The Silence of the Lambs comparison *PIX* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The Good:

1. The transfer has been cleaned up. As the pictures above shows.
2. Better than DVD

The Bad:

1. Film grain has been left alone in some scenes and some scenes actually look very good but extra DNR has been applied to the rest of the transfer. It doesn't look waxy like most New Line studio Blu-ray cr*p but just ugly smeary look especially some close ups. Now to most people the transfer may just be "adequate" for them. And may even say that "grain" is present most of the time. Some of that "grain" that you see is in fact . . . . .

The Ugly:

1. Obvious artifacts or macroblocking in the transfer. I am not talking fast action movements where almost any HD transfer has it but just static shots with very little movement. When Clarice first met Hannibal is where it got very obvious. Using VC-1 or AVC should definitely reduce this issue. The studio got lazy.


The Criterion DVD has warm look. The Blu-ray is cool. Which one is actually the artist's intent? I ask this question because the change in colors also change the mood of the scene(s). A Re-remaster is definitely in the future for this one.

And to make sure there is no confusion (just in case) I am not saying that the Criterion DVD is good. I am just mentioning its color timing compared to the Blu-ray. As you can see the Criterion Collection DVD is a piece of s***. Criterion Collection DVD or Blu-rays does not mean you get the best treatment of the film. Quality varies.


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post #4 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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And for comparison's sake let me include the trailer:





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post #6 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Blu-ray File size: 21.10 GB

Bitrate: 19.56 mbps



Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
01016.MPLS                                                      MPEG-2  1:58:31 22,273,204,224  43,104,053,825  25.06   19.56   DTS-HD Master 5.1 2764Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) 


DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     SILENCE_OF_LAMBS_SE
Disc Size:      43,104,053,825 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.1

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   01016.MPLS
Size:                   22,273,204,224 bytes
Length:                 1:58:31 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:          25.06 Mbps
Description:            

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-2 Video            19557 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         2764 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 2764 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             French          448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Thai            224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / Dolby Surround

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         36.518 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Chinese         33.143 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Chinese         23.776 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          0.687 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           Korean          19.883 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         32.215 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         0.504 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           Thai            24.315 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Thai            0.541 kbps                      

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00097.M2TS      0:00:00.000     1:58:31.604     22,273,204,224  25,056          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     1:58:31.604     19,557 kbps     44,231 kbps     00:02:07.377    40,552 kbps     00:02:04.582    38,239 kbps     00:02:02.831    101,961 bytes   751,896 bytes   01:27:51.641    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00097.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x02            MPEG-2                                  7111.438                19,557                  17,385,127,185  94,583,573      
00097.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           7111.438                2,764                   2,456,699,628   14,464,219      
00097.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x81            AC3             spa (Spanish)           7111.438                448                     398,250,496     2,222,380       
00097.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             fra (French)            7111.438                448                     398,250,496     2,222,380       
00097.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             tha (Thai)              7111.438                224                     199,125,248     1,111,190       
00097.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           7111.438                37                      32,462,766      187,514         
00097.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa (Spanish)           7111.438                32                      28,637,306      164,065         
00097.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             spa (Spanish)           7111.438                1                       447,953         2,574           
00097.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            PGS             kor (Korean)            7111.438                20                      17,675,377      105,033         
00097.M2TS      4612 (0x1204)   0x90            PGS             zho (Chinese)           7111.438                33                      29,462,331      169,100         
00097.M2TS      4613 (0x1205)   0x90            PGS             zho (Chinese)           7111.438                24                      21,135,794      123,788         
00097.M2TS      4614 (0x1206)   0x90            PGS             tha (Thai)              7111.438                24                      21,614,884      126,276         
00097.M2TS      4615 (0x1207)   0x90            PGS             tha (Thai)              7111.438                1                       480,994         2,847           
00097.M2TS      4616 (0x1208)   0x90            PGS             fra (French)            7111.438                1                       610,864         3,499


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post #8 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 05:57 AM
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I can't believe people are passing on this title "because OMGWTF it's MPEG2"
My CC DVD will be on Ebay before the day's out.

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post #9 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:04 AM
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Sure the BD has more details but the colors are way different. Wasn't the Criterion version overseen by the DP? It's got a much warmer look, looks more moody.
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post #10 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa View Post

Sure the BD has more details but the colors are way different. Wasn't the Criterion version overseen by the DP? It's got a much warmer look, looks more moody.

From the DVD Beaver comparisons (no offense, Xylon... they just show more versions than you ), it looks to me like they've gone back to the timing of the first MGM DVD release (or close to it).

