Are all Blu-ray movies in 1080p/24? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Do all Blu-ray movies play 1080p/24 or does the movie have to be encoded this way? I was watching Hellboy last night and couldn't get it to output 1080p/24, only 1080p/60. Does this vary from movie to movie?
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycloneTodd View Post

Do all Blu-ray movies play 1080p/24 or does the movie have to be encoded this way? I was watching Hellboy last night and couldn't get it to output 1080p/24, only 1080p/60. Does this vary from movie to movie?

1080p/24 is the standard. That doesn't, however, mean you can play it that way. You have to have a compatible display...most older displays (older than a couple of years) aren't compatible and most displays under $900 or so aren't compatible.
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 03:52 PM
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I think a few are 1080i/60, mostly low budget nature documentaries. Every film blu-ray whose files I've poked around in was encoded as 24p.
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 04:29 PM
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Masters of Horror series and Short Circuit were films encoded in 1080i. Most concert Blu-rays are also encoded in 1080i.

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post #5 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycloneTodd View Post

Do all Blu-ray movies play 1080p/24 or does the movie have to be encoded this way? I was watching Hellboy last night and couldn't get it to output 1080p/24, only 1080p/60. Does this vary from movie to movie?

This is probably a more complicated answer than you want to hear, but here it goes.

Movies that are produced for theatrical release in the US are shot at 24fps because that is the speed that exhibition projectors run.

Some movies and TV shows that are not meant to be theatrically exhibited are shot at 30fps because it's easier to transfer 30fps material to video without introducing telecine artifacts (such as 3:2 pulldown.) This can be important if special fx are to be composited in the footage during post production, because then the compositor doesn't have to deal with interlace artifacts.

However many TV shows still shoot film at 24fps to save film stock (you use more film at a higher speed).

Shows that originate on video are almost alway shot at 30fps (or 29.97 fps for NTSC broadcast).

Regardless of frame rate of the original material, the frame rate can be converted in downstream post production workflow for a number of reasons, not all of them good. And sometimes shows have mixed sources, so a decision needs to be made as to what frame rate the whole show will be finished in.

Sometimes a master will be created at a specific frame rate for one purpose and then used for an entirely different purpose.

And then there is the display issue with older TVs.

At any rate, content looks best if it can be displayed at its native frame rate. For big budget Hollywood movies, this means 24 fps. Concerts shot on video are almost always 30fps.
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 08:38 PM
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Don't feel too bad. Even if your display can't handle 24fps, it should still look damn good, mine does.

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post #7 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimby_99 View Post

Shows that originate on video are almost alway shot at 30fps (or 29.97 fps for NTSC broadcast).

Is 1080p30 (1920 x 1080 frame at 30 frames per second) more common than videos that are shot 1080i60 (1920 x 540 fields at 60 fields per second)?
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post #8 of 22 Old 11-19-2008, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

Is 1080p30 (1920 x 1080 frame at 30 frames per second) more common than videos that are shot 1080i60 (1920 x 540 fields at 60 fields per second)?

Not if they were shoot on video, were interlace has been a standard for years.

However some productions can use 30P. But even if they were shoot that way it not certain it was mastered that way.

Filmprojects running at 30fps, were usually aimed to be transfered to 60i. Otherwise most filmprojects used 24fps.

Videocameras that shoot 30P has been out some time. But if we take the Varicam as an example, it shoots 720P in variabel framerate (60P max) so many productions used either 24P or 60P since 720/60P is the best way of converting to 1080/60i.

Of course Sonys HDCAMs can shoot 1080/30P but I havnt heard of many production were they actually used that mode. 1080/24P or 1080/60i seems to be the most prefered options.

1080/30P would be best suitable for "filmlook" content that dont need a 24P master. But if you going international with your project 24P will be more suitable.
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post #9 of 22 Old 11-20-2008, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimby_99 View Post

At any rate, content looks best if it can be displayed at its native frame rate. For big budget Hollywood movies, this means 24 fps. Concerts shot on video are almost always 30fps.

Do you mean 60i instead of 30fps? I thought there was only about 1 concert shot at 30p.
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-20-2008, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Do you mean 60i instead of 30fps? I thought there was only about 1 concert shot at 30p.

In video, 30 fps can refer to both 60i and 30p content. The difference is whether the frame is composed of temporally displaced interlaced fields or not, but both are considered, in common post vernacular, 30 fps. This is because SMPTE time code, from an editing perspective, counts frames and not fields.

The NIN concert Blu-ray was shot at 30p while The Police concert Blu-ray was shot at 60i, but I consider them both 30 fps content.

(btw, I was production supervisor on both of these Blu-rays)
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post #11 of 22 Old 11-20-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimby_99 View Post

In video, 30 fps can refer to both 60i and 30p content. The difference is whether the frame is composed of temporally displaced interlaced fields or not, but both are considered, in common post vernacular, 30 fps. This is because SMPTE time code, from an editing perspective, counts frames and not fields.

The NIN concert Blu-ray was shot at 30p while The Police concert Blu-ray was shot at 60i, but I consider them both 30 fps content.

(btw, I was production supervisor on both of these Blu-rays)

But isn't there a big difference in how these two get deinterlaced? With modern displays (all progressive), shouldn't 60i (temporally unique fields) content be Bobbed (interpolated) and 30p content be Weaved (merged)? When Kris Deering says a Blu-ray player fails 1080p 2:2 deinterlacing, does he mean both 60i and 30p contents or just 30p content? When they fail, I presume that the player interpolates all 60i and 30p content, correct?

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post #12 of 22 Old 11-20-2008, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

But isn't there a big difference in how these two get deinterlaced?

