Gulliver's Travels 1.33:1 only please! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 10:09 AM
 
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Seems the aspect ratio isn't the only issue with this transfer.

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/
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post #62 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 10:28 AM
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**Sigh**

Don't know how I missed this thread before, but I'm glad I found it. I've cancelled my Amazon order and I'll send Mr. Gurlitz a polite observation on their concept of restoration. Really too bad.....I was looking forward to this title.
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post #63 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 10:40 AM
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It's a poster child for how excessive DNR can damage an animated film. Just look at how some of the edges are blurred, how the black line blurs into gray. Well, they're all blurry, but some are more so than others.

Also, I'm not familiar with this film, but do some of those shots look kinda stretched?
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post #64 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 11:45 AM
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"Original 35mm" my ass. Looks like VHS

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...ls_blu-ray.htm

There are better public domain versions on youtube than this crappy BD
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post #65 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 11:56 AM
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Truly, that is the most disgusting Blu-ray presentation I have ever seen. It would have looked like crap even for DVD.

The bit about it being restored from the original 35mm source is like a bad joke. The look on this Blu-ray could probably have been achieved by filtering the heck out of a decades old SD analogue master tape.

I agree with the comments that garbage like this should not be allowed, and I too am sick of people using age as an excuse for just about anything. No, not every movie has original negatives in perfect condition or warrants an expensive photochemical and/or digital restoration. But given a proper HD scan of the material available, no amount of grain, dirt and flickering could ever make a title look as poor as this.
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post #66 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 12:01 PM
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Someone should sue Koch Vision for this travesty!
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post #67 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 12:15 PM
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Wow....those screenshots look beyond pathetic. It seems like upscaled and stretched VHS material "fitted" for 16:9 displays IMO. Yes, they even look horrible for DVD.

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post #68 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 12:35 PM
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Yeah think it´s BOTH stretched and and a bit cropped.
The BDA should BAN them from EVER releasing ANYTHING on BD again.
I mean, there must be SOME kind of quality control you must pass to release a movie on BD??
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post #69 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 02:19 PM
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what a disaster.
screw you Koch.
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post #70 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 04:50 PM
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The dvdbeaver review shows that there is every reason to believe that this is an ANALOG standard definition master upconverted and smoothed to remove artifacts from the upconversion. It is more disgraceful than the age-old traffic fiasco in that it actually is from a not particularly good sd master! There is color bleeding, saturation inconsistency, an enormous mushy lack of detail apparent even in dvd size downconverts, and also appears to have been psychotically mushed up to remove analog video mosaic aliasing. We've all seen crappy laserdiscs and vhs on pd dvd before, it looks like that but genuinely with less detail, like the covers of most pd dvds which use images cropped from screenshots from the film uprezzed and smoothed to look like artwork. It pisses me off it really does.
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post #71 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 04:52 PM
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I'm sorry for the rant. The incompetence of the company angered me.
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post #72 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 05:29 PM
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I´m pissed of too.
I feel so sorry for all those who buys this disc with no knowledge about the crappy video quality.
I personally would call the cops on Koch

OR call Chuck Norris to beat the **** out of them

This is a SCAM!!
The mentioning about a remaster from the original 35mm is a LIE!!

This is the first time I´ve ever heard about the company, and I´m sure as hell not gonna touch ANYTHING coming from them in the future either.
It angers me that great companys like BCI/Eclipse (AWESOME remasters of old shows and movies) had to close doors and **** like Koch survives
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post #73 of 202 Old 03-08-2009, 08:08 PM
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I'm sure it was transfered from a 35mm print... circa 1995.

Anchor Bay pulled the same bullcrap mentioning "archival film masters" when they upscaled their old LD transfers of Tenebrae and Phenomena. Sure they were taken from archival film masters, what else would a DVD transfer be taken from? Pre-record VHS? A 'grindhouse' quality theatrical print? At least AB wasn't using composite transfers, let alone releasing them on Blu-ray!

These screenshots have really set a new low. I really hope this thing gets recalled and the words "Upscaled from LD" are added to the cover.
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post #74 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 03:13 AM
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I´m am actually THIS CLOSE to writing Dan Gurlitz an very angry letter.
But considering my temper and all the cursing and threats that letter would include, I would probably be hunted down by the FBI and thrown into jail för life
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post #75 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 04:41 AM
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i could always send them a mail in german if anyone is interested.

this is just travesty. it sickens the eye and stomach.

hopefully these people are not in charge of metropolis. because this need to stop. it is indeed a criminal offense against the eyes and against the people like in disney that take to much care into restoring classic animation movies.

no wonder Uwe Boll is allowed to make movies. if the german goverment allows this crap. it makes every movie Uwe Bowl has put out a masterpiece.
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post #76 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 05:55 AM
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No, Kino International is handling Metropolis (yes that thought crossed my mind, hence why I checked, thank god Koch isn't touching it)
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post #77 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 07:41 AM
 
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This site has the first review of this that i can find online.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Gu...ray_Disc.shtml

From the review.....

