The Descent - 2 different Blu-ray versions CONFIRMED (MPEG-2 vs AVC encoding) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Well what color is it then? Anyway, it doesn't even matter if we both see a different color. The disc I have matches the AUS capture, not the US one. If it was played on your monitor it would still match the AUS. The images themselves wouldn't change color - they would just be displayed on differently calibrated monitors. The calibration has nothing to do with it matching or not.

Are you playing the blu-ray on the same display as the one you're viewing the images on? If so, and you're using the same settings, then perhaps you do have the AUS version.

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post #362 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Seriously? I think most here would disagree and argue that calibration has lots to do with everything we view. If I was watching The Descent at Best Buy on some LCD set to Vivid it probably would look purple. Watch the same scene on a IFC calibrated Kuro Elite and tell me it looks the same.

I recently upgraded from a Sony 52XBR3 to a 58" Pany plasma and already feel I need to go back and retract posts I'd made about movies in this forum. I haven't even calibrated it yet but my point is that your display and how it is calibrated has everything to do with color (among many other things.)

I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I didn't mean that calibration has nothing to do with color or PQ, I meant that calibration has nothing to do with my disc matching the AUS version & that the color/PQ on the disc itself does not change because the set is calibrated - it only changes whats on the display. Basically, I'm saying that even though they appear to be a different color based on calibration, the differences in the comparison shots are the same to everyone. My disc & the AUS version would look the same on EVERYones disply - calibration makes no difference.

Does that make more sense?
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post #363 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I didn't mean that calibration has nothing to do with color or PQ, I meant that calibration has nothing to do with my disc matching the AUS version & that the color/PQ on the disc itself does not change because the set is calibrated - it only changes whats on the display. Basically, I'm saying that even though they appear to be a different color based on calibration, the differences in the comparison shots are the same to everyone. My disc & the AUS version would look the same on EVERYones disply - calibration makes no difference.

Does that make more sense?

Gotchya, sorry for jumping on your case. I'm interested to see if you thoughts are the same once you get you AUS version and compare. I honestly thought the differences between the MPEG2 and AVC versions would be nominal but once I got my copy and compared both I was pretty surprised to see the difference. Based on the screen caps that Whiggles posted I'd guess that the AUS version will be an even larger difference. I ordered mine from FBO but it said 7-21 days to ship

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post #364 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. I didn't mean that calibration has nothing to do with color or PQ, I meant that calibration has nothing to do with my disc matching the AUS version & that the color/PQ on the disc itself does not change because the set is calibrated - it only changes whats on the display. Basically, I'm saying that even though they appear to be a different color based on calibration, the differences in the comparison shots are the same to everyone. My disc & the AUS version would look the same on EVERYones disply - calibration makes no difference.

Does that make more sense?

I think we all just have a hard time believing your copy is different than everyone else's copy. The calibration seems like a logical explination.
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post #365 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkong650 View Post

I think you have to search for 'descent' rather than 'the descent' on dvdcrave to bring it up.

Both ways work now and didn't earlier. Odd - there must have been an issue or something.

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post #366 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

I think we all just have a hard time believing your copy is different than everyone else's copy. The calibration seems like a logical explination.

Still not understanding. LoL.

If one were to place a screen shot of my disc next to the AUS version they would look the same regardless of the individuals calibration... unless each pic were compared side by side on two different displays with different calibrations.

The calibration is irrelevant when making the comparison on any single display.

I'll be hooking up my PS3 to my PC later tonight for screen captures.
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post #367 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

Still not understanding. LoL.

If one were to place a screen shot of my disc next to the AUS version they would look the same regardless of the individuals calibration... unless each pic were compared side by side on two different displays with different calibrations.

The calibration is irrelevant when making the comparison on any single display.

I'll be hooking up my PS3 to my PC later tonight for screen captures.

