"Once upon a dream . . . . " Sleeping Beauty comparison *PIX* - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 175 Old 10-13-2008, 04:21 PM
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Wow! I haven't seen any cell animations in Blu-ray as of yet (only animation movies I have are stop motion, ie Corpse Bride and Nightmare Before Christmas).

I was asking my wife if she wanted to get Sleeping Beauty, but she wasn't too enthusiastic about it. Maybe she'll change her mind after I show her some of those screenshots.

Thanks!
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post #92 of 175 Old 10-13-2008, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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post #93 of 175 Old 10-13-2008, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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post #94 of 175 Old 10-13-2008, 10:09 PM
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Sleeping Beauty widescreen for DVD - is this as good as 480p DVD gets?
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post #95 of 175 Old 10-13-2008, 10:23 PM
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Stop it Xylon, please stop posting shiny comparison pix! I give up, I'll pick "Sleeping Beauty" on Blu-ray as soon as the next paycheck clears. Happy now!?!?
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post #96 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post

Sleeping Beauty widescreen for DVD - is this as good as 480p DVD gets?

I don't think so. It seems to contain excessive ringing though most DVDs do.

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post #97 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post

Sleeping Beauty widescreen for DVD - is this as good as 480p DVD gets?

480p on DVD is encoded at 720x480. Which would have an aspect ratio of 1.5:1 with square pixels, but DVD uses rectangular pixels. Essentially, a DVD has about 350k pixels. Now BD on the other had was designed with square pixels so it uses the Full HD resolution of 1920x1080 which is roughly 2M pixels.

With SB, probably about half the pixels contain picture information so the DVD is probably about 175k pixels while the BD is 1M. That's a huge leap in quality. Granted the DVD could look a little better but still nothing is going to make up for a 5 to 6x increase in pixel information. Upscaling is not going to magically bring data back.

Case in point these screen caps from Xylon, show why BD is the ultimate consumer format.

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post #98 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post

Sleeping Beauty widescreen for DVD - is this as good as 480p DVD gets?

Definitely not. To add what everyone else has said, the effective resolution of that 720x480 DVD will be lower due to DCT pre-filtering (to ease the compression process).

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post #99 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:01 AM
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Look at all the aliasing in the Platinum Edition. DVD just can't handle that kind of detail.
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post #100 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

Has anybody found out why some scenes are out of focus? I wonder if some scenes had to be taken from different sources?

Xylon,

Can you post a Blu-ray picture from the scene where the prince is riding on his horse searching where the singing source (Sleeping Beauty) is coming from in the forest? This one scene is the most out of focus scene of any in the movie and a good example of what needs to be asked as to the technical reasons from "thoughs-who-may-know" as to why? Ongoing Original-Camera-Negative-captures?

This would be much appreciated as I don't have the blu-ray picture capture ability for the reference.

Thanks.

Paul
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post #101 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

Can you post a Blu-ray picture from the scene where the prince is riding on his horse searching where the singing source (Sleeping Beauty) is coming from in the forest? This one scene is the most out of focus scene of any in the movie and a good example of what needs to be asked as to the technical reasons from "thoughs-who-may-know" as to why? Ongoing Original-Camera-Negative-captures?

Yep. I also noticed how blurry that scene is.
To be exact, it's the scene where Prince Philip is trying to convince his horse to help him to look for the source of the singing, in exchange for an extra serving of oats & carrots.
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post #102 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

480p on DVD is encoded at 720x480. Which would have an aspect ratio of 1.5:1 with square pixels, but DVD uses rectangular pixels. Essentially, a DVD has about 350k pixels. Now BD on the other had was designed with square pixels so it uses the Full HD resolution of 1920x1080 which is roughly 2M pixels.

With SB, probably about half the pixels contain picture information so the DVD is probably about 175k pixels while the BD is 1M. That's a huge leap in quality. Granted the DVD could look a little better but still nothing is going to make up for a 5 to 6x increase in pixel information. Upscaling is not going to magically bring data back.

Case in point these screen caps from Xylon, show why BD is the ultimate consumer format.

Interesting. I had not thought about it like that before. Thanks
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post #103 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter View Post

Interesting. I had not thought about it like that before. Thanks

No problem. At least with BD and DVD it is straightforward. The big issue is now with DL services, cable and satellite providers claiming they provide HD while in many cases it is HD in name only.

Many DL services are claiming HD, but they are not only encoded at 720p, but also are bitstarved to keep the download file sizes manageable. Even cable and satellite are guilty of this to a point, bitstarving 1080i, or playing resolution games by transmitting signals at less than the full HD resolution.

The fact is that BD provides superior quality due to its bandwidth and storage capacity. The current PT Barnum, Steve Jobs, and other anti-physical media types don't want the consumer to know or hope the consumer is too stupid to care that digital delivery is still far below of what physical media can deliver. BD Live is already showing that even providing supplemental extras is causing problems. Enough to throw significant doubt that digital delivery is right around the corner as the standard delivery method.

