"High Definition Benchmark" BD Edition by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1224 Old 01-19-2010, 12:24 PM
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What do you think are the best settings to run the S&M calibration blu ray using a PS3?

These are my current settings:

BD/DVD menu

Cinema Conversion: Automatic
This setting affects how the player deals with film- and video-based standard-def material originating on DVD and Blu-ray. Automatic works well to differentiate between the two.
Upscale: Normal
This setting fills the screen properly when dealing with standard-def content converted to high-def by the PS3.
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): Automatic
This setting affects the color space output via the PS3. RGB is best for video games, which use the same color spce as computers, while Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr is best for video, including DVD and Blu-ray discs. Auto usually works to detect the source properly, so we recommend most people stick with this setting. If you experience discoloration or other issues, try another setting.
BD 1080p 24Hz output (HDMI): On (My Display support Direct 24p in 96Hz)
Most Blu-ray discs are encoded at 1080p/24 natively, which means they have 1,920x1,080 pixels per frame delivered at 24 frames per second, the native film rate. Many HDTVs cannot accept 1080p/24, however, and many more can but don't get any benefit from this setting, and can look choppy or otherwise incorrect. Unless your TV is designed to accept 1080p/24 signals--this includes most LCD models with 120Hz processing, as well as select plasmas with different refresh rates--you should leave this setting turned off. For HDTVs that can accept 1080p/24, however, you might notice a benefit leaving it on; check out our 1080p/24 explainer for more info (Khurshid, for your 800U, we recommend choosing Off and ignoring Panasonic's 48Hz mode, which introduces unwelcome flicker). We also recommend avoiding Auto, because it can sometimes mistakenly output an incorrect format.

Display Settings Menu

Video Output Settings: 1080P
This setting controls the resolution(s) output by the PS3. You should select all of the resolutions with which your TV is compatible. If you have a TV that can accept 1080p signals, you should select all of the check boxes. On HDTVs that cannot accept 1080p, you should check off every resolution except 1080p. The only exception is if you know your TV looks much better with 720p sources than 1080i. If that's the case, we recommend you leave 1080i unchecked as well.
Cross Color Reduction Filter: Off
This setting only applies to S-Video and composite-video output, not HDMI.
RGB Full Range (HDMI): Full
This setting controls the range of information output via HDMI. Contrary to what you might think, this setting is best left on Limited for video-based material like Blu-ray and DVD for the majority of HDMI televisions. Some newer HDTVs can receive a slight benefit from Full if calibrated properly, but in general Limited is the best choice, and we use it in the lab to ensure compatibility of the reference player with all displays.
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI): On
This setting controls whether the PS3 will pass blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white parts of the video signal. It's really only useful during calibration, which is why we leave it turned on. Many discs don't contain material in above white or below black.
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post #542 of 1224 Old 01-19-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

It could be worse, but you are probably not missing too much. Stacey and Don probably have a better idea given the ton of video they've dissected. How do you fare with the RGB clipping patterns? (see above a handful of posts)

Also, there may be some other user accessible settings that could affect what you see. Make sure you turn off anything that does something "automatically" if you haven't done so already, eg. dynamic contrast, noise reduction, etc.

larry

Thank you Larry. I will run the RGB clipping patterns test tonight and let you know the results.
Regards,
Ruben
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post #543 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Also, you may want to try 1080i output for BD. Your display is 1366x768. Outputting 720p from the player causes you do scale twice ("downscale" then "upscale").

larry

That may be, but unfortunately my TV does really poorly with any/all 1080i sources (halos around images, etc.), so 720p is currently my best option.
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post #544 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 04:03 PM
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We just posted an article that provides some additional detail on the static test patterns. http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...epatterns.html
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post #545 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

We just posted an article that provides some additional detail on the static test patterns. http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...epatterns.html

Very nice Stacey. Seems well put together and informative without getting too technical, so people like me can understand all the info.

As a suggestion, maybe someone could format the info into a printable app that will print out in booklet form. Fold in half, staple in the middle, then trim the edges enough to fit right into the S&M calibration BD case.

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post #546 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

We just posted an article that provides some additional detail on the static test patterns.

Very nice, thank you.
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post #547 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 09:10 PM
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Quote:


What do you think are the best settings to run the S&M calibration blu ray using a PS3?

