Audio Tier Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1353 Old 09-03-2009, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ballen420 View Post

That's a little disappointing, especially since I've read that Gladiator has some issues with bass and crackling at times. I guess I should have watched a little more of Braveheart before getting anyone excited.

I think my post made it seem like both were bad. I liked what I heard, they sound great, I just don't know if anyone will pick them as demo material over a majority of what's currently available.

I didn't read about the crackling problems on Gladiator.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #902 of 1353 Old 09-04-2009, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JetJockey1 View Post

LOL, I'll say it again, it is so weird how we all hear different things from concert discs. Go figure

It's not so much of what we hear, but what we like or dislike. We actually "hear" the same thing.

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post #903 of 1353 Old 09-04-2009, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

It's not so much of what we hear, but what we like or dislike. We actually "hear" the same thing.

How do we actually know that, though? Couldn't the shape of our ears or thickness of our eardrums mean we actually hear differently than one another? I'm honestly asking, because I don't know. It seems kind of hard to prove that we here just alike, though.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #904 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

How do we actually know that, though? Couldn't the shape of our ears or thickness of our eardrums mean we actually hear differently than one another? I'm honestly asking, because I don't know. It seems kind of hard to prove that we here just alike, though.

I'm not saying we hear exactly alike, but the subjectivity of our opinions of it isn't shaped by our auditory sensor, but rather of what we make of it.

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post #905 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 09:44 AM
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As I mentioned in a now locked thread I had posted the BD that has impressed me the most is The Incredible Hulk (Norton, Tyler...not the first version w/ Jennifer Connelly). It has the strongest LFE I've heard and felt. Not only does it shake the walls. It sounded/felt like my room was coming apart. The sheer FORCE was amazing. Had to turn the volume down to I think -22 or -20. Watched it last night.

And today I turned on my HT system. BOY the sound quality just stepped up a notch. I think my gear just pasted the "first break-in period". TIH must have really gave my gear a workout. The audio sound so much more open, rich and full of body. It's like my system just woke up.

My gear is all new. I think I've only been running it for a month. So I look forwards to hearing the difference in a few more months when it's that much more "broken-in".

Will watch Transformers next probably. See and hopefully hear/feel how impressive the last 30 minutes is. As recommended by a poster.

And I apologize to the moderator who locked my thread. Didn't notice this "sticky" thread was about audio on BD's. Which is why I overlooked it. Maybe if it were called "Audio quality talk" or "BD's that SLAM".
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post #906 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 01:35 PM
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Knowing....DTS-MA 5.1.....Reference

Unfortunately the movie stinks, but the audio quality is definitely worth a listen. There are plenty of demo scenes in the movie, with the airplane crash and the ending scene (don't want to ruin it) sticking out the most. Surrounds are used very well with good front to side to rear separation, you even get the feeling of being in the middle of some of the action. Dialouge was never a problem and LFE is also top notch.
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post #907 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 10:36 PM
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Tropic Thunder (TrueHD) - Tier-1- This didn't sound like a Tier-0 title to me as something was missing (LFE and fidelity?) in the action sequences despite the 360 soundfield.

This is Tier-1 at best in my opinion.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #908 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 11:11 PM
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GLADIATOR- Tier 1

While there are moments of the film that are very powerful, I admit to being a bit underwhelmed with the presentation. Seemed that the middle and low frequency ranges were a bit too muddled for my tastes. Dialogue was generally good and the bass has extension, just not a lot of inner detail. I actually was suprised how far back in the mix the score was.

BRAVEHEART- Tier 0

Score and dialogue was well represented, however I did notice this mix more "front-centered" than I remember it being? When the action sequences kicked in, so did the surrounds but subtle ambience wasn't really part of the mix. Still and all well recorded and represented on the BD.
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post #909 of 1353 Old 09-05-2009, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Tropic Thunder (TrueHD) - Tier-1- This didn't sound like a Tier-0 title to me as something was missing (LFE and fidelity?) in the action sequences despite the 360 soundfield.

This is Tier-1 at best in my opinion.

It's still in tier 0.
That was supposed to be moved about 3 times lol. You're right about it not being tier 0 quality.

I can't remember if I voted tier 1 or 2, anyone that says this has bona fide action-movie type audio is lying.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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post #910 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 05:23 AM
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Just watched the Transformers BD last night. While it does offer good audio presentation. Clear dialogue. Good clear highs, mids and lows. It didn't blow me away as The Incredible Hulk (Ed Norton) did. The LFE while good quality didn't have the force of the bass tones in TIH. Not even close or similar.