Of course. But that wasn't the question I was answering. The question was whether "30 fps" refers to 30p or 60i. Both are 30fps.


Quote:


When Kris Deering says a Blu-ray player fails 1080p 2:2 deinterlacing, does he mean both 60i and 30p contents or just 30p content?


You should ask Kris what he means. I don't test players, and I wouldn't want to misinterpret his results.
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-04-2013, 10:26 PM
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I know this is an old thread but how can you tell what the framerate of the movie is, so you know the appropriate setting to choose on your TV?

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post #14 of 22 Old 06-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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nowadays, I believe that your TV will auto-detect the frame rate and resolution....I could be wrong though wink.gif

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post #15 of 22 Old 06-06-2013, 08:12 AM
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Even if the display supports 24p input and output, the BD player may not be setup to output it. Normally, you have to make sure the player is set to output "native", the format of the disc data. So, if you are not sure about the player setup or the display capabilities, check in the respective threads here for the BD player and/or the display.

And don't most BDs indicate the video format someplace on the back cover?

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post #16 of 22 Old 06-08-2013, 11:37 AM
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BD's often have the codec and occasionally the average bitrate on the back cover. They almost never have the FPS from what I've seen and I've got over 1000 of them. As for TVs auto-detecting the frame-rate and applying the appropriate mojo, that's hit or miss. Sometimes they do it and sometimes they don't. It varies with the content and hardware used. Samsung has a feature known as BD-Wise that works as part of CEC over HDMI and when used with compatible Samsung TVs, it forces the TV to use the appropriate signal processing for display between 30 and 24fps video when it comes from the Blu-Ray player. I use it for Blu-Ray, Media file playback, and Netflix/Hulu streaming and it works wonderfully.
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-10-2013, 12:26 AM
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If you want to split hairs, most BDs aren't encoded with either 1080p24 or 1080i30.


Most film-based BDs are encoded at 23.976p, even though the original film footage is generally shot at true 24.00 frames/second. TV series that are shot on film may use 23.976p for both capture and encoding though. And there are also some BDs which are captured and encoded at true 24p (which can be done with either film or digital video capture).


Digitally-captured content can be recorded at a variety of frame rates (23.976p, 24p, 29.97i, 30i, 30p...). If the intended output is Digital Cinema, then the content is typically captured at 24p, and then converted to 23.976p later on for broadcast and home video. If the content is going direct to home video or broadcast, then it's usually captured and encoded at 23.976p or 29.97i to maintain better compatibility with the old NTSC standard. (Though some may still prefer to capture at 24p for various workflow reasons.)


Current Blu-ray players can handle video encoded with frame rates as high as 1080p60 though. I put a 1080p60 video file on a USB drive, and it played just fine on my Sony S390 player to a 1080i CRT. Motion looked perfectly smooth and judder-free. (I probably should've encoded at 59.94p though to insure no dropped frames.) 1080p60 is not part of the official Blu-ray Disc spec though.

 

This is in the US (Region A) btw. Things work a bit differently in Europe.


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post #18 of 22 Old 06-10-2013, 11:31 AM
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1080p30 and 1080p29.97 are not part of the official BD spec either, according to Wikipedia...

 

 

Quote:
Officially, progressive scan video can go up to 1920×1080 pixel resolution at 24 frames per second, or up to 59.94 frames per second at a resolution of 1280×720 pixels.[115]

 

1080i30 is not listed in the white paper referenced in the quote above either. The only field rate shown for 1080i is 59.94 (aka 29.97i frames/sec).


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post #19 of 22 Old 06-11-2013, 04:01 PM
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Here's a slightly more recent version (from July 2011) of the BD-ROM Audio Visual white paper mentioned above, which contains more detailed info on encoding 3D content for Blu-ray (and other 3D apps) in Annex A:

 

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM-AV-WhitePaper_110712.pdf

 

Alot of the tech-talk in Annex A goes over my head. But unlike the specs for 2D video, which allow some flexibility in the frames rates (e.g. 23.976p, 24p or 29.97i frames/sec for 1080-resolution video), the specs for 3D content appear more restrictive, and only include 3 video modes altogether: 1080p at 23.976 frames/sec, and 720p at 59.94 or 50 frames/sec.

 

720p50 is mainly for Europe (and other areas outside the US?) though, which really leaves only two modes for 3D Blu-ray content in the US: either 1080p23.976 or 720p59.94.


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post #20 of 22 Old 06-17-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

I know this is an old thread but how can you tell what the framerate of the movie is, so you know the appropriate setting to choose on your TV?
You can tell the encoding format of the video if you have a Blu-ray player that will tell you that info, like on the display option.
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post #21 of 22 Old 07-05-2013, 10:56 PM
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My Sony S390 only seems to show the frame or field rate of the HDMI output, which is not always the same as the frame rate of the video content. And it rounds the values to the nearest integer.

 

If my HDTV had 24p support (and the player was properly configured for it), then I'm guessin it would indicate "1080p24" when playing film-based Blu-rays encoded at 23.976 frames/sec, and switch back to "1080p60" for video-based content encoded at 29.97i frames/sec. That's not really somethin I can verify though, because neither of my HD displays support 24p.


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post #22 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 02:02 PM
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Most Theatrical movies regardless of Region should be 1080P/24. Should be but you never know. TV Movies on the other hand could be 1080i/60 for Region A. For Regions B & C 1080i/50. I recently purchased "Parades End" which was in 1080i/50. A Region-Free Blu-ray player will up-convert the 1080i/50 to 1080P/24 which gets transmitted to the TV. Parades End looked great.
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