Try forcing both YCbCr and RGB instead of auto and see if it makes a difference.
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post #548 of 1224 Old 01-21-2010, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

We just posted an article that provides some additional detail on the static test patterns. http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/artic...epatterns.html

Stacey,

Read about the compression block for the hard edges. However, for a plasma, when setting the brightness, should I set the brightness as such that the edges of say anything below 17 should also not show? Or is it ok for the edges to show? Or is it simply a bad design of the video compressor on the plasma?
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post #549 of 1224 Old 01-22-2010, 05:39 AM
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The compression is lossless on many of those patterns. The edge you are seeing is because of the display.

It is below 16 should not be visible on the PLUGE pattern. Don't use the contrast pattern to set brightness. The amount of black bars you see on the contrast pattern will vary based on different issues. One such issue is the gamma of the display.
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post #550 of 1224 Old 01-22-2010, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewloveland View Post

That may be, but unfortunately my TV does really poorly with any/all 1080i sources (halos around images, etc.), so 720p is currently my best option.

That's one thing I thought about. Some display just can't deinterlace 1080i properly. Although you should be ok at 1080p for most BDs, yes?

larry

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post #551 of 1224 Old 01-22-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venkatesh_m View Post

Stacey,

Read about the compression block for the hard edges. However, for a plasma, when setting the brightness, should I set the brightness as such that the edges of say anything below 17 should also not show? Or is it ok for the edges to show? Or is it simply a bad design of the video compressor on the plasma?

What I think you may be seeing with the edges showing on the BTB pattern, is the result of sharpness and/or detail enhancement features from the display or source like a dvd/BD player.
You may want to turn those down a bit, but then again, it may not cause degradation in real world viewing, so you'll just have to keep an eye on it.

~Dave

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
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post #552 of 1224 Old 01-22-2010, 09:08 AM
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The edges can also be caused by dither. I saw this when looking at some Panasonic Pro Plasma's.

The best advice I can give in that situation is to ensure the two right bars are visible as well as the checkerboard in the background. If brighntess goes too far, the checker will go away. You may want to put your nose to the screen to ensure the checker board (16/17) is still present.
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post #553 of 1224 Old 01-23-2010, 11:16 PM
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The 24p loop pattern with the race car is suppose to be smooth movement, when the output device and display is set at 1080p/24, correct? I'm getting random stutter on a HTPC with the new Intel Clarkdale board. So, even though its a short clip and not full screen either, I did get a a slight stutter on one software player, but its always in the same place.

So, just wondering how good a short clip like works looking for a 24p problem. Sometimes it is taking quite awhile to see the problem in a movie.
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post #554 of 1224 Old 01-24-2010, 07:22 AM
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Larry,

The race car will loop five times and then there might be a slight pause as the player starts the clip over. If you play the wedge, it will loop twice and then there might be a slight pause.

Is this consistent with what you are experiencing?

There is a natural 24 Hz judder in the clip.

The purpose of the clip is to look for moire in the bleachers. If there is no moire, then everything is OK from that standpoint.
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post #555 of 1224 Old 01-24-2010, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Larry,

The race car will loop five times and then there might be a slight pause as the player starts the clip over. If you play the wedge, it will loop twice and then there might be a slight pause.

Is this consistent with what you are experiencing?

There is a natural 24 Hz judder in the clip.

The purpose of the clip is to look for moire in the bleachers. If there is no moire, then everything is OK from that standpoint.


Well, I get a actual freeze for a second at the end of the loop, but I assumed that was normal. But on one of the software players there is a brief hesitation in the movement of the car, on the second time after the loop starts over.

The other software player don't seem to show a brief stutter there. Yes, I know its mostly for looking at the stands. But I was just looking at it because these pc companies can't see to get 24p right for some reason. So I was looking for maybe a easier way to check what its doing, rather than watching a movie so long.
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post #556 of 1224 Old 01-24-2010, 08:53 AM
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Which players are you trying? Which one has the stutter on the 2nd loop?
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post #557 of 1224 Old 01-24-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

Which players are you trying? Which one has the stutter on the 2nd loop?

WinDVD pro 2010 has the stutter on that loop. PowerDVD 9, lastest version don't. But, I think both will when a movie is playing, they just do it different.

I'm not sure yet if its the players not working with these new Intel Clarkdale boards or just the refresh rate isn't right with Intel. I changed to these because finally can bitstream HD audio.
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post #558 of 1224 Old 01-24-2010, 07:48 PM
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are you watching movies ot blurays? I was using auto on my ps3 but was not getting the proper setting on the ps3. I went and changed it to y pb/cb/pr/cr setting. it worked much better. you might want to try that.