The LFE from TIH BD was felt thoughout my body. Hit me in the chest. And hit my chair from the ground up. Not easy considering my HT is in the basement. Concrete floor with hardwood floor on top and foam between. And it shook the walls with so much force it sounded more like heavy "WHOOOOMPS". More than just the typical faint 2-3 second wall shaking you sometimes get with good LFE.

Take the scene with the "gamma radiation generator" (assume that's what it was) when Mr. Blue was trying to cure Bruce. You got a repeating wave of VERY HEAVY high quality bass. And as I said I had to turn the volume down as the overall volume was a bit loud as was the bass. -22 on a Pioneer Elite SC07 receiver. Sub is a SVS PC13 Ultra. Damn impressive. Hats off to the sound engineers for TIH.

So for now, for me, TIH is the bass king. Love to find another on the same level or better. Could it be the Underworld Trilogy? I recall getting my first noise complaint at my last home playing Underworld 1 DVD on my less capable HT system. Will buy this trilogy soon.
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post #911 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

So for now, for me, TIH is the bass king. Love to find another on the same level or better. Could it be the Underworld Trilogy? I recall getting my first noise complaint at my last home playing Underworld 1 DVD on my less capable HT system. Will buy this trilogy soon.

So, you judge the quality of an audio track by how much your sub shakes? If that's the case, may I suggest Black Hawk Down or the War of the Worlds DVD. Those are the only two movies I've seen so far that made me wish I had a better sub.
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post #912 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bonham2 View Post

may I suggest Black Hawk Down or the War of the Worlds DVD.

Did you mean Cloverfield instead of BHD ? I thought the bass was just about OK in BHD.

Ironhide flip still rules in terms of deep bass. Period. This doesn't mean TIH is inferior as it another brilliantly mixed title.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #913 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bonham2 View Post

So, you judge the quality of an audio track by how much your sub shakes? If that's the case, may I suggest Black Hawk Down or the War of the Worlds DVD. Those are the only two movies I've seen so far that made me wish I had a better sub.

No I don't judge the quality of an audio track solely by how much SLAM there is on the track. That's just part of it. A HUGE part of it IMHO. I was commenting on the quality of the bass ONLY. Which is why I said I thought TIH was/IS the "bass king" as far as BD's go. For the sheer SLAM the LFE provides. Is so far unmatched.

Reference quality (for me):
Dark Knight--great overall audio. Excellent soundstage. Great use of surrounds. High quality LFE.
The Incredible Hulk (2nd version, Norton, Tyler)--very good audio throughout but in terms of LFE it has no equal (as far as I know to date...have yet to buy the Underworld Trilogy or Bourne Identity Trilogy).

I have the Black Hawk Down Superbit DVD. Very nice DTS 5.1 track. Not sure if I will rebuy on BD. Is it worth it? Can you hear a big improvement?? it is cheap.
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post #914 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

So for now, for me, TIH is the bass king. Love to find another on the same level or better. Could it be the Underworld Trilogy? I recall getting my first noise complaint at my last home playing Underworld 1 DVD on my less capable HT system. Will buy this trilogy soon.

Try Max Payne. If you don't want to watch the whole movie, watch the last 30 minutes and the ending credits.
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post #915 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:36 AM
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Cop Land (Canadian release) (DTS-MA 5.1) - Tier 1

Dialogue is clear. Surround use for ambience and action with occasional directionality. Natural sounding effects. LFE is ok.

A Man Apart (Canadian release) (DTS-MA 5.1) - Tier 1

Overall sound level is lower than for most movies but once you increase the volume all is good. Dialogue is mostly clear. LFE is pretty good. Surrounds used often with some directionality. Natural sounding effects.
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post #916 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

Just watched the Transformers BD last night. While it does offer good audio presentation. Clear dialogue. Good clear highs, mids and lows. It didn't blow me away as The Incredible Hulk (Ed Norton) did. The LFE while good quality didn't have the force of the bass tones in TIH. Not even close or similar.

The LFE from TIH BD was felt thoughout my body. Hit me in the chest. And hit my chair from the ground up. Not easy considering my HT is in the basement. Concrete floor with hardwood floor on top and foam between. And it shook the walls with so much force it sounded more like heavy "WHOOOOMPS". More than just the typical faint 2-3 second wall shaking you sometimes get with good LFE.

