Star Trek: The Original Motion Picture Collection comparison *PIX* + reviews - Page 39 - AVS Forum
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post #1141 of 1334 Old 03-12-2011, 11:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ferdinandhudson View Post

No, if I'm not mistaken only the Connery ones received 4K scans. The rest were 2K.

Moonraker and Live and Let Die were 4k
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post #1142 of 1334 Old 03-12-2011, 02:00 PM
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Considering it's been almost a year and a half since the individual releases of II, IV, VI and First Contact and they never got around to the other films, I'm hoping this means Paramount is planning fresh transfers of the ones that need it .... which would be all of them except Khan and Nemesis.
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post #1143 of 1334 Old 03-12-2011, 02:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Considering it's been almost a year and a half since the individual releases of II, IV, VI and First Contact and they never got around to the other films, I'm hoping this means Paramount is planning fresh transfers of the ones that need it .... which would be all of them except Khan and Nemesis.

They all came out in the UK I don't think there is any hope now, and I still refuse to buy them in this condition
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post #1144 of 1334 Old 03-12-2011, 09:46 PM
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Ah, right, forgot about overseas.

What's truly frustrating is how we can see from Xylon's screenshots that Paramount had unmolested versions of I, III and IV on their hands. Sure, they might not have been all-out restored like Khan, but they could've put them to blu-ray without any complaints from this enthusiast. Instead, for whatever reason, they decided to filter them and the results look terrible.

We don't have "before DNR" screencaps for V, but I'm guessing it was a similar situation: nice new transfer needlessly filtered to death.

Then there's VI. It's pretty clear that instead of going back to a film element of some sort, such as an IP, Paramount simply dug up a 1080i broadcast master of the theatrical version, filtered it and put it out on disc.

It's interesting to note that with TMP, III, IV and V, Paramount wouldn't necessarily need to spend a single penny to give us picture quality that's at least satisfactory. VI would need a proper remastering, though.

Here's what Paramount could do: Next year, coinciding with the new movie's release, quietly reissue all the movies with different cover art (or something) Gangs of New York style, maybe call them "ultimate editions" this time to make the re-release seem more justified. Like I said, the pre-DNR transfers of the theatrical cuts of I-V appear to at least be in good order so it would be a win-win situation.

Here's where they'd need to spend some money and put in some effort: re-render the TMP director's cut at full 1080p (if not higher), include the longer version of Khan via seamless branching, making sure the extra scenes are preserved at the same quality as the theatrical. Properly remaster VI and include both versions via seamless branching.
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post #1145 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 12:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Ah, right, forgot about overseas.

What's truly frustrating is how we can see from Xylon's screenshots that Paramount had unmolested versions of I, III and IV on their hands. Sure, they might not have been all-out restored like Khan, but they could've put them to blu-ray without any complaints from this enthusiast. Instead, for whatever reason, they decided to filter them and the results look terrible.

We don't have "before DNR" screencaps for V, but I'm guessing it was a similar situation: nice new transfer needlessly filtered to death.

Then there's VI. It's pretty clear that instead of going back to a film element of some sort, such as an IP, Paramount simply dug up a 1080i broadcast master of the theatrical version, filtered it and put it out on disc.

It's interesting to note that with TMP, III, IV and V, Paramount wouldn't necessarily need to spend a single penny to give us picture quality that's at least satisfactory. VI would need a proper remastering, though.

Here's what Paramount could do: Next year, coinciding with the new movie's release, quietly reissue all the movies with different cover art (or something) Gangs of New York style, maybe call them "ultimate editions" this time to make the re-release seem more justified. Like I said, the pre-DNR transfers of the theatrical cuts of I-V appear to at least be in good order so it would be a win-win situation.

Here's where they'd need to spend some money and put in some effort: re-render the TMP director's cut at full 1080p (if not higher), include the longer version of Khan via seamless branching, making sure the extra scenes are preserved at the same quality as the theatrical. Properly remaster VI and include both versions via seamless branching.

Here is my theory.

Next year people will love the new movie, compare it to the previous films, and then nobody will consider a re-release.
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post #1146 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 03:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Ah, right, forgot about overseas.

What's truly frustrating is how we can see from Xylon's screenshots that Paramount had unmolested versions of I, III and IV on their hands. Sure, they might not have been all-out restored like Khan, but they could've put them to blu-ray without any complaints from this enthusiast. Instead, for whatever reason, they decided to filter them and the results look terrible.

We don't have "before DNR" screencaps for V, but I'm guessing it was a similar situation: nice new transfer needlessly filtered to death.

Then there's VI. It's pretty clear that instead of going back to a film element of some sort, such as an IP, Paramount simply dug up a 1080i broadcast master of the theatrical version, filtered it and put it out on disc.