Jacob

• BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): Automatic
This setting affects the color space output via the PS3. RGB is best for video games, which use the same color spce as computers, while Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr is best for video, including DVD and Blu-ray discs. Auto usually works to detect the source properly, so we recommend most people stick with this setting. If you experience discoloration or other issues, try another setting.
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post #559 of 1224 Old 01-26-2010, 05:54 PM
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Hey all I just received this disc in the mail.

I was wondering, the first time I use the disc should I reset the picture settings on the TV first? I have a 52Z5100. My current settings are:

Picture Mode - Custom
Backlight - 2
Picture - 90
Brightness - 46/47
Color - 48
Hue - R1
Color Temperature - Warm 1
Sharpness - Minimum
Noise Reduction - Off
MPEG Noise Reduction - Off
MotionFlow - Off
CineMotion - Off

ADVANCED SECTION

Black Corrector - Off
ACE - Off
Gamma - +2
Auto Light Limiter - Off
Clear White - Off

WHITE BALANCE

Red Gain (-4)
Green Gain (-13)
Blue Gain (-11)
Red Bias (0)
Green Bias (0)
Blue Bias (-1)


The default Gamma and White Balance are 0. Should I put them back there or leave it as I have it? I came to these levels based on someones calibration on their TV.

Also is there a way to determine how high the backlight should be? I think "picture" is contrast.


I have never used a calibration disc, so I am soooooooo lost
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post #560 of 1224 Old 01-26-2010, 07:26 PM
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There is no calibration for backlight.

-Picture -> Use the Contrast Pattern
-Brightness -> Use the PLUGE Low pattern
-Color -> Use the Color Bars pattern
-Hue -> Use the Color Bars pattern
-Color Temperature -> Use the 11-step Gray Scale pattern. You also have custom white balance values. I am not sure how this display works with both. I assume you have the white balance written down. If so, default back to 0 and then change Color Temp to Neutral. In fact, compare Neutral to your Warm1 with the custom settings.
-Sharpness -> Sharpness
-CineMotion -> I think Auto2 is probably the good mode, but should not matter on 1080p24 input.
-Gamma -> Use Image Cropping as a start. Stand at the back of your room and select the gamma that makes the middle the least visible. ie try and make it blend into the gray around it. You may also want to look at PLUGE Low. You want the gamma where the right two bars are closet in brightness to each other and the checkerboard is barely visible. Should still be present up at the screen, but back at the room you should wonder if it is present.

The rest of your setting are in off, which is a good thing.

I also recommend putting up contrast and switching through the various picture modes (Vivid, Cinema, etc...) to see the behavior. Don't be afraid to test stuff out.

Here is an example. Select PLUGE Low. Pull up the brightness control. Turn it all the way up and then all the way down. This will give you and idea of what happens. Then set it where the left two bars are no longer present. You should still have the two bars on the right and the checkerboard in the background.
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post #561 of 1224 Old 01-26-2010, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

There is no calibration for backlight.

-Picture -> Use the Contrast Pattern
-Brightness -> Use the PLUGE Low pattern
-Color -> Use the Color Bars pattern
-Hue -> Use the Color Bars pattern
-Color Temperature -> Use the 11-step Gray Scale pattern. You also have custom white balance values. I am not sure how this display works with both. I assume you have the white balance written down. If so, default back to 0 and then change Color Temp to Neutral. In fact, compare Neutral to your Warm1 with the custom settings.
-Sharpness -> Sharpness
-CineMotion -> I think Auto2 is probably the good mode, but should not matter on 1080p24 input.
-Gamma -> Use Image Cropping as a start. Stand at the back of your room and select the gamma that makes the middle the least visible. ie try and make it blend into the gray around it. You may also want to look at PLUGE Low. You want the gamma where the right two bars are closet in brightness to each other and the checkerboard is barely visible. Should still be present up at the screen, but back at the room you should wonder if it is present.

The rest of your setting are in off, which is a good thing.

I also recommend putting up contrast and switching through the various picture modes (Vivid, Cinema, etc...) to see the behavior. Don't be afraid to test stuff out.

Here is an example. Select PLUGE Low. Pull up the brightness control. Turn it all the way up and then all the way down. This will give you and idea of what happens. Then set it where the left two bars are no longer present. You should still have the two bars on the right and the checkerboard in the background.

