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post #1171 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

Wow, a one year bump!

I know a lot of the geeks love to express their outrage and get very protective over SW and ST, but I have to say in the case of this six disk set, the anti-DNR brigade does in fact have a point. What's even more ridiculous is that ALL TEN ST films employ excessive DNR.

It is what it is; watch these flawed BR's or enjoy your DVD's.

DNR and all, the ST TMP BR still blows away the DVD. The colors and contrasts are terrific -- there's simply too much DNR on it. For a die hard fan IMO they're still worth a purchase but obviously they could be much better.
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post #1172 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

Soon after their release, I rented all of them. My wife and I looked on in horror.

Just take your old DVD, press play, and then crank up the noise reduction settings on your player, receiver, and television. Yay! Free Blu-ray!

Not quite,you have to crank the contrast also.

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post #1173 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Not quite,you have to crank the contrast also.

How could I forget? How else can you bring out all the DEEEETALE!

I have hope, however misplaced it may be, that Paramount will unleash remastered (unfiltered) Blu-rays for the next film release in 2013. They have to do something different if they expect to have all 12 Star Trek films available for the next format (4K). Don't they?
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post #1174 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 10:23 AM
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Wrath of Khan was the only one that looked like film as it was a new scan. The rest looked extremely processed. A couple of them (such as 4?) looked absolutely awful.

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post #1175 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Trek VI was on cable the other day (HBO, I believe) and the wife turned to me and said, "They are so old. Look how much makeup they put on them."

No, it's not makeup. It's DNR. Tons of it. And it makes that film look like @ss.

Don't kid yourself. It's also heavy pancake makeup.

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post #1176 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 10:32 AM
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These releases were poor, but not close to the worst. Still miles better than the DVD.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
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post #1177 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

How could I forget? How else can you bring out all the DEEEETALE!

I have hope, however misplaced it may be, that Paramount will unleash remastered (unfiltered) Blu-rays for the next film release in 2013. They have to do something different if they expect to have all 12 Star Trek films available for the next format (4K). Don't they?

My guess is we will see the Director's Cuts at least appear next year, but hard to say if they are just from 2K masters or not.

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post #1178 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

These releases were poor, but not close to the worst. Still miles better than the DVD.

And inferior to the older, now ancient 1080i HD cable broadcasts, which are low bitrate compared to a DVD. Shouldn't be possible for Broadcast HD to have more detail vs BluRay.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...

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post #1179 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 12:40 PM
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I think the time and effort we're seeing on the NEXT GENERATION series bodes well for future restoration efforts on the original TREK films.
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post #1180 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

I think the time and effort we're seeing on the NEXT GENERATION series bodes well for future restoration efforts on the original TREK films.

Not the same company at all.
Paramount are still releasing BC titles with DNR.
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post #1181 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Wrath of Khan was the only one that looked like film as it was a new scan. The rest looked extremely processed. A couple of them (such as 4?) looked absolutely awful.

TMP was a newer transfer as well.

Space is actually *black* in it. Not dark grey like the other transfers.

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post #1182 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Trek VI was on cable the other day (HBO, I believe) and the wife turned to me and said, "They are so old. Look how much makeup they put on them."

No, it's not makeup. It's DNR. Tons of it. And it makes that film look like @ss.

There's DNR.

There's also tons of makeup. You could see it in the theater.

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post #1183 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

TMP was a newer transfer as well.

Space is actually *black* in it. Not dark grey like the other transfers.

Yes, because they crushed contrast resulting in plenty of clipping on both ends of the scale, never mind the loss of shadow detail and any subtlety in the color/contrast. Punchy, yes; improved or better absolutely not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

There's DNR.

There's also tons of makeup. You could see it in the theater.

No one denies the actors had make-up on them but it is the absurd usage of DNR, not the make-up, that resulted in the wax statue qualities exhibited in these rubbish transfers.

As others have mentioned the only one that looks decent is Khan but that has a different color timing, for better or worse. TNG films do not suffer as much from the DNR but they are still impacted as well, I can only stand to watch First Contact yet it to has evident DNR.

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post #1184 of 1334 Old 04-12-2012, 08:02 PM
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TMP transfer was acceptable it was nowhere near as bad as 4 or 6.

TMP audio kicked absolute arse though.
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post #1185 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 05:15 AM
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6 looks more detailed on the SE DVD. Enough said.
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post #1186 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

TMP audio kicked absolute arse though.

Couldn't agree more. One of my favorite soundtracks and it just sounds fantastic here.
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post #1187 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ Mike TJG View Post

6 looks more detailed on the SE DVD. Enough said.

Noise is not detail.

The DNR is also inconsistent, some scenes have little to severe.

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post #1188 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

I think the time and effort we're seeing on the NEXT GENERATION series bodes well for future restoration efforts on the original TREK films.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. Both the Original Series and Next Generation series are owned and are being restored by CBS Films. Paramount merely distributes those shows for CBS.

On the other hand, Paramount itself owns the movie franchise. CBS has no control over that.

If the movies are to be remastered or restored, Paramount has to do it.

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post #1189 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 09:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


Unfortunately, it doesn't. Both the Original Series and Next Generation series are owned and are being restored by CBS Films. Paramount merely distributes those shows for CBS.