The movie slipped into relative obscurity and subsequent disrepair over the past seventy years, and so an extensive restoration was undertaken for this first-ever Blu-ray release. Dirt was removed, damage was repaired, and colors were retimed to historically accurate reference levels. To create the new 1.78:1 1080p master, a proprietary frame-by-frame process was used, revealing never-before-seen picture information from the left and right sides while respecting the standard top and bottom safe action areas. Despite its 1.37:1 origins, Gulliver is very organically framed for widescreen, without any stretching.

Sounds to me like they are just listening to what Koch told them rather than using their own eyes as i really cannot see any additional picture information being available at the sides when this was hand drawn so that info seems suspect.

The producers of this release actually replied in the forum of that site.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/fo...-ray-disc.html

They say....

We appreciate your review of Gulliver's Travels Blue Ray and would like to add that the film was done from an original 1939 film master and with any film this old we did the best job possible. Our goal was to being a new version of a classic late 1930's film to a whole new generation of viewers and televisions while preserving the classic look for collectors and older fans. We used mpeg 2 in order to get the best looking product in full screen and not letterbox format. As with any older film we tried to remove as many artifacts as possible with out removing any of the bright original colors. We actually recreated the original 1939 color pallats at Technicolor. The colors are all true to the original film only brighter and clearer with the new technology.

As you noted we also included an original un-restored but cleaned up sound track in addition to the 5.1 tracks. The original sound track was actually recorded in early stereoscopic sound. The new sound tracks were augmented by Academy Award nominated Foley Artist Michael Keeping and recorded the same way the original sound effects were done by Fleischer Studio's.

Gabby is a principal character in the movie but was also featured in several Fleischer cartoons himself. He was one of Max Fleischer's favorite characters and the credits were omitted because they are the same (people) as the feature. The bonus the making of a cartoon was produced for Popular Mechanics and added to give the audience a feel for how involved and complicated the process's done at Fleischer Studio's were and how innovative Fleischer was in his time.

We hope everyone will enjoy this great classic film for years to come, both old viewers and new and we tried to keep the historic look and feel while embracing the new technologies as Max Fleischer would if he was working with us today and in a way that it could be enjoyed while viewed on the new generation of digital wide screen tv's.

This film was dedicated to Max Fleischer's son Richard who recently passed away, who provided us with inspiration, was a friend of the Tom Reich the director of this project and a very successful and well regarded director in his own right.

We thank the reviewer and Koch/E1 for their support and assistance and look for Max Fleischer's Superman coming soon.


Sounds like Superman will be butchered by them next and frankly they seem to be talking a lot of bull with regards their MPEG2 statements and their "preservation" statements.
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post #78 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

We appreciate your review of Gulliver's Travels Blue Ray

They don´t even know how to spell Blu-Ray right
And the way they are praising the colors just made me laugh
The colors are BLEEDING for gods sake!!

Big Picture Big Sound are a bunch of ass kissing *******s!!
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post #79 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie76 View Post

They don´t even know how to spell Blu-Ray right
And the way they are praising the colors just made me laugh
The colors are BLEEDING for gods sake!!

To be fair to the site reviewer he actually gave it low marks.

What the producers said in the forum though disgust me.
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post #80 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


The new sound tracks were augmented.....

Augmented how? This doesn't sound promising.
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post #81 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 08:50 AM
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Yeah but THIS is just wrong:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

To create the new 1.78:1 1080p master, a proprietary frame-by-frame process was used, revealing never-before-seen picture information from the left and right sides while respecting the standard top and bottom safe action areas. Despite its 1.37:1 origins, Gulliver is very organically framed for widescreen, without any stretching.

There IS stretching in the picture and cropping. And this is easly noticable when comparing to ANY of the public domain versions on Youtube.
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post #82 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 09:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie76 View Post

Yeah but THIS is just wrong:



There IS stretching in the picture and cropping. And this is easly noticable when comparing to ANY of the public domain versions on Youtube.

True.

