The Mummy comparison *PIX* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailergod View Post

got both version and I say to ... BLU encoding got more DNR to it....

u can actually see it from the removed dirt ....

I think we need more PIX to further support that theory
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post #182 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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post #183 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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post #184 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 04:10 AM
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Eh. The BRD is "sharper" but the extra DNR is bumming me out. Universal, you boneheads.
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post #185 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 08:24 AM
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I prefer the look of the BD. There is something going on below Jonathans ear on the HD DVD that is not there on the BD.

"My ignorance amuses me." .......Manfred Powell

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post #186 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACCA350 View Post

BTW FilmMaker,
Does any of the encoders have some form of enhancement options that can be engaged or applied to the encoding process?

cheers

No enhancements... just things like Dial Norm and DNR, etc..

Also, looking at the Sound Forge pix, the tracks don't look to contain much different information, but the levels are obviously not matched.... Looking at a waveform, at different amplitudes, makes it hard to get a read with sub information.. there could be a DC current in one, etc, that will make them look different...

The only true way to see if they are different is to get them exactly level matched (which is hard to do without comparative meters) and completely in sync, and then filipping the phase on one and see whats left...
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post #187 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 09:02 AM
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I did some more testing tonight.

DVD:

War of the Worlds (laser scene just after the machine emerges)
DD -7.0db (DN -4db)
DTS -3.8db (DN -4db)


Monsters Inc (girl laughs 29:30)
DD -8.3db (DN -4db)
DTS -4.2db

Hulk (gamma radiation 28:30)
DD -7.8db (DN -4db)
DTS -3.7db


HD DVD:

Disterbia (car crash scene at the start)
DD+ -17.9db (DN -4db)
DTS -5.8db


Sahara (Cannon takes helicopter 151:20)
DD+ -18.5db (DN -4db)
DTS -18.5db (DN -4db)


cheers
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post #188 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 10:12 AM
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Just curious.. on Disturbia, do you also see the 10db difference on the main channels?

On that sample again, the frequency seems to be twice that of the other...

And what time base are you looking at? Seconds?
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post #189 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 10:16 AM
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Maybe it would make more sense to start a new thread for the audio comparisons, rather than page 7 of a PIX thread?

Just ordered the Red version of The Mummy. Even for a "bitrate watcher" like me, the extra DNR and EE on Blu are more detrimental than Red's slight increase in blocking IMO.
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post #190 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Maybe it would make more sense to start a new thread for the audio comparisons, rather than page 7 of a PIX thread?

Just ordered the Red version of The Mummy. Even for a "bitrate watcher" like me, the extra DNR and EE on Blu are more detrimental than Red's slight increase in blocking IMO.

I'm sure being a fraction of the price now doesn't hurt either, lol!

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post #191 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post


the mushiness on the BD is painfully obvious

-Gary
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post #192 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 04:39 PM
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This shot doesn't look tampered with to me.. From the blu-ray

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post #193 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Just curious.. on Disturbia, do you also see the 10db difference on the main channels?

This time I didn't check the main channels. Top Gun had a difference of about 3db on the mains and 10db on the sub channel, wouldn't be surprised if it was similar.

Quote:


On that sample again, the frequency seems to be twice that of the other...

They're both about the same, 150Hz

Quote:


And what time base are you looking at? Seconds?

The recorded samples are around 10-60 seconds long, but that close up Disturbia graph covers about 0.5 second, the others are similar.

You can see that the Sahara tracks are identical. Some are identical apart from amplitude, some others have much more variations.


Sorry for the OT guys, I already have a DTV thread going. Is anyone interested in starting one here also?

cheers
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post #194 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACCA350 View Post

Sorry for the OT guys, I already have a DTV thread going. Is anyone interested in starting one here also?

cheers

YES!

/Chuck

'Musicality' is the last refuge of a tweak.
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post #195 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck V View Post

YES!

/Chuck

Done, Here is the new thread.

cheers
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post #196 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

This shot doesn't look tampered with to me.. From the blu-ray

there is some mushiness on Rachel's face

-Gary
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post #197 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 08:44 PM
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Both of the mummy movies are my wifes guilty pleasures. I got her the HD DVD's for her this past XMAS. Since I am planning on taking her to the new one. Buying these for the free tickets was one of my reason. Looks like they did some clean up on the BD version as some of the lines and artifacts are gone as well as some darker scenes look less noisy on the BD. I would take the BD over HD DVD even with the EE. Any regret of a double dip was done away with by the audio. The BD DTS-HD hands down beats the DD+ HD DVD. Great thread by the way....
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post #198 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

there is some mushiness on Rachel's face

-Gary

Some but its rather clean. I am pretty sure there are few movies with completely untouched masters these days.

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post #199 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

Some but its rather clean. I am pretty sure there are few movies with completely untouched masters these days.

but if Uni would have left well enough alone this BD would have topped the HD-DVD and D-Theater releases easily, it has a sharper pic with better detail but was slapped with a faint touch of DNR

-Gary
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post #200 of 231 Old 07-27-2008, 10:31 PM
 
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I would like to see some comparison pictures between the Egyptian writing on the Blu Ray, HD DVD AND the original special edition DVD version of The Mummy....All three would be good to compare just for completeness and proper reference.
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post #201 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx_75 View Post

I prefer the look of the BD. There is something going on below Jonathans ear on the HD DVD that is not there on the BD.

