"The Dark Knight" PQ issues. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 09:48 AM
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I agree, everyone should look at the images he posted in that review. Do THOSE look horrible too?

They look soft but that is probably due to the jpeg compression. As usual we will probably have to wait for Xylon in order to get proper screen caps.
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post #452 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

In my case PQ will influence my purchase regardless how much I like the movie. If PQ is not up to par I simply will not buy it. I did not spend the thousands of dollars on my system to watch VHS PQ.

Again, being a little over-dramatic, aren't you? Do you seriously believe this title is anywhere near VHS PQ? Or anywhere near DVD PQ, even?


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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

It is sad there is not one on-line BD review site we can count on for delivering truthful candid PQ without watering it down. They ether miss it all together because they are watching on a small display or they are scared to say anything to harsh in fear of losing their audience or free titles.

That's a disappointing statement, coming from you. For you to claim everyone else gets it wrong by watering it down is pretty unprofessional. To then say they're all either ill-equipped or motivated by their audience size or free titles makes it even more disappointing.

Do you really believe that? Did you really mean that, when you said "not one on-line" BD reviewer can be counted on? Really? Not a single one?

I really do hope you didn't really mean to post something that negatively sweeping, and what could be construed as arrogant by insinuating only you, and the people here, have the proper equipment and sincerity to do "proper reviews."

Please tell me that's not what you really meant.

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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Many people including myself who put PQ first rely on these reports before titles are due to ship as it saves them money. In my case this would have been a rental..this is not the title I would use to show off my system or BD as a technology.
Again the point of this thread is PQ as it states in its title.
If this thread covered up the issues telling everyone to run out and buy it that would be an injustice.

You're right, the title of the thread is about PQ, that's fair. But I think it's also a fair statement that many people buy a movie because they really liked it and want to watch it again. I'd say just as many people put the actual quality or their approval of the movie itself first, and don't purchase a title solely because of its PQ.

There are some horribly BAD movies that have some of the best PQ/AQ around. If showing off your system is a priority for you, then really bad movies like those, or any movie for that matter, where the sole criteria is just PQ and AQ are certainly your purchasing perogative.

Yes, giving a horrible-looking movie the PQ thumbs up is an injustice. However, when a movie might still look pretty damn good, the mass panic caused by a few screenshots and other opinions (not that that was your intention in doing so) which can lead to people NOT buying a title isn't exactly fair, either.

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post #453 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

In my case PQ will influence my purchase regardless how much I like the movie. If PQ is not up to par I simply will not buy it.
I did not spend the thousands of dollars on my system to watch VHS PQ.

It is sad there is not one on-line BD review site we can count on for delivering repeatable truthful candid PQ reports without watering it down. They ether miss it all together because they are watching on a small display or they are scared to say anything to harsh in fear of losing their audience or free titles.

Many people including myself who put PQ first rely on these reports before titles are due to ship. In my case this would have been a rental..it is not the title I would use to show off my system or BD as the reference HD source technology.

Again the point of this thread is PQ as it states in its title.
If this thread covered up the issues telling everyone to run out and buy it that would be an injustice.

I'm glad to have threads like this. TDK was going to be a blind buy for me (I haven't seen the film yet), but now I am going to rent it first and then decide if the PQ is worth the buy.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #454 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ILJG View Post

However, when a movie might still look pretty damn good, the mass panic caused by a few screenshots and other opinions (not that that was your intention in doing so) which can lead to people NOT buying a title isn't exactly fair, either.

I think you need to take that one up with those posting screen caps. If you read my comments I think I have been fair in saying more then once this will look good on most smaller displays and not the worse case I have seen. I do agree in this case I would not hold off buying this title, I still enjoyed the movie very much and have screened it multiple times now.

My ultimate wish would be for some QC standard that had to be meant by all studios in the authoring process using the BD platform. At this point they all work independent making each purchase for us a roll of the dice. I assure you EE or DNR was not on the original print, someone decided to put it there. I would prefer to use the sharpness control on my TV letting me decide how much to apply.
For the most part I have been happy with the quality of transfers I have purchased lately which really makes those that fall short really stand out especially when its a long awaited block buster.
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post #455 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I assure you EE or DNR was not on the original print, someone decided to put it there.

Did you see an IMAX film print? A lot of people are saying DNR was obvious on the 35mm footage, upscaled for IMAX.