The review was just using the script supplied to them by Koch.
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post #83 of 202 Old 03-09-2009, 10:16 AM
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this doesn't look like animation... this looks like someone ate a film print of this one and vomited it back up


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post #84 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 08:37 AM
 
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Is this the same company that released late last year the excellent 1974 version of Black Christmas and if so how does that film look considering this company released it ?
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post #85 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 08:48 AM
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The New York Times has an interesting DVD review of both "Pinocchio" and "Gulliver's Travels" which is also a mini-history lesson on the Disney-Fleischer Bros. rivalry from the 1930's: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/mo...o/08dkehr.html

Quote:


The two studios struggled for supremacy through much of the 1930s, until Disney played his trump card: “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs” (1937), a feature-length animation in glowing Technicolor. A phenomenal success, “Snow White” changed the game, forcing the Fleischers to abandon their urban turf and play on Disney’s field. Rushed into production in a new studio built in Miami, the Fleischers’ “Gulliver’s Travels” (1939) made money at the box office but not enough to put the brothers on sound financial footing.

Cost overruns during the production of a second feature, “Mister Bug Goes to Town,” led the Fleischers to sell their studio to their distributor, Paramount Pictures. And when “Mister Bug” flopped — it was released on Dec. 9, 1941, two days after the bombing of Pearl Harbor — Paramount pulled the plug. The Fleischers were shown the door and their operations absorbed into an in-house cartoon unit.

The brothers, who had stopped speaking to each other, went their separate ways. Copyrights were not renewed on their two features, and the films fell into the public domain, where they have suffered decades of abuse.

The Walt Disney Company, on the other hand, did rather well.

Quote:


The new DVD of “Gulliver’s Travels” uses digital restoration technology to remove dirt and scratches, but important details have been swept away in the process: the bold lines of the drawings have turned faint and wispy, the colors thin and unstable. Worse, the image has been reformatted to fit the wide television screens of today, losing the top and bottom of the original frame.

This may also explain why the "Gulliver's Travels" source material in the new DVD/BD is so bad (and made worse by Koch's stupidity in stretching a 4:3 image to 16x9): it's been languishing in public domain hell for the longest time. Koch's master is probably one of many sub-par versions that have been floating around since the copyright expired.


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post #86 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 01:03 PM
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Just wanted to say Koch Vision is merely the distributor of the DVD/BD, Entertainment One is the studio responsible for the DVD's creation.

So calling for Koch Vision's head is like suing the grocery store after finding a dead mouse in a randomized sealed bag of Frito-Lay brand Rold Gold pretzels...
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post #87 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Just wanted to say Koch Vision is merely the distributor of the DVD/BD, Entertainment One is the studio responsible for the DVD's creation.

So calling for Koch Vision's head is like suing the grocery store after finding a dead mouse in a randomized sealed bag of Frito-Lay brand Rold Gold pretzels...

Well the distributor should at least make a QC of what they distribute. Thing like this hurt their brand.
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post #88 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 01:52 PM
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I'm not buying it for sure. I hope that :

1) A boycott doesn't send the message not to release older titles

2) This sort of thing isn't the shape of things to come



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post #89 of 202 Old 03-10-2009, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Just wanted to say Koch Vision is merely the distributor of the DVD/BD, Entertainment One is the studio responsible for the DVD's creation.

So calling for Koch Vision's head is like suing the grocery store after finding a dead mouse in a randomized sealed bag of Frito-Lay brand Rold Gold pretzels...

How do some of their other movies stack up as far as image quality goes.

Here's a link to some of their other releases. My own feeling is that if they cannot get hold of a great print then at least acknowledge that when you release it and say you did your best but don't try and fool us all into believing it's amazing ( putting spin on it ) Also it's interesting that Disney was the main competition when they released this back in the thirties as Disney just released Pinocchio in it's ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO while this film's been butchered into a 1.78:1 aspect.

http://www.rcv.nl/huur.html?end=1
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post #90 of 202 Old 03-11-2009, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Wowie! When I started this thread out of preemptive rage about the cropping issue, I had no idea that all other aspects of this release would place it this far beyond desirability.

This has gotta take the prize for the worst Blu-ray out there, and I'm glad Beaver posted screen-caps, because they failed to note the heinous amount of DNR that has given the image a severely "posterized" look.

I suspect an upconverted analog master run through the ringer. Image released a decent, and unfortunately long out-of-print DVD on this title proving there are solid elements still kicking around, so don't be fooled by any "best that could be done" claims.

Hope nobody bought this in either format.
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