Star Trek: The Original Motion Picture Collection comparison *PIX* + reviews - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 05:28 AM
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My memories of Khan in the theaters was of a warm, yellow film, which was a contrast to the cooler look of the first film.

The scene with Spock shown did look a bit cooler than the rest of the film, if memory serves.

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post #32 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post


Half of the set has just disappeared.

This contrast boosting to make it more tri-dimensional for crowd just has to stop.
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post #33 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 05:39 AM
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I'm in the minority here, but the Blu-Ray shot from TMP looks great to me. More of the aztec panelling of the Enterprise is defined/revealed. Look at the saucer section - the pre-DNR shot is micro-blocked all over the map. Just my opinion, but at least to my eyes, it looks quite nice and is an improvement. I'll know better once I have the set and can judge moving pictures.

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post #34 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 06:05 AM
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What are those "Before DNR" caps? An HD broadcast?

I don't feel special...
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post #35 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Banana View Post

I'd guess the un-DNR'd screen caps are from the supplementals on the discs. Whilst it's unlikely that these unrestored clips would be of optimal presentation, it's a bit distressing that (Khan aside) they look better in some ways than the actual movie presentations.

While I think that may be better, I also think there is a possibility that the added/kept noise/grain make the image percieved as better.

I still think Wrath of Kahn BD looks close to what it should (not counting the blue tint)

Quote:


As to Khan, I saw it at the cinema twice and recall that all the space shots had a blue tint, the Enterprise and Reliant always looked blue-white. I have no recollection of how the interior shots looked though.

Yes a blue tint for spaceshoot is understandable since it helps masking the bluescreen edge.

No wonder they prefered to tint the Matrix movie to green and blue.
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post #36 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon's Dad View Post

I'm in the minority here, but the Blu-Ray shot from TMP looks great to me. More of the aztec panelling of the Enterprise is defined/revealed. Look at the saucer section - the pre-DNR shot is micro-blocked all over the map.

I agree. The panelling virtually disappears on the left hand side of the saucer in the 'before' cap, whereas it's clearly visible (and downright beautiful) on the BD proper. The contrast boost is more troubling, however.

In the new commentary for TMP it's mentioned that the film was colour timed to Robert Wise's liking when they put together the Director's Edition, and that the timing has been retained for the BD, but I wonder about the contrast...

As for Bill Hunt's comments, I think he's spot on. I hate DNR, but I found all the movies to be strangely watchable, Undiscovered Country aside.
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post #37 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderv View Post

Does anyone know where are the before DNR screen captures from?

From clips in the HD special features/mini-documentaries.



Should probably prepare for Gladiator, Forrest Gump, Braveheart etc being equally ruined.
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post #38 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

From clips in the HD special features/mini-documentaries.

Should probably prepare for Gladiator, Forrest Gump, Braveheart etc being equally ruined.

I hope Universal takes care of Gladiator for their release.

But it depends on the shape of the master.
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post #39 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderv View Post

Does anyone know where are the before DNR screen captures from?

From the other thread, my guess is that the "before DNR" captures from the special features. So, they likely haven't been cleaned up at all. Basically, Paramount was too lazy to do any restoration work outside of Khan and decided to smear everything with DNR instead.
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post #40 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 07:46 AM
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After all the hype I have read, I was expecting much worse... Hmmm. I canceled my preorder and now I am considering ordering it again. Based on what I have seen so far, I can live with this.
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post #41 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

After all the hype I have read, I was expecting much worse... Hmmm. I canceled my preorder and now I am considering ordering it again. Based on what I have seen so far, I can live with this.

lol. Personally I wouldn't cancel an order based on what a few posters write in this forum without having seen it in motion. Wouldn't be the first time the DNR Crazies have overblown a release's deficiencies. I'm sure it's not entirely optimal, but not everyone owns a 100 foot screen, nor should transfers be judged entirely on whether they work for that criteria.
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post #42 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:11 AM
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While I can appreciate the grain in the non-DNRed screen caps giving the movie a more film-like appearance, I can also understand the desire to scrub away the grain - there are probably a large number of Trek fans that are not necessarily film buffs that will prefer the DNRed versions. I would think that those people, after having seen the new Star Trek movie in the theaters, would complain about how old-looking and "muddy" the non-DNRed versions would be. (I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I imagine it does not have the level of grain seen in the non-DNRed caps.)

I'm not saying that over-applying DNR is a good thing, but I can understand the perception of market forces. I do wish that something in-between had been achieved instead - remove some of the grain, but leave some in for that film-like look - which is I guess what happened in WoK.

Still, the DNRed versions look watchable anyway. My set will ship eventually, and I can make my own judgment. Since I don't own any of these on DVD or VHS, these will still be worth it.

IMHO,

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post #43 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:35 AM
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Xylon, you're the first person to put up some exterior shots, thank you so much.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #44 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I would think that those people, after having seen the new Star Trek movie in the theaters, would complain about how old-looking and "muddy" the non-DNRed versions would be. (I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I imagine it does not have the level of grain seen in the non-DNRed caps.)

Its actually has alot of grain in relationship to that its been shoot on Anamorphic 35mm.