That may be true, but it's still unfortunate that Universal didn't allow the movie to look the best it has in HD throughout the entire movie, as they apparently did apply more DNR in some spots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

I would like to see some comparison pictures between the Egyptian writing on the Blu Ray, HD DVD AND the original special edition DVD version of The Mummy....All three would be good to compare just for completeness and proper reference.

Ditto this. Does anybody have the DVD version to do a screengrab to add to what Xylon already posted?

Brandon
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post #202 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That may be true, but it's still unfortunate that Universal didn't allow the movie to look the best it has in HD throughout the entire movie, as they apparently did apply more DNR in some spots.

Brandon

I'm sorry Brandon, but I don't think it’s apparent that they did apply more DNR. It's apparent that the DNR is more visible, but that is not undisputable evidence that proves more DNR has been applied.

When I look at the HD DVD grabs I see noise. Did you see what Amir did with the Patton pic? The sharpening and added noise gave the illusion of more detail and texture in Karl Malden's face. In effect that is what I believe is happening here.

That noise is absent from the BD encode so the DNR is more pronounced. While it’s possible that more DNR may have been applied it just doesn’t seem logical.

Why would Uni spend extra $$ to apply more DNR? They could’ve just ported the HD DVD encode over to BD. Or went back and applied more DNR to the HD DVD encode which would have saved money compared to creating a new encode with more DNR. Look at Uni’s track record with their HD DVD titles. Most of the bad encodes that I’m aware of were attributed to bad masters. If Uni were proponents of DNR then they would’ve used it across the board much like New Line.

Their catalog titles like The Thing look exceptional. KK is arguably a reference title and my favorite looking HDM title is still Children of Men. With a proper display it has more “looking through a window” moments than any other title that I’ve seen.

So people can believe whatever they want. Both arguments are plausible. I choose to believe that Uni did not add more DNR, and instead gave us an encode with less noise that has made the DNR more pronounced. Now which encode is more preferable is up to the viewer.

BTW have you watched it on BD?

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post #203 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroenen View Post

When I look at the HD DVD grabs I see noise. Did you see what Amir did with the Patton pic? The sharpening and added noise gave the illusion of more detail and texture in Karl Malden's face. In effect that is what I believe is happening here.

I'm not sure about that... Rachel Weisz is missing some freckles on the BRD side.
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post #204 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

I'm not sure about that... Rachel Weisz is missing some freckles on the BRD side.

If you're talking about the grab above then I don't see any missing freckles.

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post #205 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 12:06 PM
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I have to disagree. After switching back and forth I can see that not only are a few freckles filtered away but detail in her lips and several strands of hair.



I also decided that the BRD has extra EE added as well which makes some edges edgier but not really any more detailed. Universal blew it.
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post #206 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroenen View Post

BTW have you watched it on BD?

No I have not. I'll just go on record as having said that and that I'm not making any definitive judgements on whether more DNR was applied or not. I'm just going by these screencaps and it's obviously there. But if more DNR was not applied the cap with the heiroglyphics becomes unexplainable to me.

Brandon
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post #207 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 12:41 PM
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I disagree on both fronts Kram. I am seeing the same freckles. They appear slightly more defined on the HD DVD encode (same as the lips), but that could be due to added sharpening in the HD DVD encode. Of which the noise would reduce the appearance of more prominent edge halos from the added sharpening.

That’s also why I believe the EE halos are more pronounced on the BD encode. There is less noise in the BD encode.

BTW if you think that the entire encode is a DNR mess then you’re mistaken. There are scenes that exhibit excellent facial detail. There are moments that clearly show the large crater-like pores on Brendan’s face and the pimples (or should I say very fine bumps) on Rachel's face.

IMO the only thing that’s been blown here is Uni's decision to use a poor master instead of creating a new transfer.

So amigo, you can continue to believe that there has been more DNR added. I’m fine with that. At this point I do not believe that. Sorry.

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post #208 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

No I have not. I'll just go on record as having said that and that I'm not making any definitive judgements on whether more DNR was applied or not. I'm just going by these screencaps and it's obviously there. But if more DNR was not applied the cap with the heiroglyphics becomes unexplainable to me.

Brandon

That's good.

Whether here or in the Dark City thread et al too many people are making damning comments based on a few frames. Instead of basing comments after viewing said discs.

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post #209 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 12:59 PM
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On the HD DVD, her bottom lip has more detail too.

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post #210 of 231 Old 07-28-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kroenen View Post

I disagree on both fronts Kram. I am seeing the same freckles. They appear slightly more defined on the HD DVD encode (same as the lips), but that could be due to added sharpening in the HD DVD encode. Of which the noise would reduce the appearance of more prominent edge halos from the added sharpening.

That's also why I believe the EE halos are more pronounced on the BD encode. There is less noise in the BD encode.

BTW if you think that the entire encode is a DNR mess then you're mistaken. There are scenes that exhibit excellent facial detail. There are moments that clearly show the large crater-like pores on Brendan's face and the pimples (or should I say very fine bumps) on Rachel's face.

The only thing that's been blown here is Uni decision to use a poor master instead of creating a new transfer.

So Mark, you can continue to believe that there has been more DNR added. I'm fine with that. At this point I do not believe that. Sorry.

I see slight DNR throughout myself, it is there all the time

-Gary
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