Band of Brothers DVD, HBO MPEG-2, HD DVD & Blu-ray comparison *PIX* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The log file for the HBO version is for the entire series. The file info for the HD DVD and Blu-ray is for the episode "Curahee"

HBO Mpeg-2

File size: 58.60 GB

Bitrate: 12.80 Mbps


Code:
Sequence Summary:

File Size Processed: 58.61 GB, Play Time: 10h:19m:37s
1920 x 1088, 29.97 fps (15.79 fps Telecine), 14.25 Mbps (12.80 Mbps Average).
Average Video Quality: 98.94 KB/Frame, 0.39 Bits/Pixel.
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 384 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB
50 of 587079 video frames found with errors.
52 of 1161794 audio frames found with errors.
1348216 corrupted video bytes in file.
0.000000 seconds of video timestamp gaps.
0.000000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps.

End of Log
HD DVD File size: 12.10 GB

Bitrate: ? mbps



Blu-ray File size: 17.10 GB

Bitrate: 27.74 mbps



Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00000.mpls                                                      VC-1    1:13:14 18,405,949,440  33,978,762,427  33.51   27.74   DTS-HD Master 5.1 2166Kbps (48kHz/16-bit) DTS-HD Hi-Res 1.0 96Kbps


DISC INFO:

Disc Size:      33,978,762,427 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00000.mpls
Size:           18,405,949,440 bytes
Length:         1:13:14 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  33.51 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00000.M2TS      18,405,949,440  1:13:14.139     0:00:00.000     1:13:14.139     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
VC-1 Video          27741 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 3
VC-1 Video          832 kbps        480p / 23.976fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 2
VC-1 Video          204 kbps        480p / 23.976fps / 4:3 / Advanced Profile 2

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         2166 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 2166kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 16-bit / 1536kbps)
Dolby Digital Audio             French          192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         192 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 192kbps
DTS-HD Audio                    English         96 kbps         1.0 / 48kHz / 96kbps
DTS-HD Audio                    English         96 kbps         1.0 / 48kHz / 96kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         31 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           English         33 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           French          29 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           French          2 kbps                          
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      29 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         29 kbps                         

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          ----            ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:04:06.246     22,697 kbps     55,236 kbps     00:00:02.252    32,133 kbps     00:02:21.183    30,704 kbps     00:02:16.511    118,334 bytes   876,818 bytes   00:02:54.966    
2               0:04:06.246     0:04:20.010     27,848 kbps     47,328 kbps     00:04:26.057    34,396 kbps     00:04:42.365    32,820 kbps     00:04:37.194    145,186 bytes   835,802 bytes   00:05:45.595    
3               0:08:26.256     0:15:18.084     29,255 kbps     44,293 kbps     00:11:53.421    35,053 kbps     00:09:28.693    33,388 kbps     00:09:24.564    152,520 bytes   700,666 bytes   00:08:40.395    
4               0:23:44.340     0:09:50.506     29,696 kbps     52,735 kbps     00:33:33.303    35,357 kbps     00:26:26.418    33,175 kbps     00:33:24.419    154,819 bytes   710,178 bytes   00:23:59.104    
5               0:33:34.846     0:09:00.665     28,600 kbps     49,762 kbps     00:36:20.762    35,295 kbps     00:36:16.966    33,368 kbps     00:41:45.670    149,106 bytes   723,436 bytes   00:39:03.216    
6               0:42:35.511     0:09:39.371     29,755 kbps     43,000 kbps     00:49:18.747    34,338 kbps     00:50:07.463    32,588 kbps     00:50:42.206    155,126 bytes   722,674 bytes   00:43:23.059    
7               0:52:14.882     0:17:18.204     28,932 kbps     49,454 kbps     01:01:19.968    37,982 kbps     01:06:42.040    34,717 kbps     01:06:42.999    150,837 bytes   764,117 bytes   00:59:53.715    
8               1:09:33.086     0:03:41.054     8,763 kbps      43,917 kbps     01:13:09.885    27,634 kbps     01:13:05.840    20,882 kbps     01:13:02.295    45,687 bytes    464,669 bytes   01:11:38.252    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Seconds         Bytes           Packets         Bitrate         
----            ---             ----            -------         -----           -------         -------         
00000.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0xEA            4394.14         15,237,477,849  82,876,016      27,741          
00000.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            4394.14         1,189,462,556   7,126,156       2,166           
00000.M2TS      6912 (0x1B00)   0xEA            4394.14         456,909,505     2,556,386       832             
00000.M2TS      6913 (0x1B01)   0xEA            4394.14         112,278,343     686,565         204             
00000.M2TS      6656 (0x1A00)   0xA2            4394.14         52,729,856      308,964         96              
00000.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            4394.14         17,150,088      97,976          31              
00000.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            4394.14         16,121,976      92,112          29              
00000.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            4394.14         16,050,545      91,809          29              
00000.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            4394.14         15,898,047      90,818          29              
00000.M2TS      4612 (0x1204)   0x90            4394.14         17,929,616      102,328         33              
00000.M2TS      4613 (0x1205)   0x90            4394.14         1,018,452       5,825           2               
00000.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x81            4394.14         105,459,456     686,585         192             
00000.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            4394.14         105,459,456     686,585         192             
00000.M2TS      6657 (0x1A01)   0xA2            4394.14         52,729,856      308,964         96


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post #4 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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post #9 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #11 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Remastered?

Yes

Let's all pretend that the HD DVD version does not exist and this "A" title is now available on HD. Its better than DVD in PQ and of course the AQ is reference quality. It should be good enough I think.




Back to reality . . . . . .