No, I understand. I also completely disagree with your assessment of the AUS being washed out and showing a loss of detail. Judging by those screenshots alone, if you consider loss of detail, loss of picture do to it being more naturally black instead of overly brightened, then you are correct. The US is over brightened so much, there is loss of detail in some shots. I'm eagerly anticipating my AUS copy to arrive.

I just popped my US AVC copy in my PC (yes, I'm using the same display to watch movies AND look at those screengrabs) and I confirm it matches those shots Whiggles posted. I'll be anticipating your "screenshots".
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post #368 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

The calibration is irrelevant when making the comparison on any single display.

That makes sense when you are talking about direct screen grabs. Whiggles shots are directly from the disc. if you were to take the australian version put it into the perfect plasma, then take the domestic version put it into the perfect plasma, the differences would be the same as the screens whiggles posted.

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post #369 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 05:37 PM
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Not to get to off track here but d34dl1n3r may I ask what type of TV you have?

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post #370 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacklac View Post

No, I understand. I also completely disagree with your assessment of the AUS being washed out and showing a loss of detail. Judging by those screenshots alone, if you consider loss of detail, loss of picture do to it being more naturally black instead of overly brightened, then you are correct. The US is over brightened so much, there is loss of detail in some shots. I'm eagerly anticipating my AUS copy to arrive.

I just popped my US AVC copy in my PC (yes, I'm using the same display to watch movies AND look at those screengrabs) and I confirm it matches those shots Whiggles posted. I'll be anticipating your "screenshots".

The US release is not "brightened" in any way. It is what it is... minus the post-production color timing. So yes, detail is lost in the Australian version - that is, detail that was never supposed to be seen and detail that wasn't there if you saw it in the theaters.

I don't understand how anyone could call the Aus version washed out - it's the opposite - colors are (intentionally) over saturated and the contrast is pumped. To hear d34dl1n3r talk about the release, it almost sounds like he's getting the screenshots backwards more than anything else. Unless there actually is a third version of the disc in the US.
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post #371 of 793 Old 02-02-2009, 11:04 PM
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When did I say that the AUS version looks washed out? If I ever said that I 110% made a mistake when typing. Without looking back I remember saying that I felt it's over saturated.

Not getting the pics mixed up, :P

Going to get my PS3 now. The connection will only be S-Video going into a analog tv tuner card so the sharpness, etc. won't be up to par as with my tele but you'll get the idea.

I have a Samsung LN46A650.

EDIT: The image quality is complete crap due to the reasons stated above, but you can see that it highly resembles the AUS version. If I can find a way to get a direct capture from off the Samsung I will do so.

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post #372 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

When did I say that the AUS version looks washed out? If I ever said that I 110% made a mistake when typing. Without looking back I remember saying that I felt it's over saturated.

Not getting the pics mixed up, :P

Going to get my PS3 now. The connection will only be S-Video going into a analog tv tuner card so the sharpness, etc. won't be up to par as with my tele but you'll get the idea.

I have a Samsung LN46A650.

EDIT: The image quality is complete crap due to the reasons stated above, but you can see that it highly resembles the AUS version. If I can find a way to get a direct capture from off the Samsung I will do so.


Okay... um... what the hell? You're absolutely right - the colour and contrast levels in that capture are extremely close to the ones in my capture from the Australian disc, and are about a million miles away from my own US disc. Based on this evidence, I'd say you're absolutely right: somehow, you appear to have a US disc with a completely different colour grade from my own (and indeed many other people's, from the sounds of it). Would it be possible for you to do a capture of one of the red-tinted shots (e.g. my Examples 12 and 14)?

I should point out that you definitely don't have the Australian disc, since the total running time of 01:39:50 on your display definitely corresponds to the US disc rather than the Australian one (which is around a half-minute shorter thanks to the absence of the Lions Gate logo).