I don't feel special...
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post #11 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:12 AM
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I´ll stick with the DVD until a remastered BD shows up in the future.
I grew tired of wasting money on mediocre cataloge discs just because "IT`S BLU-RAY!!".
I´ll only buy catalog BD:s that show HUGE improvments over an upscaled DVD from now on.
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post #12 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:17 AM
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MPEG2? Was this sitting on a shelf for 2 years?
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post #13 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:23 AM
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I think I'll pass on this one for now.

PSN: DaveS78
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post #14 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:32 AM
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I prefer Criterion's colors, they look more right for this film.
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post #15 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

MPEG2? Was this sitting on a shelf for 2 years?

You got it in one!

I don't feel special...
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post #16 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:36 AM
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The cooler look is just like the BD of HALLOWEEN... WRONG!

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...

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post #17 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:39 AM
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So far, the colors don't look that much different than the CC DVD. Cleaned up and more vivid, but not really changed that much. Big improvement over the previous SE DVD for sure.

And as I posted in the other thread on the subject, the real need for improvment for this title on home video was the sound. Every release since the CC DVD had terrible sound quality. Hopefully the one review I read saying the sound had finally been improved was correct. If so, this is must buy as soon as the price drops to a resonable one.


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post #18 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The cooler look is just like the BD of HALLOWEEN... WRONG!

Didn't the DP supervisor both transfers?
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post #19 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:00 AM
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IMO there is no comparison to the Halloween transfers. The difference on Silence between the CC DVD and BD is no where near that dramatic.


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post #20 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie76 View Post

I´ll stick with the DVD until a remastered BD shows up in the future.
I grew tired of wasting money on mediocre cataloge discs just because "IT`S BLU-RAY!!".
I´ll only buy catalog BD:s that show HUGE improvments over an upscaled DVD from now on.

Me too.
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post #21 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:13 AM
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I remember reading that both looks or transfers were approved by Tak Fujimoto.

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post #22 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I remember reading that both looks or transfers were approved by Tak Fujimoto.

Yeah, I remember reading that as well. So, if the DP has approved both, he is either unexacting or open-minded. I see no reason that we should be more particular than he.
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post #23 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:42 AM
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I'm passed because it was $45 at BB yesterday.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

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post #24 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 07:58 AM
 
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Nasty EE on the power lines and tree branches in the second pic. Lack of grain is really apparent in the last pic too. Sad.
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post #25 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 08:19 AM
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I just pulled out my Criterion DVD and it says in the notes that the transfer was made with cinematographer Tak Fujimoto.
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post #26 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

I'm passed because it was $45 at BB yesterday.

sweet mercy, seriously? Someone there should be hung for that.

I agree that the color looks too cool for the mood of this film. I only have the original dvd release so I'll wait on amazon to send my the BD but I can already see myself changing my TV from normal to warm for this one.


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post #27 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 09:15 AM
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sweet mercy, seriously? Someone there should be hung for that.

Wow. Hanged for the equivalent of a typo. Glad you're not my boss.

I don't feel special...
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post #28 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa View Post

I just pulled out my Criterion DVD and it says in the notes that the transfer was made with cinematographer Tak Fujimoto.

Using technology/compression techniques from the late 1990's (which were still bound by Laserdisc legacy technology). I'm sticking with my Criterion DVD because (a) those Xylon pics don't show a dramatic-enough improvement over the old disc to warrant an upgrade (MPEG2?!?!) and (b) I'm broke!


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post #29 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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I have already commented on the closed thread so won't bother giving my full thoughts again just to say i got it 9 days ago and i'm very disappointed with this release.

You want to know why just look at the closed thread and you will see my thoughts there.

( I'm not disappointed just because it's MPEG2 either )

In fact this is one of my favorite films of all time and i get passionate about it in debates so i better just stay out of the thread or else i'll get this one closed down too.

No doubting it's an upgrade from the last MGM DVD edition and no doubt you can be happy at the extra's but the transfer itself disappoints me and i don't use DVD as a measure of quality.

I hope in 2011 for it's twentieth anniversary Jonathan Demme becomes involved and we see the definitive edition released. This is one of the best films of the nineties and deserved a better transfer and deserved to have lavish attention bestowed upon it. It didn't get it and once again some person either loves playing with their DNR tools or more likely the DNR was baked into the master for the last DVD release and they haven't bothered spending the cash to redo it for HD media.

What a stupid way to treat your movies and it shows short term thinking - Bake DNR into the master....The first rule of working with pictures using Photoshop or similar programs is to never bake the changes into the original master copy of the photo but studio's seem to have it all backward. ( crazy )
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post #30 of 180 Old 03-04-2009, 11:17 AM
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I prefer white clouds, blue skies and green trees which you do not get with the Criterion edition. It is obvious that Red has been favored somewhere (telecine transfer and/or colorist color correction choice, etc.) on the Criterion edition.


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