On the other hand, Paramount itself owns the movie franchise. CBS has no control over that.

If the movies are to be remastered or restored, Paramount has to do it.

People really need to get that point, Paramount are just as DNR happy as Universal.
CBS are amazing so far.
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post #1190 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Noise is not detail.

The DNR is also inconsistent, some scenes have little to severe.

The DNR on Treks 4 and 6 is horrific and disgraceful and, as it has been shown all over the internet, those noise reduced BD's look inferior to the low bitrate MPEG2 broadcasts from years ago.

Seriously

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...

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post #1191 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The DNR on Treks 4 and 6 is horrific and disgraceful and, as it has been shown all over the internet, those noise reduced BD's look inferior to the low bitrate MPEG2 broadcasts from years ago.

Seriously

They are the worst out there by far.
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post #1192 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

They are the worst out there by far.

The Longest Day's atrocious BD holds that title IMO, but they're not far off. And don't forget Insurrection; I know it's one of the poorer Trek movies but nothing deserves to be wrecked like that with such heavy handed DNR.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would happily pay full price to buy unmolested transfers of all the Trek movies. They don't even have to be new transfers, as the movies looked very respectable in the untouched clips used in those 'Captain's Table' bonus discs. Paramount, my money is waiting.
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post #1193 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

The Longest Day's atrocious BD holds that title IMO, but they're not far off. And don't forget Insurrection; I know it's one of the poorer Trek movies but nothing deserves to be wrecked like that with such heavy handed DNR.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I would happily pay full price to buy unmolested transfers of all the Trek movies. They don't even have to be new transfers, as the movies looked very respectable in the untouched clips used in those 'Captain's Table' bonus discs. Paramount, my money is waiting.

I say Predator trumps day, and ST6 trumps them all.
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post #1194 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 12:41 PM
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I haven't seen Predator UHE with my own eyes, and I hope I never will.
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post #1195 of 1334 Old 04-13-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quick question: Do the US premium cable channels still use the pre-DNR masters when showing these movies?

Ahem... does anyone know the answer?

The BDs are so awful that I'd like to try to get better recordings from TV.
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post #1196 of 1334 Old 04-14-2012, 05:45 AM
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Do we have a "Hall of Shame" thread on the forum ? On it we could list, in order, the worst efforts by studios.

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post #1197 of 1334 Old 04-14-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

War atrocities are horrific and disgraceful.

Hysterical hyperbole over a video disc:

Seriously.

You stand alone in your opinion.

Seriously.

Quote:


Originally Posted by Jason One
Quick question: Do the US premium cable channels still use the pre-DNR masters when showing these movies?

Unfortunately, HBO now shows the DNR'd transfers for all the films. The last time I saw the unmolested TREK VI on cable was four or five years ago.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...

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post #1198 of 1334 Old 04-14-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post


You stand alone in your opinion.

Seriously.

As far as paramount is concerned we are all the minority here. They will receive FAR more complaints if they released these films without any DNR from the general grain hating public. These were mostly VERY grainy films in the theater. Unfortunately when it came to sci-fi in the 80's and 90's studios had a very low budget and us fans took what we could get.

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post #1199 of 1334 Old 04-14-2012, 10:06 AM
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As far as paramount is concerned we are all the minority here. They will receive FAR more complaints if they released these films without any DNR from the general grain hating public.

No they wouldn't. The "general grain hating public" doesn't walk out of theaters demanding refunds and complaining about grain. They don't watch grainy cable or Blu-Ray movies at home and call or email anyone to complain. They generally just don't notice it one way or the other.

And that's the sad part. The average person couldn't care less if a movie is grainy or slathered in waxy DNR. So releasing a properly transfered film on Blu-Ray with grain and detail intact doesn't impact anyone negatively. Its only the film buffs that care about video quality that get hit in the face with the DNR versions of films.
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post #1200 of 1334 Old 04-14-2012, 12:25 PM
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I'm very happy to see this thread get bumped.

The Star Trek movies are some of the most conspicuously terrible-looking catalog titles on blu-ray. The prospect of them cheaping out and never doing actual good transfers is a depressing one.

They'll obviously do another release of the movies.

For one thing, the longer cuts of Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country weren't included the first time, nor was an HD re-render of the TMP director's edition. For that reason alone, we'll see new blu-rays at some point.

The other thing is that here in the States we only have individual releases of 2, 4, 6 and 8. Yeah, there's that trilogy pack of 2, 3 and 4, but if you want 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 or 10 individually you need to go import or get them second hand.

So, I'm hoping Paramount takes this opportunity to acknowledge the glaring shortcomings of these transfers. Khan looks good, thanks to an actual remaster (no, the color doesn't bother me). Nemesis looks fine as well. Really, it's only eight of the ten movies that need new transfers and - as we've pointed out again and again - Paramount appears to already have decent-looking transfers for several of the films, they simply decided to make them look worse for the blu-ray!

Whoever's in charge of Paramount's home video division should be directed to the first page of this thread.

I really don't want November of 2013 to arrive with a pristine transfer of JJ Abrams' sequel and still leave us waiting for proper transfers of the older movies.
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