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post #456 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I'm glad to have threads like this. TDK was going to be a blind buy for me (I haven't seen the film yet), but now I am going to rent it first and then decide if the PQ is worth the buy.

Shouldn't the quality of the film itself weigh just as much - if not more - than the tech specs?

I recommend you rent it first anyway since you haven't seen it. You may not even like it.

But I guarantee the PQ will not be as "bad" as people would like you to believe...
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post #457 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

Shouldn't the quality of the film itself weigh just as much - if not more - than the tech specs?

I recommend you rent it first anyway since you haven't seen it. You may not even like it.

But I guarantee the PQ will not be as "bad" as people would like you to believe...

I'm sorry, but I don't believe I said anything about tech specs.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #458 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:


Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
In my case PQ will influence my purchase regardless how much I like the movie. If PQ is not up to par I simply will not buy it. I did not spend the thousands of dollars on my system to watch VHS PQ.

Again, being a little over-dramatic, aren't you? Do you seriously believe this title is anywhere near VHS PQ? Or anywhere near DVD PQ, even?

Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think he was referring to TDK as looking like VHS, but a general statement about quality and not being worth buying if certain expectations aren't met.
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post #459 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:09 AM
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It is obvious to me from reading this thread that there are many on this forum who care deeply about PQ, and I appreciate their feedback. There are also others who argue that "might still look pretty damn good" is good enough, and who are we to say that he is wrong. And then there are those that argue simply being better than the DVD is good enough, and there is nothing wrong with such standards. What is important is that the information is out there, and we can each individually decide whether a title is worth buying (so as not to waste money), or for that matter, is even worth renting (wasting time).

In particular I am glad that members like Alan Gouger are around who feels that PQ is just as or more important than the movie. While I don't agree with that, I can appreciate where he is coming from. Just because a movie is good or bad should not preclude it from having the very best PQ (or for that matter AQ).
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post #460 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

I can hit a button to switch between the two ratios but there is still lag time between that switch where anyone over for the movie would yell at me and say WTF are you doing

Try just leaving it in 2.35:1 the whole time. I could be mistaken, but I believe the IMAX footage was framed so that cropping the top and bottom would still maintain suitable framing for 35mm theaters. Try that and see how it looks.
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post #461 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I'm sorry, but I don't believe I said anything about tech specs.

Really? I guess I misinterpreted the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I'm glad to have threads like this. TDK was going to be a blind buy for me (I haven't seen the film yet), but now I am going to rent it first and then decide if the PQ is worth the buy.

But I guess when we have people here saying it looks like VHS there is an apparent disconnect.
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post #462 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

But I guarantee the PQ will not be as "bad" as people would like you to believe...

Hell no its not. Some guys here are painting a picture like this is a tragedy, pffft, hardly. I think it looks quite nice. Granted I've only skipped around, but from my normal viewing spot @ 12' away from a calibrated 61" LED it looks great, have yet to see anything leap out as a negative, looks very clean, detailed and rich, have not seen any ringing/halo's thus far, nor have I noticed DNR, seeing a fine layer of grain actually, pores are still pores, etc. Yeah, I suppose as someone said, it could come off as a little on the sterile side vs natural, but it still looks nice, Christ, some of it is downright striking! Not sure what all the fus has been about the AR changes either, other than the "full" scences looking better than the 2:35 (or whatever it is) stuff to my eyes, its done well, a nifty touch clearly intended for dramatic reasons and I believe that flow works well here.

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post #463 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

It is obvious to me from reading this thread that there are many on this forum who care deeply about PQ, and I appreciate their feedback. There are also others who argue that "might still look pretty damn good" is good enough, and who are we to say that he is wrong. What is important is that the information is out there, and we can each individually decide whether a title is worth buying (so as not to waste money), or for that matter, is even worth renting (wasting time). In particular I am glad that members like Alan Gouger are around who feels that PQ is just as or more important than the movie. While I don't agree with that, I can appreciate where he is coming from - just because a movie is good should not preclude it from having the very best PQ (or for that matter AQ).

But what does this lead to? Buying the DVD instead of the bluray because the bluray wasn't "perfect"?

I would bet the bluray will look better than the DVD...so the question comes down to if the bluray offers enough overall value proposition over the DVD. Given that this title will have lossless audio - that is usually enough to sway me.