So, seriously, what's going on here? Is there then a THIRD version of the US release, this one with the UK DVD/Australian BD colour palette? Normally I'd say this was unlikely in the extreme, but then we do already have two confirmed versions of the disc masquerading with the same packaging and UPC... If this is indeed the case, I apologise for doubting you, but I hope you do understand how hard this was to believe from my POV without seeing the evidence for myself.

EDIT: Just for reference, my own captures again:

AUS:



US:

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post #373 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

When did I say that the AUS version looks washed out? If I ever said that I 110% made a mistake when typing. Without looking back I remember saying that I felt it's over saturated.

Not getting the pics mixed up, :P

Going to get my PS3 now. The connection will only be S-Video going into a analog tv tuner card so the sharpness, etc. won't be up to par as with my tele but you'll get the idea.

I have a Samsung LN46A650.

EDIT: The image quality is complete crap due to the reasons stated above, but you can see that it highly resembles the AUS version. If I can find a way to get a direct capture from off the Samsung I will do so.

Crazy...

Can you do pic #13 (the one where the dark haired girl has the flashlight on her head).

Either you have an AUS bd that was packaged into a US release, or Liongsate is one sneaky studio.

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post #374 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:27 AM
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Great, now I'm going to have to watch the R2 SD-DVD and US AVC BD again. Since I bought the R2 SD-DVD (a reference quality xfer) I watched it about 5 times and then since I got the BD I've watched it 3 or 4 times. Until this thread it never occurred to me that there would be a big difference, and I never trust my memory. Now that d34dl1n3r has thrown a monkey wrench into the fray... I did order the AUS BD from DVDCrave yesterday. They claim a Feb 9 stock date.

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post #375 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:33 AM
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I brought the PS3 back out to the living room but I'll bring it back in here sometime today or later this evening and do a couple more captures.
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post #376 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

I brought the PS3 back out to the living room but I'll bring it back in here sometime today or later this evening and do a couple more captures.

Any chance you could take a decently close-up photo of the disc. Perhaps there's something unique about it. Maybe someone who has the AUS photo can compare... Not sure if the disc artwork is different. It would help determine whether Lionsgate gave you a US disc or an AUS disc.

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post #377 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:50 AM
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Damnnation.

You have a disc that you're very happy with (US BD) and then something like this comes along, and now if you want to watch your original disc, knowing there's a radically different version out there that's probably better, its like an itch you can't scratch.

Hence I have ordered the Aussie version too. Oy the madness etc.
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post #378 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

Any chance you could take a decently close-up photo of the disc. Perhaps there's something unique about it. Maybe someone who has the AUS photo can compare... Not sure if the disc artwork is different. It would help determine whether Lionsgate gave you a US disc or an AUS disc.

d34dl1n3r's copy definitely isn't the AUS disc. For one thing, the running time on his PS3's OSD matches the US release, not the AUS version (which is missing the Lions Gate logo and is therefore slightly shorter).
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post #379 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 10:38 AM
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Wow, this is very curious indeed. How many damn different versions of this movie are out there?

I ordered my AUS copy from FBO but they said 7-21 days until expect to ship. Has anyone had experience with them? Would I be better off taking my chances with dvdcrave?

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post #380 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 11:01 AM
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Is it strange indeed. I think I might just hold off until more is learned about these releases. I'm also still curious which version is actually director approved.

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post #381 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 01:11 PM
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Do directors have to approve? I don't know. Although he was on the commentary track for the first disc release (R2 SD-DVD) so hopefully he watched what he was talking along with.

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post #382 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 01:44 PM
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I received my AVC copy today and tried it out, comparing the real time picture to the screen captures. On an ISF calibrated Kuro, the picture is somewhere in between the screen captures. The color is not as washed out as in the US captures, but not as contrasted as in the Aus caps. There is a lot more pop in the color while playing in real time and the dark scenes are plenty dark.