It's interesting to note that with TMP, III, IV and V, Paramount wouldn't necessarily need to spend a single penny to give us picture quality that's at least satisfactory. VI would need a proper remastering, though.

Here's what Paramount could do: Next year, coinciding with the new movie's release, quietly reissue all the movies with different cover art (or something) Gangs of New York style, maybe call them "ultimate editions" this time to make the re-release seem more justified. Like I said, the pre-DNR transfers of the theatrical cuts of I-V appear to at least be in good order so it would be a win-win situation.

Here's where they'd need to spend some money and put in some effort: re-render the TMP director's cut at full 1080p (if not higher), include the longer version of Khan via seamless branching, making sure the extra scenes are preserved at the same quality as the theatrical. Properly remaster VI and include both versions via seamless branching.

Er, since when?
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post #1147 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Er, since when?

Since Paramount announced the sequel's release date was June 29, 2012?

I doubt Paramount really cares about these films enough now to consider springing for such expensive remasters. J.J. Abram's remake is such a vast cash-cow for them that I'd imagine they want to pour their money into that franchise now rather than what is ultimately going to become the 'old-fashioned' Star Trek. Sad, really, but then the original Star Trek films were never big money spinners in the first place.
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post #1148 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 04:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Er, since when?

Screenwriters Alex Kurtman and Roberto Orci have announced a script that could arrive for summer 2010.

read

Here are more writers of the past.

Gene Roddenberry, Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, Ronald D. Moore, Harve Bennett, Jack B. Sowards, Samuel A. Peeples, Nicholas Meyer, Leonard Nimoy, Steve Meerson, Peter Krikes, Lawrence Konner, Mark Rosenthal, Denny Martin Flinn, John Logan, Brent Spiner, Michael Piller, David Loughery
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post #1149 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 10:30 AM
 
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Odd if you follow them on twitter they make it sound pretty far from finished
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post #1150 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 11:21 AM
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I'm sure they'll re-release all the films to coincide with the new film next year, probably as individual releases with new extras and newer transfers.

Remember how they handled the films for DVD? First there were single disc non-anamorphic versions, going in retrograde order of release. Then, they re-released them as 2-disc anamorphic versions starting with the first film and going in sequential order.

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post #1151 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Mike TJG View Post

I doubt Paramount really cares about these films enough now to consider springing for such expensive remasters. J.J. Abram's remake is such a vast cash-cow for them that I'd imagine they want to pour their money into that franchise now rather than what is ultimately going to become the 'old-fashioned' Star Trek. Sad, really, but then the original Star Trek films were never big money spinners in the first place.

As I said, Paramount wouldn't need to spend any money to at least get satisfactory transfers because we can see from Xylon's "before DNR" screencaps that they already have them. Sure, they might not be frame by frame Lowry restorations like the Bond movies, but these grain-intact screencaps are my own personal definition of "remastered." Kind of like how the Blade Runner theatrical/international/director's disc on the blu-ray was "remastered."

Paramount wasn't just grainophobic with these blu-ray transfers, they were downright filmophobic. Any semblance of how these movies were shot and looked in the theater has been destroyed. What's most frustrating of all, as if it needs to be reiterated, is that if someone hates seeing film grain they can just crank up the noise reduction on their hdtv. It baffles me why the studios don't simply leave well enough alone when it comes to film grain. Sure, the occasional dirt and damage on a print will bring the PQ review down a few notches, but that's still way preferable to a wax job. Yes, some home theater enthusiasts like grain more than others, but none of us like it when DNR destroys the picture.

As for the money issue, Voyage Home was the most successful of the first six movies.

ETA: what dougotte said
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post #1152 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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They could do it as directors editions
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post #1153 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 01:26 PM
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What's most frustrating of all, as if it needs to be reiterated, is that if someone hates seeing film grain they can just crank up the noise reduction on their hdtv. It baffles me why the studios don't simply leave well enough alone when it comes to film grain.

They are trying to help the selling of displays to consumers who they apparently feel will expect that all high definition = the way high-def television looks. This sort of smoothing will probably diminish as the years go by and people come to accept a truly film-like look to things.

On the other hand, a whole lot of transfers I see that people praise for their film grain appear as if the grain has been digitally added.

CW Hinkle
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post #1154 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 01:51 PM
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On the other hand, a whole lot of transfers I see that people praise for their film grain appear as if the grain has been digitally added.

Any in particular?
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post #1155 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 02:24 PM
 
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Any in particular?

American werewolf in my view
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post #1156 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

As I said, Paramount wouldn't need to spend any money to at least get satisfactory transfers because we can see from Xylon's "before DNR" screencaps that they already have them. Sure, they might not be frame by frame Lowry restorations like the Bond movies, but these grain-intact screencaps are my own personal definition of "remastered." Kind of like how the Blade Runner theatrical/international/director's disc on the blu-ray was "remastered."