Take the scene with the "gamma radiation generator" (assume that's what it was) when Mr. Blue was trying to cure Bruce. You got a repeating wave of VERY HEAVY high quality bass. And as I said I had to turn the volume down as the overall volume was a bit loud as was the bass. -22 on a Pioneer Elite SC07 receiver. Sub is a SVS PC13 Ultra. Damn impressive. Hats off to the sound engineers for TIH.

So for now, for me, TIH is the bass king. Love to find another on the same level or better. Could it be the Underworld Trilogy? I recall getting my first noise complaint at my last home playing Underworld 1 DVD on my less capable HT system. Will buy this trilogy soon.

Have you tried Cloverfield if you are looking for deep bass?
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post #917 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:50 AM
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Ferris Bueller's Day Off (TrueHD) - Tier 3

Dialogue is clear. Dialogue driven. Sound directed from the front with rare surround use for ambience.

About Last Night (TrueHD) - Tier 4

Dialogue is clear. Dialogue driven. Sound directed from the front. No obvious surrround use. Overall sound is a bit one-dimensional, mostly in midrange and treble including the music.
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post #918 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

I have the Black Hawk Down Superbit DVD. Very nice DTS 5.1 track. Not sure if I will rebuy on BD. Is it worth it? Can you hear a big improvement?? it is cheap.

I'm not sure how great the improvement is because the first time I saw it was on blu-ray. I was just commenting on the level of bass. Obviously, you can't go wrong with BHD, Cloverfield, Incredible Hulk, or any other disc in the "Reference" category.
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post #919 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

I have the Black Hawk Down Superbit DVD. Very nice DTS 5.1 track. Not sure if I will rebuy on BD. Is it worth it? Can you hear a big improvement?? it is cheap.

It's well worth it. I had the BHD 3 disc special edition on dvd and immediately I noticed a difference on the Bluray. It's reference quality for sure.
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post #920 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bonham2 View Post

I'm not sure how great the improvement is because the first time I saw it was on blu-ray. I was just commenting on the level of bass. Obviously, you can't go wrong with BHD, Cloverfield, Incredible Hulk, or any other disc in the "Reference" category.

Ok. Will rent Cloverfield and maybe BHD (just to compare). Max Payne? Definitely a rental. And I think Hitman would have some awesome bass. Even it's trailer had more deep bass than most films. Forget which BD had it play before the menu.
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post #921 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 04:09 PM
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Adventureland DTS-HD Master Audio Tier 3

While I loved the movie itself, this just isn't anything to brag about audibly. It does have some good moments when any of the numerous 80 tunes are playing but overall it is very center channel heavy.
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post #922 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 04:13 PM
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Lost Season 2 DTS-HD Master Audio Tier 0

Just finished this one up and it's right up there with season 1 in terms of incredible surround presence. Where it really shines is ambient noise. Every little cricket (or tree frog if you're Sawyer) is heard, the ocean waves are alive and nightly fires roar. You just really feel like you are there and that is what I look for in a soundtrack. The one strike against it being reference is lack of LFE. It's there every once in a while but it could have been better accounted for.
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post #923 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDD888 View Post

So for now, for me, TIH is the bass king. Love to find another on the same level or better. Could it be the Underworld Trilogy? I recall getting my first noise complaint at my last home playing Underworld 1 DVD on my less capable HT system. Will buy this trilogy soon.

It's not the Underworld Trilogy. Cloverfield is the king until War of the Worlds hits. Also try any movie that's listed in the Reference category.

The Last House on the Left[2009](DTS-MA) - Tier 4
I don't know what the hell happened here. This is by far the worst sounding modern movie I've ever listened to on Blu-ray. I really don't even know how to describe it. Seriously. LFE is ok at times, but the rest of the sound just completely sucks you out of the movie. I wish I had the DVD to compare, the BD has to have some sort of manufacturing error.

This one gets a vote from Tier 3 to Tier 4 because the audio was a distraction.

Batman(TrueHD) - Tier 2
This one could go tier 3. It's not that dynamic, the LFE isn't that great. Dialog is clear with no issues like hisses or pops. It does have a bit of an ADR quality at times and many of the effects sound artificial. The score doesn't get enough respect, it doesn't sound as powerful as it should. The Prince songs sound pretty damn good though for whatever reason.

Batman Returns(TrueHD) - Tier 1
I might be alone here, but this was great probably the best sounding of the 4 included in the anthology. The score sounds warm and robust. The effects are mostly convincing, LFE is appropriate. Not as ADR sounding as the first. Surround use is solid. Overall a mostly natural sounding presentation.

