disc and the image is squeezed in to fit a 4:3 aspect ratio

for 16:9 content on a 16:9 TV the image is squeezed in on the disc and then stretched out to fit the 16:9 screen

to further explain this here are a few dvd screenshots from an anamorphic disc

first shot is at a proper 16:9 resolution (853x480) second is the actual 720x480 frame captured from the dvd




and here is an example of how the same film would look on the disc as a non-anamorphic dvd



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post #16 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history2b View Post

And since no one owns a 2.40:1 HDTV how do you know these titles aren't in fact anamorphic?

All you have to do is look at Xylon's screen captures. Black bars are burned into the picture at top and bottom for wider than 16:9 aspects and at the sides for narrower.
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post #17 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history2b View Post

as I do not own or use a front projector but I thought that these new Blu Ray anamorphic titles were optimized for people with projectors...

Its interesting that some titles are listed as anamorphic while the majority are not. Its hard to believe this is an oversight. And since no one owns a 2.40:1 HDTV how do you know these titles aren't in fact anamorphic?

Anamorphic squeeze in not in the HD DVD or Blu-ray specs.

Maybe an insider will see this thread and chime in with the absolute correct reasoning, but I'm pretty sure it was intentionally left out of the specs because the vertical filtering issues it would create far outweigh the benefits to the practically nonexistent 2.4:1 display market.
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post #18 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Reloaded View Post

Anamorphic is a term that describes a particular process that, in this context, only applies to DVDs. Take a hypothetical 16:9 film. This film is compressed (squished horizontally) to a 4:3 ratio, and stored in this format on the DVD.

DVD's native ratio is 1.5:1 not 4:3; everything is anamorphic.
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post #19 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by history2b View Post

And since no one owns a 2.40:1 HDTV how do you know these titles aren't in fact anamorphic?

Rip the BD and load it into any video editor, and you'll see.
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post #20 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Since Blu-ray is natively 1920x1080 and no consumer standard for video exists which has higher resolution than that, any theoretical anamorphic encoding would have no benefit since there are no displays out there which could display the increased vertical resolution.

Exactly, and there would be added artifacts as the player resizes back down to 1920x1080, resulting in worse PQ for everyone with a 16:9 set.
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post #21 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 07:44 PM
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I thought Crank said it was anamorphic, which made sense to me sense it's 2.35:1 but still takes up the entire screen.
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post #22 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 08:24 PM
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I've only seen one Blu Ray that says anamorphic on the box and thats Batman Begins, which I don't believe anyone owns just yet.
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post #23 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 08:35 PM
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Actually anamorphic 2.35 BD would be a nice enhancement in case we get native 2.35 projectors.
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post #24 of 80 Old 07-07-2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Cornerstone View Post

I thought Crank said it was anamorphic, which made sense to me sense it's 2.35:1 but still takes up the entire screen.

Crank is 1.85:1. And any covers that say "anamorphic" are just errors.
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post #25 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 07:36 AM
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To make it clear guys, DVD's are actually 4:3 and use non square pixels. HD uses square pixels thus no need for anamorphic squeeze. Anamorphic squeeze is used on DVD to gain as much resolution on medium that is really 4:3.

Also if any cover or review of Blu-ray says anamorphic, it is a mistake.
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post #26 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by history2b View Post

I've only seen one Blu Ray that says anamorphic on the box and thats Batman Begins, which I don't believe anyone owns just yet.

I just picked up Batman Begins Blu-ray (US normal edition)and I do not see anywhere where it says "anamorphic".
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post #27 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 10:49 AM
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I'm trying to figure out where a reviewer actually said a BD was anamorphic.

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post #28 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I'm trying to figure out where a reviewer actually said a BD was anamorphic.

They used to mark them as such at DVD Verdict on older reviews (for example, Alien vs. Predator), but I believe that they have been correctly marking them as non-anamorphic for some time. There are probably other examples, but it's entirely understandable that there would be confusion around this issue even among reviewers.


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post #29 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

it's entirely understandable that there would be confusion around this issue even among reviewers.

Why is that ? There is nothing about the technical specs indicating anamorphic.

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post #30 of 80 Old 07-08-2008, 12:22 PM
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