I still have the Aussie version on order, but from what I've seen of this AVC, it looks really good and much better than the captures make it out to be. If they were trying to make it realistic, I'm not sure why they would go all '300' with the color and contrast on the Aussie release, but I'm not the director so my opinion doesn't matter.
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post #383 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post

If they were trying to make it realistic, I'm not sure why they would go all '300' with the color and contrast on the Aussie release, but I'm not the director so my opinion doesn't matter.

Go back a page and look at the quotes I posted from the commentary and the behind the scenes material. The two things they mention most are 'hiding the set' and 'making the movie as dark as possible'.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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post #384 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post

I received my AVC copy today and tried it out, comparing the real time picture to the screen captures. On an ISF calibrated Kuro, the picture is somewhere in between the screen captures. The color is not as washed out as in the US captures, but not as contrasted as in the Aus caps. There is a lot more pop in the color while playing in real time and the dark scenes are plenty dark.

I still have the Aussie version on order, but from what I've seen of this AVC, it looks really good and much better than the captures make it out to be. If they were trying to make it realistic, I'm not sure why they would go all '300' with the color and contrast on the Aussie release, but I'm not the director so my opinion doesn't matter.

How are you looking at the US AVC screen cap? On another Kuro input calibrated the same as the BD input and you switch back and forth? Or, PC monitor?

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post #385 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 01:54 PM
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So, is the commentary on the U.S. version also on the AUS version?

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post #386 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by x43x View Post

the dark scenes are plenty dark.

You can thank the Kuro for that but like PooperScooper said you would have to be viewing the screen caps from the AUS version on the same display with the same calibration and room lighting to do a true apples to apples. After watching some scenes of my AVC copy on my 58" Pany plasma I find it much darker than the screen caps but I'm also looking at those on a uber bright craptastic dell LCD monitor at work so not quite a level field.

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post #387 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 04:47 PM
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I compared them using my MacBook. Just now though, I used my PS3 to find the screen caps on AVS. Then I put the movie in my Panny and switched back and forth. The US screen caps when viewed on the Kuro match the paused Blu-Ray on the same display. Both were viewed using the ISF Night video selection. When I view the screen caps on my computer however, they are way more washed out. So yeah, didn't really learn anything here
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post #388 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

Play the movie and press either "Select" if you have a PS3 or "Display" for just about any other player. One of the many things that you should see on the screen will be the video codec being used.

Sorry. My player doesn't seem to do that. Is there another way of telling if you have the U.S. AVC version or the U.S. MPEG2 version?

M.J.
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post #389 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 06:07 PM
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I just looked at the R2 DVD and US AVC BD. My Oppo and PS3 both connect to an Anthem D2 with HDMI to my Kuro. Both player outputs are displayed with the same calibrated settings. The R2 DVD is darker just like Whiggles posted. In fact, if I would have watched the R2 DVD before watching the US AVC BD, there's a good chance I would have never watched the US BD. It looks somewhat washed out for almost everything. I did take some pics, but they just show what Whiggles posted only with not-so-good PQ because of pausing the players.

Funny if don't know any better (or remember) .... The AUS BD will be very welcome.

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post #390 of 793 Old 02-03-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiggles View Post

Okay... um... what the hell? You're absolutely right - the colour and contrast levels in that capture are extremely close to the ones in my capture from the Australian disc, and are about a million miles away from my own US disc. Based on this evidence, I'd say you're absolutely right: somehow, you appear to have a US disc with a completely different colour grade from my own (and indeed many other people's, from the sounds of it).

I know what he did wrong.

The PS3 has a setting called RGB. I was playing around with that, I always have it set to Yc whatever, anyway I toggled between RGB limited and RGB full. Setting it to full darkens the entire picture, and on that particular shot of the picture - the RGB setting will make it looks very much like the oz version.

When I was switching between the two settings is was like switching between the screen caps you posted. But it won't black out the background leaving the characters in the foreground(like in the final shot where she's covered in blood). Most of it looks darker, but doesn't look like the icon BD.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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