To those who already have the HD DVD version the PQ is closer to what the film makers intent including the HBO broadcast(setting aside the artifacts caused by low bitrates). Grainy and dirty look preserved. The Blu-ray is just a bit more smoother and cleaner on the early episodes. I still need to watch Episode 5-10. Does it get better or worse (Bastogne episode comes to mind)? In the early episodes I will compare the "grain and HF detail sucking" to the level of The Mummy Returns and U-571. It varies from scene to scene.

I am not going to say that skip this Blu-ray and buy the HD DVD because the format is dead and the price for the set is just too expensive. If you have the money and want the best PQ available then why not? The most disappointed group of people will be the ones who get watch the HD DVD version. Frustrating isn't it?

Finally a proper non-import version is finally out with English menu and extra features and lossless sound but you can't help but wonder what if Warner just left the DNR dial alone.


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post #13 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 06:05 AM
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Oh dear, where to get the DNR free HD DVDs now? (I'll pass completely)


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post #14 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 07:19 AM
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Oh, dear

DNR strikes again....
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post #15 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 07:34 AM
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I'd like to see some more screens from what I've read the DNR comes and goes...it seems to be substantial in these shots.
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post #16 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 07:53 AM
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oh ****!!



-Gary
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post #17 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:02 AM
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I've got all three versions, and I find the HD-DVD more detailed but the Blu is not bad in my opinion.
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post #18 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:05 AM
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Although I am passionately against DNR, we need some close-ups to really judge IMO. I see the DNR for sure, but I'm not seeing much difference in detail, and I don't see the waxiness. Perhaps I'm trying too hard to convince myself I don't need the $200 HD DVD set. In fact, none of the transfers are that awe-inspiring regardless. Maybe I've been watching HTWWW too much.

Xylon - What does it look like in motion?
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post #19 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:33 AM
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Universal

1. To add a layer of DNR to the Blu-ray Disc version of a movie or tv show
2. When a studio inadvertently increases the value of the HD-DVD or other previous version by releasing an inferior or compromised version on Blu-ray Disc

usage example: "HBO pulled a Universal with this release"

related entries: downgrade, dumb down, Warner, Pattonize, Traffic, Dracula

see also: Pan's Labyrinth, The Mummy, The Mummy Returns, U-571, The Thing
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post #20 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:37 AM
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Sooooo glad I decided to keep my HD DVD versions!

PSN: DaveS78
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post #21 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

I'd like to see some more screens from what I've read the DNR comes and goes...it seems to be substantial in these shots.

Yes it comes and goes. Personally it looks and sounds pretty good.
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post #22 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:44 AM
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Doesn´t seem to turn anything to wax to my eyes.
I´ve seen lot worse.
I´ll still buy and enjoy it. The world won´t come to an end to me

But some people will chop my head of for saying this
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post #23 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rr6966 View Post

I've got all three versions, and I find the HD-DVD more detailed but the Blu is not bad in my opinion.

Prepare to be ridiculed.

Brandon

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post #24 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 09:32 AM
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The DNR on the BD is slight, I don't think it reduces the overall detail much if at all. If the HD DVD PQ is a 9.9/10, the BD is a solid 9.8/10 imo.

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post #25 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 09:48 AM
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I wonder if the Blu-ray uses some DNR to trim down the grain a bit? I suppose you can debate it either way. I have the SD-DVD version and just got the Blu-ray set. I only watched a few minutes of the first episode but there is a significant difference. The Blu-ray is brighter and cleaner. I like the thumbnails with the real vets speaking as their counterparts are onscreen. The only drawback, and this is an issue with my Phillips BD player, is that I have to change the audio from primary to mixed. It downshifts the audio to DD5.1 but lets you hear the soundtrack and the commentary. It's not a biggie since I usually watch an episode normally first and then go back and watch it with the commentary on. Phillips is supposed to be working on a FW fix for this.
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post #26 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 10:43 AM
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Could the OP explain how exactly he ensured that the test was scientifically carried out? Grain quantity varies from frame to frame and as 35mm film stock produces 24 frames a second, I'm wondering how exactly he ensured that the same frame is being compared in each shot here? Grabbing from the same time-stamp is not enough.

Detail levels look identical to me, which makes me think that the transfers are nigh on the same. Talk of 'waxiness' is plainly ridiculous though, as anyone who has actually watched the set will know.
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post #27 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 10:49 AM
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The DNR is very light in screenshots, but how does it look in motion? It is that "stuck" grain or show other anomalies? Just because there is still grain doesn't mean it is rendered naturally.

What a shame. Warner is finally using a decent bitrate and they had to go muck with the image.
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post #28 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LouBarlow View Post

Could the OP explain how exactly he ensured that the test was scientifically carried out? Grain quantity varies from frame to frame and as 35mm film stock produces 24 frames a second, I'm wondering how exactly he ensured that the same frame is being compared in each shot here? Grabbing from the same time-stamp is not enough.

because xylon has been doing this for a while... and likely goes to the approximate timestamp then does a frame by frame search for the exact frame


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post #29 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 11:02 AM
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I've compared facial closeups of both versions, and the HD DVD clearly has more detail. To me, that's where it's easiest to pick up the difference in detail levels.
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post #30 of 257 Old 11-15-2008, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post

The DNR on the BD is slight, I don't think it reduces the overall detail much if at all. If the HD DVD PQ is a 9.9/10, the BD is a solid 9.8/10 imo.

agreed. super overreaction here based on selected STILL pics. I've watched all ten episodes. DNR is certainly present at places, but there is also grainy detail throughout. Episode 7 is a good example: both waxyness and high detail in certain shots of Wahlberg's character.

Take it how you will. Choose to react with pics that overemphasize the bad, or react on examples that overemphasize the good.
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