Band of Brothers DVD, HBO MPEG-2, HD DVD & Blu-ray comparison *PIX* - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

Warner has applied some form of filtering/DNR to EVERY movie they've ever released.

check out Every Which Way but Loose, Eraser, Blade Runner, Bonnie and Clyde, Dirty Harry, Magnum Force.....

you get my point, which is that is simply not true

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post #92 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 10:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

check out Every Which Way but Loose, Eraser, Blade Runner, Bonnie and Clyde, Dirty Harry, Magnum Force.....

you get my point, which is that is simply not true

-Gary

Sorry the wink loses me....You saying Eraser hasn't had DNR applied or has ?

Blade Runner - The Final Cut has had DNR applied and the original editions which are also out on Blu Ray look better if you forget the fixed effects shots for one moment. Can't answer for the rest of them except Eraser which i own.

I think Eraser has had substantial DNR applied.

let's not derail the thread though as this is about Band Of Brothers but i'd appreciate you responding to what you mean.
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post #93 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 10:27 AM
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Eraser looks weird.

Warner also put out the highly detailed HTWWW and Speed Racer.
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post #94 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Have you seen the HD DVD version?

nope. never was wiling to fork over $200. I haven't disagreed with the sentiment that the HD DVD set does look better. The pics here certainly suggest that it does.

I'm only here to combat the overreaction

I agree that it makes absolutely no sense to release a lesser transfer when a perfectly adequate one already exists.

Again, this is a fast-motion, low-light set. The colors are desaturated heavily, many things are intentionally washed-out. At the very least, the processing isn't as noticeable as it would be on a slower piece.
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post #95 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:04 AM
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I wonder what those of you who haven't yet, and possibly now REFUSE to watch the BD set would have thought had you watched it first with your own eyes before these comparison pics?

No doubt you would have noticed a difference having seen the HD DVD set; but I also believe there would be much less outcry against the effects of DNR...
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post #96 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Eraser looks weird.

Warner also put out the highly detailed HTWWW and Speed Racer.

That looks like a screenshot of Arnold in motion. Hence, it's not going to be sharp due to normal motion blur.

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post #97 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

check out Every Which Way but Loose, Eraser, Blade Runner, Bonnie and Clyde, Dirty Harry, Magnum Force.....

you get my point, which is that is simply not true

-Gary

I've seen all of those except Bonnie and Clyde and Eraser. Dirty Harry was the only movie I felt like had no DNR. However I also am inclined to think that it had heavier grain to begin with. I am not saying that they Pattonize every movie or that they don't look good. I am saying that I do think they apply a light grain filter to everything they release, sometimes in just select spots. I think that the majority of what Warner puts out is excellent and unlike many others, I certainly do not let a little DNR stop me from buying or enjoying any film.

For example, there is some DNR in select shots of Blade Runner. A clear example is when Decker is taking off in the spinner. There are some shots on AVS to prove it, comparing the final cut to one of the other cuts.

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post #98 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:41 AM
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I just watched Episodes 1 thru 8 of Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray. Fell asleep during Ep 9 hehe.

I have a Sony KDS-60A3000, an Onkyo 876 and a PS3 for the Blu-Ray player (amongst other stuff in the HT). The setup is ISF calibrated.

The sound quality in BoB Blu-Ray is stunning.

While everyone else watching seemed to think the picture quality was equally stunning, something about it looked "off" to me... less sharp around the edges than it should be.

I am no videophile, but if the "DNR" discussed in this thread has the effect of making certain scenes look fuzzy around the edges, then I don't like the effect of DNR at all.

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post #99 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira View Post

That looks like a screenshot of Arnold in motion. Hence, it's not going to be sharp due to normal motion blur.

I meant weird in general. It doesn't look horrible and crushes the dvd by a lot but still there's some kind of filtering going on.

Swordfish is another Warner title that I thought looked nice.
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post #100 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfamous View Post

I wonder what those of you who haven't yet, and possibly now REFUSE to watch the BD set would have thought had you watched it first with your own eyes before these comparison pics?

No doubt you would have noticed a difference having seen the HD DVD set; but I also believe there would be much less outcry against the effects of DNR...

I can't speak for anyone else, but it would seem that the uproar is not so much about the actual effects of DNR on any particular movie as it is about the use of DNR in the first place. The only "noise" in the image is that which was put there by the makers of the film, so the use of DNR does violate the original intent of the filmmakers. You can achieve more or less similar results by simply turning down the sharpness setting on your monitor or player. Many people do prefer a slightly softer image, and if the results are pleasing to you than by all means do so. The issue here is that the studio is making that decision for you and it cannot be "undone".