Sorry I will stop my rant now. These new BD releases are just getting tough on my wallet.

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post #104 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

Because it isn't. Despite the fact that it's commonly called 24p, most HD/Blu-ray encodes still use the NTSC-derived frame rate of 23.976. Some discs are exactly 24.000 fps though.

Really?

Wow, now I'm wondering why that is. I would've thought in this age of high definition and new digital standards that all hdtv's would be able to display both 59.94i and 60i. So that's one less advantage that I thought blu-ray had over standard dvd.
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post #105 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 03:46 PM
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Got a lot of 60i content laying around you won't be able to play now?
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post #106 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Really?

Wow, now I'm wondering why that is. I would've thought in this age of high definition and new digital standards that all hdtv's would be able to display both 59.94i and 60i. So that's one less advantage that I thought blu-ray had over standard dvd.

You are not getting it. When someone says that the film speed is 24 fps, it is actually 23.97 fps. 23.97 fps is what is meant when someone is talking about 24 fps. It's much easier to say 24 fps (or p if you are talking about what's on the disc) than 23.97 all the time.

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post #107 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 06:46 PM
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No, I get it, I just don't get why it needs to still be going at the NTSC speed. I thought that was one of the main points of switching to hi-def.
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post #108 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:32 PM
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You are not getting it. When someone says that the film speed is 24 fps, it is actually 23.97 fps. 23.97 fps is what is meant when someone is talking about 24 fps.

No, actually it's you who aren't getting it. Film runs at a true 24FPS in the theater. The 23.976 frame rate for video involves slowing the actual 24FPS frame rate slightly to comply with the video specified frame rate.

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post #109 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:38 PM
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throwdown!

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post #110 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:46 PM
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I just watched this movie, and all I have to say is,

I could smell the colors...

And asking why we call it 24fps when it's really 23.97 is like asking why we call 720p TVs 720 p when they are really 768.
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post #111 of 175 Old 10-14-2008, 09:49 PM
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Get your popcorn.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #112 of 175 Old 10-15-2008, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Cornerstone View Post

And asking why we call it 24fps when it's really 23.97 is like .....

Except that isn't what I asked.

I was wondering why the blu-ray movie still needs to be going at the slowed-down speed. I thought that hdtv's weren't slaves to the old analog framerate. If all hdtv's can display material at 24.000 fps, then why can't the hd media be at 24.000?
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post #113 of 175 Old 10-15-2008, 10:57 AM
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I'm guessing there is still some legacy tie in the electronic clocking that comes from the wall outlet AC (which isn't "exactly" 60 Hz, either).

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
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post #114 of 175 Old 10-15-2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Except that isn't what I asked.

I was wondering why the blu-ray movie still needs to be going at the slowed-down speed. I thought that hdtv's weren't slaves to the old analog framerate. If all hdtv's can display material at 24.000 fps, then why can't the hd media be at 24.000?


Why are HDTV's capable of 24fps display while high def media can not have 24fps encodes? Same reason the prison commissary sells tomato soup in a can but prohibits inmates from heating it up. Just another mystery of life, my friend.
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post #115 of 175 Old 10-15-2008, 06:48 PM
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Broadcast DTV calls for 29.970, and 23.976 as standard frame rates. Since that standard predates BD, BD had no choice but to follow to be sure there were no compatibility issues on the display.

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post #116 of 175 Old 10-15-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

Broadcast DTV calls for 29.970, and 23.976 as standard frame rates. Since that standard predates BD, BD had no choice but to follow to be sure there were no compatibility issues on the display.

Vern

That makes sense... I guess i just don't get why .024 frames per second is a big deal......Weren't all dvd's encoded in 30fps? And the fact that blu-rays are 24fps one of the main advantage points?
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post #117 of 175 Old 10-16-2008, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Cornerstone View Post

That makes sense... I guess i just don't get why .024 frames per second is a big deal......Weren't all dvd's encoded in 30fps? And the fact that blu-rays are 24fps one of the main advantage points?

DVDs are 29.97. Virtually *all* digitally compressed content that was ever broadcasted or pressed on shiny discs has a framerate of whatever/1.001. Same even with the old VHS tapes.

The Blu-Ray standard does allow 24.000 to be used, though. And there are about 2-3 Blu-Ray discs which use this refresh rate. However, I doubt that there are many displays which properly support 24.000. Most displays most probably only support 23.976 because that's what (almost) all the source material was encoded in.
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post #118 of 175 Old 10-16-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

However, I doubt that there are many displays which properly support 24.000.

But I thought this wouldn't matter since hdtv's can display either 59.94i or exactly 60i. Maybe a lot of them can only do 59.94?
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post #119 of 175 Old 10-16-2008, 11:29 AM
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threads like this, (at least the framerate tangent part) give my wife all the ammo she needs to use to say that I am a major geek...
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post #120 of 175 Old 10-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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And on that note, is it just me or are we loosing a hair of picture information on either side of the dvd compared to the bd?
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