Paramount wasn't just grainophobic with these blu-ray transfers, they were downright filmophobic.

Totally agree. It's not like the 'before DNR' masters don't exist; Paramount used them extensively for the clips on the 'round table discussions' disc!

What's so frustrating about this careless revisionism is that the 'before' clips aren't awash with grain. Yes it's there, yes you can tell these are 'older' movies, but it's not particularly overt so why bother going to all that ADDED expense to get rid of it?

IRONY ALERT: what about all those recent movies that flaunt grain like it's the latest must-have accessory, which Paramount have been only too happy to put on disc unmolested? If the general public is so afraid of TeH gRaiNz then why not DNR the **** out of Transformers? Or Mi3? Or Indy IV?

Oh, and I never really appreciated the 'old master' argument for Trek VI before, but I watched it recently on my new 56" TV and the aliasing is soooo blatant.

As much as I think Paramount are absolute ****tards for doing this to the Trek movies, I'd happily pay full whack AGAIN for some sort of 'purist' edition because I want to see them done right. You hear that, Paramount? I want to give you even more of my money even though you've spat in the eye of the discerning fan with these tragic Trek platters.
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post #1157 of 1334 Old 03-13-2011, 04:52 PM
 
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I just wish that Sky still had UK broadcast rights, Channel 4 show the Bluray versions
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post #1158 of 1334 Old 03-14-2011, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

What's so frustrating about this careless revisionism is that the 'before' clips aren't awash with grain. Yes it's there, yes you can tell these are 'older' movies, but it's not particularly overt so why bother going to all that ADDED expense to get rid of it?

The general consensus is that they didn't go to any added effort or expense. They merely took the existing HD transfers, which were probably used for the DVDs and HD broadcasts, and which had DNR applied to them already.

Doug
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post #1159 of 1334 Old 03-14-2011, 04:45 PM
 
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The general consensus is that they didn't go to any added effort or expense. They merely took the existing HD transfers, which were probably used for the DVDs and HD broadcasts, and which had DNR applied to them already.
Doug

Er, no the Sky versions were HD broadcasts and do not have the DNR
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post #1160 of 1334 Old 03-15-2011, 01:47 AM
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And indeed the DVDs have very noticeable grain compared to the Blu-rays.
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post #1161 of 1334 Old 03-15-2011, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Er, no the Sky versions were HD broadcasts and do not have the DNR

Good point, and I did read that here, but forgot. Sorry.

Doug
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post #1162 of 1334 Old 03-15-2011, 05:10 PM
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The general consensus is that they didn't go to any added effort or expense. They merely took the existing HD transfers, which were probably used for the DVDs and HD broadcasts, and which had DNR applied to them already.

Doug

It must have cost a few simoleans to actually add the DNR though? We can plainly see that these transfers existed in a previous state, only for Paramount to run them through their trusty DNR-O-MATICâ„¢ machine.
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post #1163 of 1334 Old 04-18-2011, 11:03 AM
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Question: Will the UK single release of Star Trek: The Motion Picture play in Region A (U.S.) players? Thanks.

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post #1164 of 1334 Old 04-18-2011, 12:11 PM
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Yes it does.
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post #1165 of 1334 Old 04-11-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quick question: Do the US premium cable channels still use the pre-DNR masters when showing these movies?
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post #1166 of 1334 Old 04-11-2012, 07:05 PM
 
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Wow, a one year bump!

I know a lot of the geeks love to express their outrage and get very protective over SW and ST, but I have to say in the case of this six disk set, the anti-DNR brigade does in fact have a point. What's even more ridiculous is that ALL TEN ST films employ excessive DNR.

It is what it is; watch these flawed BR's or enjoy your DVD's.
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post #1167 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 03:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

Wow, a one year bump!

I know a lot of the geeks love to express their outrage and get very protective over SW and ST, but I have to say in the case of this six disk set, the anti-DNR brigade does in fact have a point. What's even more ridiculous is that ALL TEN ST films employ excessive DNR.

It is what it is; watch these flawed BR's or enjoy your DVD's.

Dvd's and hdtv for me, same as star wars
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post #1168 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 05:12 AM
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What's even more ridiculous is that ALL TEN ST films employ excessive DNR.

ST2 is fairly good since it got a remaster.
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post #1169 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 07:09 AM
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Trek VI was on cable the other day (HBO, I believe) and the wife turned to me and said, "They are so old. Look how much makeup they put on them."

No, it's not makeup. It's DNR. Tons of it. And it makes that film look like @ss.

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post #1170 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 08:22 AM
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Soon after their release, I rented all of them. My wife and I looked on in horror.

Just take your old DVD, press play, and then crank up the noise reduction settings on your player, receiver, and television. Yay! Free Blu-ray!
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