And if you spent thousands on your gear, what is $10 more for the bluray version, which, however much flawed, will still be superior to the DVD version.

I just don't see where this leads to - intentionally disregarding the imperfect bluray version for the even more imperfect DVD version?
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post #464 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

Really? I guess I misinterpreted the following:


But I guess when we have people here saying it looks like VHS there is an apparent disconnect.

I said I want to view the title before deciding if I would buy it. PQ is important to me. What about that do you not understand? What about that has anything to do with tech specs?

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #465 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:28 AM
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i know this is purely PQ issues n such...but can someone make a passing comment about the audio??? (for those of us concered about that too)
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post #466 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:33 AM
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As for me, the movie itself is paramount. While it may not be everything we were hoping PQ wise (I have yet to hear any compaint about the audio), it will still be light years ahead of the SD-DVD. I waited on Burton's '89 Batman on SD, as the reviews on that one were not kind on its initial release in '97 (launch). Warner didn't give a proper special edition until relatively recently (Oct 2005), and given how quickly HD downloads are becoming popular, Warner's redeux might be limited to DRM-plagued downloads (more so than blu-ray itself), which I will have nothing to do with (there is a reason my player is 1.1). I am soooo ready for this release....

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post #467 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

In my case PQ will influence my purchase regardless how much I like the movie. If PQ is not up to par I simply will not buy it.
I did not spend the thousands of dollars on my system to watch VHS PQ.

It is sad there is not one on-line BD review site we can count on for delivering repeatable truthful candid PQ reports without watering it down. They ether miss it all together because they are watching on a small display or they are scared to say anything to harsh in fear of losing their audience or free titles.

Many people including myself who put PQ first rely on these reports before titles are due to ship. In my case this would have been a rental..it is not the title I would use to show off my system or BD as the reference HD source technology.

Again the point of this thread is PQ as it states in its title.
If this thread covered up the issues telling everyone to run out and buy it that would be an injustice.

If you are looking to sell, make me a deal and I will buy your copy

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post #468 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I won't form a complete opinion until I watch this on my set-up in a couple of weeks, but those DVD beaver screenshots are usually very telling of how it's going to look at home. From what I see, very discouraging. The release looks very electronic and processed - even the trailer shots someone in this thread posted look much more analog and natural.


My eyeballs must be broken with a combination of "ignorance is bliss" as those screenshots look fantastic to me

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post #469 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

Franin and toe did you guys see krams comparison pic on 13? It could look so much better.

Alan do you think you could put the caps on first post so everyone can find them?

Yes, and I think this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion honestly. However, I am no expert (which I am glad about as ignorance is bliss it seems with PQ), but I know what my eyes like and dont like and if the dvdbeaver shots are accurate, I am VERY satisfied with the PQ on this release. I think this release in particular is getting way more scrutinized because it is the biggest BR release this year hands down. Could it look better, sure, but this is the best presentation at the moment easily I am sure, and I am not going to let a few minor PQ issues detract from my enjoyment of this movie and BR disc.

Any of you guys who are as unhappy as you say you are will CERTAINLY not want to watch this tragedy again, so please PM me and I will buy this from you for a good price. Sounds like we will both be doing eachother a favor

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post #470 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by toe View Post

yes, and i think this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion honestly. However, i am no expert (which i am glad about as ignorance is bliss it seems with pq), but i know what my eyes like and dont like and if the dvdbeaver shots are accurate, i am very satisfied with the pq on this release. I think this release in particular is getting way more scrutinized because it is the biggest br release this year hands down. Could it look better, sure, but this is the best presentation at the moment easily i am sure, and i am not going to let a few minor pq issues detract from my enjoyment of this movie and br disc.

+1

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post #471 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:26 PM
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to me it looks a lot like I am legend. the PQ is very solid. facial and overall detail is better than BB. the truehd track is captivating. I think some people were expecting God to have done the transfer. seriously. it looks good to me. i'll watch it again tonight.
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post #472 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Yes, and I think this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion honestly. However, I am no expert (which I am glad about as ignorance is bliss it seems with PQ), but I know what my eyes like and dont like and if the dvdbeaver shots are accurate, I am VERY satisfied with the PQ on this release. I think this release in particular is getting way more scrutinized because it is the biggest BR release this year hands down. Could it look better, sure, but this is the best presentation at the moment easily I am sure, and I am not going to let a few minor PQ issues detract from my enjoyment of this movie and BR disc.