Now its not as grainy as the before DNR caps, but its definitely not as clean as the after DNR screencaps.

So if you have your theatrical visit fresh in mind, I think a little grain wouldnt hurt for the trekkies.

The movie wasnt anywere close to looking like an oilpainting or smeary facial details.

And I think the DNR in this case is just a poor mans restoration. Using old masters and market them as remastered.

There are a right way of doing this and a cheap way of doing this. Star trek fans deserves better.
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post #45 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:37 AM
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Post #20 clearly shows the real truth in this story.
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post #46 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Star trek fans deserves better.

Over the years, this has become a truism.

I don't feel special...
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post #47 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon's Dad View Post

I'm in the minority here, but the Blu-Ray shot from TMP looks great to me. More of the aztec panelling of the Enterprise is defined/revealed. Look at the saucer section - the pre-DNR shot is micro-blocked all over the map. Just my opinion, but at least to my eyes, it looks quite nice and is an improvement. I'll know better once I have the set and can judge moving pictures.

I was just about to post the same, it looks more pleasing to me. The blacks are being crushed pretty bad in the shot, though. Much of the structure of the dock disappears into the background on the BD, but that may be the sacrifice they made to bring out the image of the Enterprise as they did. I'm looking forward to getting it and watching it to see how the whole disc looks.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #48 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

More disturbing to me is the color shift. How was this supposed to look? Is the color shift correcting the previous releases and making it appear as it did theatrically, or is this someone thinking it looks better this way?

now i'm not old enough to have seen TWOK on it's original theatrical run (i was born in 82) but i saw it with some friends at a theater a few years ago and the walls in that room are WHITE not blue

same with my VHS copy and the DVD i never got around to buying for some reason
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post #49 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 08:55 AM
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What, no Ilia?

Semi-seriously: apart from perhaps that shot of Saavik from STIII this doesn't look that bad to me. So far, that is.

...and I need your sweet love, Latina T-Mobile girl!

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post #50 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:29 AM
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The problem with the non DNR frames isn't film grain it is compression artefacts. I find the compression artefacts more annoying than the DNR.

It is good to see that the BD doesn't have the border lines that the DVD does in WoK.
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post #51 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:36 AM
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Personally, I would much rather have a really sharp looking transfer with lots of scratches and grain than a soft picutre with those defects removed!

As for a complete discussion, you can check out (Select the entry for May 11)http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
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post #52 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post

lol. Personally I wouldn't cancel an order based on what a few posters write in this forum without having seen it in motion. Wouldn't be the first time the DNR Crazies have overblown a release's deficiencies. I'm sure it's not entirely optimal, but not everyone owns a 100 foot screen, nor should transfers be judged entirely on whether they work for that criteria.

Well, it wasn't just the "DNR crazies" that were complaining about it

100 ft screen

I am just stuck with my 100" screen...
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post #53 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:38 AM
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Some people might even be stuck with a 100 cm screen.
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post #54 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Some people might even be stuck with a 100 cm screen.

And I am guessing they are not the types of people who are concerned with (or should be concerned with) DNR. Unless they are sitting about 4ft from the screen.
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post #55 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxon's Dad View Post

I'm in the minority here, but the Blu-Ray shot from TMP looks great to me. More of the aztec panelling of the Enterprise is defined/revealed. Look at the saucer section - the pre-DNR shot is micro-blocked all over the map. Just my opinion, but at least to my eyes, it looks quite nice and is an improvement. I'll know better once I have the set and can judge moving pictures.

I'm with you there. I think the Blu-Ray TMP shot looks amazing and I am very glad I didn't cancel my order.
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post #56 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

And I think the DNR in this case is just a poor mans restoration. Using old masters and market them as remastered.

There are a right way of doing this and a cheap way of doing this. Star trek fans deserves better.

I tend to agree here. That had a lot to do with my canceling my pre-order. I will either rent them or wait for a sale. I still think the BD version is a nice step up from the DVD version so it is still worth renting/buying, but it is frustrating nonetheless that Paramount went this route vs doing a proper restore.
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post #57 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:54 AM
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I wonder how long until they remaster and put out a version that people here would prefer more?
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post #58 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

I wonder how long until they remaster and put out a version that people here would prefer more?

That is the million dollar question for me. According to Bill Hunt it aint happening anytime soon. I would guess it won't be within the next 5 years at the earliest.
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post #59 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

From clips in the HD special features/mini-documentaries.

Should probably prepare for Gladiator, Forrest Gump, Braveheart etc being equally ruined.

Bravehart has been prepped for years now...but they will likely revisit it again and re-encode it.
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post #60 of 1334 Old 05-12-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

That is the million dollar question for me. According to Bill Hunt it aint happening anytime soon. I would guess it won't be within the next 5 years at the earliest.

Yeah i'd say it will be years.

So if someone doesn't own the DVD's (like me) and likes these movies I think it's a no brainer to get these if the price is right even if they are not perfect.

If you own the DVD's then I guess it's up to people to decide if it's worth the extra $$$'s to upgrade now vs waiting years for something better.
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