Ok I ran through it all and got this:


Picture Mode - Custom
Backlight - 2
Picture - 92
Brightness - 52
Color - 48
Hue - R1
Color Temperature - Neutral (Better white that Warm 1 had)
Sharpness - 4
Noise Reduction - Off
MPEG Noise Reduction - Off
MotionFlow - Off
CineMotion - Off

ADVANCED SECTION

Black Corrector - Off
ACE - Off
Gamma - +2
Auto Light Limiter - Off
Clear White - Off

WHITE BALANCE

Red Gain (0)
Green Gain (0)
Blue Gain (0)
Red Bias (0)
Green Bias (0)
Blue Bias (0)


Only thing is that blue is really clipping on the clipping pattern. And for the Gamma with the image cropping pattern I had trouble getting it to match up.
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post #562 of 1224 Old 01-26-2010, 09:16 PM
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Is only blue clipping? While looking at the clipping pattern, cycle through the color temp modes and see if it changes. Also, does turning down contrast change it?

Blue is probably the most difficult to see. Red would be next. White and green are pretty easy to see.
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post #563 of 1224 Old 01-28-2010, 10:13 AM
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There is a sealed copy of this test disc in the avs classifieds if anyone is interested.

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post #564 of 1224 Old 01-29-2010, 10:00 AM
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I am interested in buying this calibration blu ray. But the majority of sellers is in USA and I live in Canada, therefore, the shipping rate is high and I have to pay duties. Does anyone know where I can grab a copy and avoid all those extra costs that comes with international shipping?
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post #565 of 1224 Old 01-29-2010, 10:25 AM
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At this point we do not have any dealers in Canada. I know that many in Canada have used Amazon.com to purchase the disc. I know we would like to get a dealer in Canada.
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post #566 of 1224 Old 01-31-2010, 03:32 PM
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A question on the color clipping pattern. I has my Pioneer professionally calibrated in movie mode, and such there is no clipping in the 4 squares (white,red,green and blue). However, there are times I prefer Standard over movie for sports, etc, and used the disc to adjust that mode. I know with the Pioneers, using the glasses and HD color bar is not advised to adjust the color/tint as the color is too much and all colors are clipped. So I instead lowered the color and adjusted the tint until there was virtually no clipping. The color looks much better now in standard mode. Just wondering if what I did was acceptable, or are my eyes deceiving me? If i use the glasses to adjust color I have to have it set at +7 where faces become too red, but if I use the clipping pattern instead I set the color at -3.

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post #567 of 1224 Old 01-31-2010, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

The only thing you can do without proper equipment is to use the consumer level control. (cool, med, warm) You use the 11-step gray scale pattern and try each setting and then choose the one closest to gray. One that is not tinted red or blue, for example. Or is the least tinted. Its difficult without a reference, like a gray card with D65 light source.

The best method is using window patterns with a proper measurement device. Some displays, are even easier. You measure red, green, blue, and white and it does the rest.

On an LCD. Can the 11 step grayscale pattern on your disc be used to calibrate grayscale with a colorimeter, or do you need full screen window patterns for each IRE level? In other words, if you just move the sensor up the scale, will the surrounding levels interfere with the light meter so you don't get accurate readings for luminance etc., or will it be fine on an LCD?
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post #568 of 1224 Old 02-01-2010, 05:43 AM
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Quote:


A question on the color clipping pattern.

When using movie mode, does color and tint look correct through the blue filter when looking at the color bars pattern? If so, I suspect that changing from movie mode to standard more changes the color decoding.

What this means is that setting color with the blue filter, in movie mode, results in the other colors being displayed correctly. When setting in standard mode, red and green are probably being exaggerated to make up for other problems. This would make everything appear oversaturated. Flesh tones might have a sunburn look to them. This was common practice just a few years.

The above is just a theory. The only way to know for sure is to view red and green only.
In this case, I would simply set color and tint where you think they look the best.

Quote:


Can the 11 step grayscale pattern on your disc be used to calibrate grayscale with a colorimeter

Unless you have a colorimeter that can focus on a small area, its not going to work well.
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post #569 of 1224 Old 02-07-2010, 07:15 AM
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Not sure if anyone has been listening to the home theater geeks podcast. We were on last weeks. http://twit.tv/htg8
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post #570 of 1224 Old 02-07-2010, 09:39 AM
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This disc is great. The cadence clips are very useful, and I really like the low APL pluge pattern. This is a nice addition to my little collection of calibration discs.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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