Any of you guys who are as unhappy as you say you are will CERTAINLY not want to watch this tragedy again, so please PM me and I will buy this from you for a good price. Sounds like we will both be doing eachother a favor

If the edge enhancement is as bad as the pics suggest then i will indeed sell you my copy.....I'll reserve judgment though until i have seen it but lets all at least admit that any EE on a high definition release of the fourth biggest film of all time is just not on and Warner really should have lavished more care and attention on this one. Regardless of anything else lets just admit EE shouldn't be there even if it doesn't bother you.
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post #473 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:28 PM
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lets all at least admit that any EE on a high definition release of the fourth biggest film of all time is just not on and Warner really should have lavished more care and attention on this one. Regardless of anything else lets just admit EE shouldn't be there even if it doesn't bother you.

I can sign onto that one!

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post #474 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:28 PM
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Man those screen shots look horrible. Dark City wasnt this bad. Pre-order cancelled.
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post #475 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Yes, and I think this whole thing is being blown WAY out of proportion honestly. However, I am no expert (which I am glad about as ignorance is bliss it seems with PQ), but I know what my eyes like and dont like and if the dvdbeaver shots are accurate, I am VERY satisfied with the PQ on this release. I think this release in particular is getting way more scrutinized because it is the biggest BR release this year hands down. Could it look better, sure, but this is the best presentation at the moment easily I am sure, and I am not going to let a few minor PQ issues detract from my enjoyment of this movie and BR disc.

Any of you guys who are as unhappy as you say you are will CERTAINLY not want to watch this tragedy again, so please PM me and I will buy this from you for a good price. Sounds like we will both be doing eachother a favor

Agreed. After reading many of the comments in this thread I was expecting some sort of mess but then saw the DVDBeaver score (9/10) and saw the screencaps and I thought they looked good (although there are a few that look disappointing). I cannot imagine passing up the Blu-Ray for the DVD version or some HD-lite download. I have noticed similar comments (usually from the same people) in the Baraka thread as well.
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post #476 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:33 PM
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Man those screen shots look horrible. Dark City want this bad. Pre-order cancelled.

Exactly. I suspect everyone will try to send theirs back if they are not able to cancel in time.
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post #477 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mdk2007 View Post

i know this is purely PQ issues n such...but can someone make a passing comment about the audio??? (for those of us concered about that too)

...how about the fact that the thing could look like garbage and =still= be worth buying?

Oh, right. VHS arguments above.

Preorders canceled due to arbitrary screencaps viewed on computer monitors, or negative hyperbole based on a few scenes - this hobby has officially gone nuts.

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post #478 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:37 PM
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The BD looks nothing like those bloody screenshots! One of my good friends splashed more money than I'd bother with, to get this early in the UK. He was a bit dismayed to read this thread before even watching the actual disc. Anyway, I went over to his place after work today for impressions and well... People are talking bollocks, quite frankly. Fair enough, it was only viewed on a 50 inch Kuro, but the sheer bile spouted here over here by the usual suspects, has been verging on hysteria. The usual suspects, that I don't even believe actually watch movies, they can't do, they don't have the time, given all the endless spec charts they spend their time typing.

I'd like more impressions here from people that actually own the disc, not the usual screenshot drama queens,(OMG, PRE-ORDER CANCELLED!!). I don't think the Beaver would have drooled over the PQ if it looked as bad as those screens, no matter how much he liked the movie.

For f**k sake people, rent it and decide youselves!
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post #479 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain View Post

They look soft but that is probably due to the jpeg compression. As usual we will probably have to wait for Xylon in order to get proper screen caps.

Having looked over DVDBeavers screen caps I also observed that the pix have lost some detail due to compression, at least I think so. Aside from compression I do note some anomalies that makes me wonder what exactly is causing them.

Just will have to wait and see until I can watch it for myself.

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post #480 of 1074 Old 11-24-2008, 12:40 PM
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I have to admit, some of thscreenshots on the DVD Beaver review are disappointing, almost blurry (the one of Morgan Freeman in-particular). Still going to buy it though. Typically how accurate are the DVD Beaver screenshots?

Also, what's up with giving the audio a 10/8? Is that a typo, or are they implying it is just so good it gets two points over the maximum?

My Blu-ray collectionhttp://c.mymovies.dk/keithtalent/

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