Even if we had never had the HD-DVD set to compare, the comparison of the broadcast image to the BD set reveals the DNR just as well.
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post #101 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebraMajor View Post

So I'll ask an obvious question:

Is there a Japanese Blu-ray release of BOB planned and if so, is the U.S. BR release (with DNR) being reused (because Japan is in the same region as U.S. right?) or will they use the existing Japanese HD-DVD master because Japan is a separate market?

My guess is the HD DVD master is entirely separate from what was used for the US Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, since I believe it was Toshiba who released the Japanese HD DVD set, I doubt they'll be interested in releasing on Blu-Ray.

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post #102 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post

My guess is the HD DVD master is entirely separate from what was used for the US Blu-Ray. Unfortunately, since I believe it was Toshiba who released the Japanese HD DVD set, I doubt they'll be interested in releasing on Blu-Ray.

Well it was a WB release, was it not? Pics on the back of the box say so. Doesn't that mean WB owns the master? Would Toshiba even factor in?
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post #103 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

check out Every Which Way but Loose, Eraser, Blade Runner, Bonnie and Clyde, Dirty Harry, Magnum Force.....

There's not another high quality source to compare them to, so you have no idea what they could have looked like.
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post #104 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebraMajor View Post

Well it was a WB release, was it not? Pics on the back of the box say so. Doesn't that mean WB owns the master? Would Toshiba even factor in?

My guess is that WB prefers the way the Blu Ray turned out if not they'ed have released the HD DVD encode like they did for every other title.

Band of Brothers is an amazing looking and sounding set. I have it DVRed from HBO HD and while the PQ is not much of an improvement (to me), the audio on Blu Ray makes it a must buy for me.
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post #105 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 04:06 PM
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I don't have the HD DVD set anymore, but I don't recall WB logos on it. Someone else will have to chime in who has it.

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post #106 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZebraMajor View Post

Well it was a WB release, was it not? Pics on the back of the box say so. Doesn't that mean WB owns the master? Would Toshiba even factor in?

No.

In Japan, Toshiba (under whatever their movie section is called...can't remember the name) released this in Japan NOT Warner
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post #107 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sporadic View Post

No.

In Japan, Toshiba (under whatever their movie section is called...can't remember the name) released this in Japan NOT Warner

My HD DVD set shows the release under Showgate, and I'm in Japan if anyone wants a set. Just re-watched my set last night. DTS-HD soundtrack is pretty darn good.

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post #108 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:05 PM
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Condescending posts, rants and off-topic posts removed.

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post #109 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:14 PM
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I understand and appreciate both of the well stated points of view of both 'mzupeman' and 'FoxyMulder'. I suppose, after it's all said and done, that I gravitate closer to the 'FoxyMulder' perspective. If noise isn't made...lots of it, in some cases, we'll never reach the level of quality we seek. The only way to know for sure, is to do and say nothing, and see where we are on the progress meter, a couple of years and hundreds of releases from now. I'm not willing to go that route. I prefer to make noise.

Maybe I'm just naive, but did anybody see this kind of shite coming down the pipe when hi-def software started up? This conflict, which seems to me, far more difficult and uncertain a battle than the OAR argument, never entered my mind at the outset of HD DVD and BD. I don't know about you folks, but it sure as hell blind-sided me, and the whole issue just pisses me off. It really ruins the hi-def era...one that we've eagerly waited for. It almost makes me wish that the hi-def era had never started. Almost...

I'm not simply referring to this title, but the whole DNR issue.
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post #110 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:16 PM
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wow grainalert!!

But the Blu-ray looks the best, not so much grain like the HBO and HD DVD, i hate this kind of grain, it just doenst look like HD! (except 300 grain of course, thats a nice style and fits to the movie)

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post #111 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

There's not another high quality source to compare them to, so you have no idea what they could have looked like.

In that case, I guess we can't ever judge the pictue quality of any release unless we have another high-quality source to directly compare them to.

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post #112 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:24 PM
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Who thinks this is AVC vs. VC-1 encoding artifact difference rather than true DNR? I seemed to recall that AVC adds some pseudo-grain to the picture and VC-1 tends to make things smoother looking.

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post #113 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenDepth View Post

wow grainalert!!

But the Blu-ray looks the best, not so much grain like the HBO and HD DVD, i hate this kind of grain, it just doenst look like HD! (except 300 grain of course, thats a nice style and fits to the movie)

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post #114 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:44 PM
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Gee, looks like my post disappeared.
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post #115 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 05:56 PM
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Gee, looks like my post disappeared.

read up 7 posts...
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post #116 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira View Post

In that case, I guess we can't ever judge the pictue quality of any release unless we have another high-quality source to directly compare them to.

