The French Connection comparison *PIX* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 226 Old 03-17-2009, 10:30 AM
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Who would have ever thought that having the director involved with the home video process would be a bad thing?

It's a shame they didn't offer both versions of the movie on BD. This new "look" would make an interesting special feature.

I'll chalk this up as further proof that nobody should dump the previous DVD/BD versions until they see the new version. Wonder how brisk the market is for the previous DVD version now.
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post #182 of 226 Old 03-23-2009, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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post #183 of 226 Old 05-19-2009, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Alert! Alert!

Owen Roizman will be at American Cinematheque's Aero Theatre at Santa Monica to discuss after screening of The French Connection on May 20, 2009 7:30 PM.

$10 general admission.

American Cinematheque
1328 Montana Avenue, Santa Monica

Info
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post #184 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 08:51 AM
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I watched The French Connection on BD for the first time last night.I'm convinced that this film simply had the color removed then was poorly colorized digitally. I've never seen anything like this ever.

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post #185 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:04 AM
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Yup the new color "correction" by the director looks like ****

Sadly this seems to become a standard today when remastering classics....
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post #186 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:07 AM
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But I thought the whole battlecry of everyone here is that studios need to follow director's intent with Blu-ray transfers and when they don't people seem to raise a big uproar.

I think it's pretty clear that in this case this is exactly what the director (William Friedkin) wants. Even if most people seem to prefer something different this is what he wants.
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post #187 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I watched The French Connection on BD for the first time last night.I'm convinced that this film simply had the color removed then was poorly colorized digitally. I've never seen anything like this ever.

Art

There was a monster thread about this and it has been much discussed on the review sites.

The director supervised the color processing and many people think it stinks.

-Bill
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post #188 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:08 AM
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I'm not saying that it wasn't approved but just the take on the look. Having seen several colorized films lately and the fact the first couple of seconds are black and white leads me to believe that this is exactly what was done. The colors are few ,colors bleed around all colored objects ,the luma moves often out of sinc with the chroma and objects have only one color. Examples of flowers fruit etc show only one single color each.


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post #189 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

But I thought the whole battlecry of everyone here is that studios need to follow director's intent with Blu-ray transfers and when they don't people seem to raise a big uproar.

I think there's a distinction between original intent and intent to change. What people want is the director's original intent (ie what he originally gave us). This is exactly why people are in an uproar over the changes Lucas made to Star Wars, Coppola (allegedly) made to Dracula, and Vincent Stararo made to various films. They want the original films, and no one is the least bit obligated to like changes, director approved or not (after all, no one is obligated to like the film in the first place).
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post #190 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:38 AM
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Seems like a double standard to me.
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post #191 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Seems like a double standard to me.

I don't think it is at all. Changes aren't automatically good just because the director makes them (as opposed to the studio).
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post #192 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 09:59 AM
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So directors are only smart enough to do things once and then they are not allowed to have any involvement after that?
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post #193 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

I think there's a distinction between original intent and intent to change.

It may be that the cinematographer (or whoever the right person is) decided much of the original and years later the director decided to change it, even though they didn't change it originally, as it seems happened in this case. Then things get a little more complicated. Especially if somebody doesn't seem to understand what they are doing and the original cinematographer did.

Things seem to be so different with this one that it makes me wonder why the director didn't push for that look originally if that is what they wanted. Maybe there is more to it, but in this case it seems more like incompetence relative to home video more than anything, given what the director said about his process with this one, IIRC.

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post #194 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 10:41 AM
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Did anyone else notice that the color was removed completely in the first few seconds ?

Art

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post #195 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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is it a criterion DVD? in that case one should be careful to use it as reference, because sometimes criterion also has darker encodes than most other editions of a movie in order to boost contrast (or something like that, im not that much in this technical stuff). at least this can be observed in quite a few dvdbeaver DVD comparisons.
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post #196 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

So directors are only smart enough to do things once and then they are not allowed to have any involvement after that?

Who said anything about "allowing" (I hate it when questioning the wisdom of a director is somehow questioning his "rights")? I said we're under no obligation to think his revisions were good. It has nothing to do with what's "allowed".
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post #197 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Did anyone else notice that the color was removed completely in the first few seconds ?

Yes, Art. You are completely correct that the movie was stripped of all color, leaving only a black & white layer, and then colorized after-the-fact. You can watch Friedkin doing it in the Color Timing featurette on disc 2.

In addition to giving the movie an artificial colorized look, the new color layer has actually been defocused. So when he "bleeds it in" on top of the b&w layer, it literally knocks part of the picture out of focus. In the before-and-after comparisons that Friedkin boasts about, you can watch half the detail in the picture vanish every time he switches to the "corrected" version.