Batman Forever(TrueHD) - Tier 2
This one has a real nasty ADR quality to it, and I thought the LFE was a little hot. Otherwise it's a standard action mix.
Batman and Robin(TrueHD) - Tier 1
Another standard action mix. It doesn't have as big an issue with ADR and overcooked LFE that Forever has.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
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post #924 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 06:21 PM
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Starman (TrueHD) - Tier 2

Dialogue is clear. The first 20 minutes and the ending have some pretty good LFE with a moment of rumbling bass. There is good surround use during these times with directionality. Sometimes the directionality was panning in the fronts but at times included surrounds as well. The rest of the movie was lacking in same. During other times in the movie effects were one-dimensional sounding and hollow. Surrounds were used through the rest of the movie for effects and ambience. Considering its age and mostly dialogue driven this was a pleasant audio surprise.
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post #925 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 08:43 PM
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Reading through this thread guys I've come to ask myself a simple question.

At what level of Tier quality in audio of the titles we start actually benefiting from DTS-MA/TrueHD? I mean if we get to Tier 2,3,4 and below with DTS-MA tracks, are we really getting anything over AC3/DTS at higher bitrates?

I mean, I'm backing up my movies and saving audio as FLAC in order to preserve the lossless nature of audio however I'm wondering if DD 640k or DTS 1.5mbps would sound the same if converted from a lossless source.

I know this was problably discussed in other threads but I'm curious to hear here,especially from FilmMixer.

I am hard pressed to hear major differences between my BD backups with DTS 1.5mbps or 640kb AC3 and DTS-MA/TrueHD I listen from the Blu-ray discs.

The fact that there are some movies in that Tier 0 list that are 640k DD reinforces my question.


My setup is Denon 2908ci and Klipsch Reference 6.1 setup.

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post #926 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bozster View Post

Reading through this thread guys I've come to ask myself a simple question.

At what level of Tier quality in audio of the titles we start actually benefiting from DTS-MA/TrueHD? I mean if we get to Tier 2,3,4 and below with DTS-MA tracks, are we really getting anything over AC3/DTS at higher bitrates?

I mean, I'm backing up my movies and saving audio as FLAC in order to preserve the lossless nature of audio however I'm wondering if DD 640k or DTS 1.5mbps would sound the same if converted from a lossless source.

I know this was problably discussed in other threads but I'm curious to hear here,especially from FilmMixer.

I am hard pressed to hear major differences between my BD backups with DTS 1.5mbps or 640kb AC3 and DTS-MA/TrueHD I listen from the Blu-ray discs.

The fact that there are some movies in that Tier 0 list that are 640k DD reinforces my question.


My setup is Denon 2908ci and Klipsch Reference 6.1 setup.


Most of the posters here [correct me if I'm wrong guys]rating the mix, not the codec, while relative SQ is important, I doubt that many of us compare the various soundtracks to each other on each discs that are available to do so. So for those that lossless is available simply will choose that and never look back. I consider the difference between lossless and the full bit rate DTS or DD+ at 1536kbps slight at best. So if you're happy with your current capability of your system that's all that matters.

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post #927 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Most of the posters here [correct me if I'm wrong guys]rating the mix, not the codec, while relative SQ is important, I doubt that many of us compare the various soundtracks to each other on each discs that are available to do so. So for those that lossless is available simply will choose that and never look back.

I concur. I only listen to 1 codec, lossless if available. On HD DD+ if lossless isn't available. When I rate a disc I post the codec I chose to listen to.
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post #928 of 1353 Old 09-06-2009, 11:11 PM
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How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (TrueHD) - Tier 3

Dialogue driven, sound directed from the front. Clear dialogue.
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post #929 of 1353 Old 09-07-2009, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

I'm not saying we hear exactly alike, but the subjectivity of our opinions of it isn't shaped by our auditory sensor, but rather of what we make of it.

Ok, I'll buy that.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #930 of 1353 Old 09-07-2009, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Tropic Thunder (TrueHD) - Tier-1- This didn't sound like a Tier-0 title to me as something was missing (LFE and fidelity?) in the action sequences despite the 360 soundfield.

This is Tier-1 at best in my opinion.

Here I go defending TT again...

I just happen to love the way this movie sounds, but I do agree with a Tier 1 placement, for some LFE inconsistencies. However, fidelity and clarity of dialogue (my two biggest concerns in any movie on disc) are, IMO, top notch in TT. But, like I said, the LFE issues keep it from being up there with the best for overall presentation.

Stephen.

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