Not that it would ever stop all the comedic posts that say:

"I won't buy this movie because it doesn't have lossless sound and more/less DNR."

The translation of the above? "I wasn't going to buy the movie anyway."

Seriously, if you really wanted a movie, wouldn't you buy the best available format?? You know, the one that's actually available today, not the mythical video-processed-just-the way-I-deem-it-should-be version? Or are you happy with the noticeably inferior audio and video of the SD DVD version? How long, exactly, are you going to hold your breath waiting for the more/less DNR'd version with the lossless sound, even though you wouldn't be able to tell the difference? Until the next format comes out?

Everyone who posts here wants the best audio and video. Everyone. We all want the best the formats can offer. When the differences have reached diminishing (read: non-perceptible) returns within the most recent technology and human perception, what's the point in denying yourself a movie that you REALLY want?

We get it. You don't like DNR...you don't like what YOU deem to be TOO MUCH processing, you don't like what YOU deem to be TOO LITTLE processing, you don't like the way a film was restored, you don't like the format, the codec used, or the lossy audio version, the packaging, etc....great.

Put the energy to writing to the studios instead of trying to convince others here that they shouldn't be enjoying the best available picture and sound that exists today, and how you think your little tantrum of refusing to buy a title you weren't going to buy anyway is actually accomplishing anything.

And please don't confuse those of us that want to enjoy the best audio and video available now with those who "don't care." We all want the best. If that magical encode doesn't exist, and chances are pretty good that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the exising version and said mythical version anyway, we're not condoning anything by buying it, we're enjoying a movie we wanted in its best presentation. The same people who say "I'm glad it's a niche" because it's small number of people in the game, what do you think happens to a niche format when its supporters actually refuse to support it?

Let's put this to rest. Although I'm sure no one will do it, and the people who scream the loudest about refusing to buy the under/over DNR'd movie or the one without the lossless track will be the quickest to refuse it, please set up this test:

A blind viewing where the test subject doesn't know if he/she's watching the HD DVD version or the BD version of Band of Brothers. How reliably do any of you REALLY think people will be able to tell the difference?

Another test where the test subject watches the HD DVD version of Transformers and the BD version of Transformers. Do you really think anyone will be able to differentiate which is which audio track is which?

Any takers? I'd think there'd be many with the all the righteous indignation thrown out here about how awful these movies look and sound...come on...prove it. If people are that upset, they'd want to set up this test, and take it, to prove their point.

Anyone? ...

*************************************************

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...with a bitrate meter and screencaps.
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post #117 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 06:07 PM
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Does the HD DVD version have the same extras like the Timeline and PiP?

I never would have noticed anything with the picture if these comparisons weren't brought up. I'm going through the series now, and I was just thinking to myself how fantastic they looked.

I can only imagine the sharp grittiness on the HD DVD versions. I love the grain. It brings out a sense of time of this era and the grittiness of war.

-David
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post #118 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILJG View Post

A blind viewing where the test subject doesn't know if he/she's watching the HD DVD version or the BD version of Band of Brothers. How reliably do any of you REALLY think people will be able to tell the difference?

The reason comparisons were made were because people noticed the DNR in the BD release in normal viewing. This alerted people to investigate with screenshots to confirm or deny.
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post #119 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbarayhick View Post

whats to joke about, the bluray version is inferior to the hddvd version. that is not funny at all is it...

"Inferior" is too strong a word. 99% of people would have a hard time telling the difference if they would not examine zoomed-in screenshots. At any rate, it is what it is and there's no other alternative for the majority of us who no longer/don't have an HD DVD player. The choice is DVD, or BD? The only reasonable choice, of course, is the BD. The purists may find something to complain about, but for the rest of us, let's sit back with a brewsky and enjoy.

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post #120 of 257 Old 11-16-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Sorry the wink loses me....You saying Eraser hasn't had DNR applied or has ?

Blade Runner - The Final Cut has had DNR applied and the original editions which are also out on Blu Ray look better if you forget the fixed effects shots for one moment. Can't answer for the rest of them except Eraser which i own.

I think Eraser has had substantial DNR applied.

let's not derail the thread though as this is about Band Of Brothers but i'd appreciate you responding to what you mean.

no DNR on Eraser, it is a Panavision Scope film and is soft, I would give it a 4 out of 5 video of I was reviewing

this crap is getting old on AVS, lookie something is soft like Batman Begins, well **** it must be DNR

give me a break people

-Gary
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