It's absolutely infuriating. Friedkin seems to think that this is the greatest thing to ever happen to filmmaking, and wants it done to all of his movies.

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post #198 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 04:24 PM
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When I saw that this movie was being released on Blu I decided to sell my standard dvd. Would people that have this on blu and were familiar with the old dvd recommend buying this on blu? I absolutely love this movie and I have to have it in some form. So what would you folks recommend?
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post #199 of 226 Old 08-08-2009, 05:15 PM
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So what would you folks recommend?

Get the DVD again
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post #200 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 01:37 AM
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Indeed, the dvd is just great in presenting the movie in the best possible version. It has the original look, good shadow detail and boasts terrific sound. Get it before Friedkin convinces 20th Century Fox to replace even the dvd with yet another redone version!
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post #201 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #202 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Yes, Art. You are completely correct that the movie was stripped of all color, leaving only a black & white layer, and then colorized after-the-fact. You can watch Friedkin doing it in the Color Timing featurette on disc 2.

In addition to giving the movie an artificial colorized look, the new color layer has actually been defocused. So when he "bleeds it in" on top of the b&w layer, it literally knocks part of the picture out of focus. In the before-and-after comparisons that Friedkin boasts about, you can watch half the detail in the picture vanish every time he switches to the "corrected" version.

It's absolutely infuriating. Friedkin seems to think that this is the greatest thing to ever happen to filmmaking, and wants it done to all of his movies.

Thanks Josh. I'm not an extra guy generally so I didn't realize this was a supplement explained process.

It really looks like you know what.

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post #203 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buc18 View Post

When I saw that this movie was being released on Blu I decided to sell my standard dvd. Would people that have this on blu and were familiar with the old dvd recommend buying this on blu? I absolutely love this movie and I have to have it in some form. So what would you folks recommend?

I sold off the old and have kept the Blu. It is, in many ways, a radical change but there's a unique quality to this revision that I don't find unpleasant. And the grit and grain that MUST be there for THE FRENCH CONNECTION to be THE FRENCH CONNECTION is still there, so I don't regret my purchase. The fidelity is far greater on the BD (look at the guy's eyebrows between the SD-DVD and the BD in the final shot), too. Having said all of this, I recognize I'm in (at least here at AVSForums) a tiny minority; most here will equate this BD with the most depraved work of Satan himself.
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post #204 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Thanks Josh. I'm not an extra guy generally so I didn't realize this was a supplement explained process.

It leally looks like you know what.

Art

Yes even directors can screw up their movies after it had its theatrical run.

Create a new version of your old movie if you want to, but always include the orginal release, so people that did like the orginal version has a chance to see it.
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post #205 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filmmaker View Post

I sold off the old and have kept the Blu. It is, in many ways, a radical change but there's a unique quality to this revision that I don't find unpleasant. And the grit and grain that MUST be there for THE FRENCH CONNECTION to be THE FRENCH CONNECTION is still there, so I don't regret my purchase. The fidelity is far greater on the BD (look at the guy's eyebrows between the SD-DVD and the BD in the final shot), too. Having said all of this, I recognize I'm in (at least here at AVSForums) a tiny minority; most here will equate this BD with the most depraved work of Satan himself.

My gripe is the poorly implemented colorization. I've seen colorized Three Stooges shorts that are better done.

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post #206 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker View Post

The fidelity is far greater on the BD (look at the guy's eyebrows between the SD-DVD and the BD in the final shot), too.

The word "fidelity" implies faithfulness to the original source. That word cannot be used to describe any aspect of this disc.

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post #207 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 09:31 AM
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Out of curiosity, which *dvd* version of this film is widely regarded as the best transfer of the film?

T.B.
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post #208 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 10:27 AM
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Doesn't matter, as long as you buy the region 1 version; the region 2 EU version is horribly contrast boosted for some reason.
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post #209 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The word "fidelity" implies faithfulness to the original source. That word cannot be used to describe any aspect of this disc.

Well, my no-shades-of-gray friend, I'm going off of definition 1b in Merriam Websters: "accuracy in details". Issue of coloration off the table, there's a shitload greater detail on display in the BD than the DVD.
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post #210 of 226 Old 08-09-2009, 12:55 PM
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The detail is far greater, yup. Look at Frog #2's iris in that last comparison. And the grain is quite beautifully done. But the desaturated colour has been performed in such a cack-handed way that I just can't get past it.
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