Terminator 2: Judgement Day comparison *PIX* PART DEUX - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

I'm not really convinced that grain is a problem for the masses. For one thing, they tend to view on smaller screens, or at least farther back, where the grain isn't going to be as visible. Second, for a while the biggest-selling title was 300. If the "grain" was such a problem, why did it sell so well? And The Dark Knight, with its issues, was also a huge seller. I think most people decide based on the content, without scrutinizing over things like grain.

There were issues with The Dark Knight???? Good thing I watched and enjoyed the BD before I read this...now i'll never look at it again w/o searching for flaws. D*** it!
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post #92 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 09:45 AM
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This transfer is very old, was created on out of date equipment and has been recycled too many times. Enough is enough. I can only pray that when Cameron finishes Avatar he will finally sit down and approve new transfer for ALIENS, THE ABYSS and T2.

And how about the first Terminator done right, with the original mono track in PCM. The current BD didn't even include the mono track in compressed D. They just left it out completely.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
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post #93 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troglobite View Post

Personally I think all three look hideous. Of the three, the Skynet has the least artifacting, etc added to the part which looks to be the original DI. I said too how the other two have lots of chroma noise too. It doesn't look like NR, but more Gaussian blur. Unless you consider a Gausian blur a form of noise reduction? I Also think a mild amount of unsharpen like mask was added before the application of Gaussian blur. I also think the original DI was fiddled with, similar to how you can use various processing to a camera raw using Photoshop ACR before loading a image.

The chroma noise, IMHO, is hiding and masking the problems in the other two. So they aren't necessarily better. But this is like arguing which soup tastes the least bad.

Basically, I'm thinking, no matter if you were to have a pixel for pixel representation of the DI used for this, it'd still look like garbage. Therefore, again IMHO, the Skynet is the closest in my eyes to what this particular DI looks like.


I agree that none of them look terribly good, so it is a bit about arguing over which piece of moldy bread tastes better, but the Studio Canal HD DVD still looks by far the best to me and is the only one where I really feel like I am actually seeing anything more than I do if I use that old WMV HD file on the old DVD set. The Skynet looks worst to me, I simply hate the artificial waxy look in movies, nothing is worse than that, 100% the opposite reason I got blu-ray for. Skynet is just too scrubbed of detail. At least some of the detail in the HD DVD over Skynet is definitely real detail and not just contrast/sharpening differences so I don't think you can say the skynet is closest to the DI used, which at most was probably just used for SFX scenes anyway.

I'm not so sure it is a gaussian blur since that it seems like some parts of the image were treated a little differently than other parts such as certain hard edges, so I'm doubting that abit, but anyway even if you are right, yes, I do consider that NR, even if a bit of a crude form of it, so it doesn't matter in the end whether you are correct about thte gaussian blur filter or not.

But yeah we need a properly done transfer.

We also need FOX to un-cancel Terminator:The SCC. It didn't get helped any by the writers strike and then being buried against MNF, more hiatus and then Friday night. And you wonder why it go so much HUlu,DVR,PC HD viewing.... Yeah FOX, you really did give it the best and most consistent chance you could've.... right. What a horrible time to cancel it, it basdly needed a S3 to at least let it go out feeling finished. Sort of like if ABC cancelled LOST right now and left us hanging.... And then the less worthy Sci-fi they actually save....
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post #94 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

the HD-DVD import from Europe is pretty good, it has a substandard slightly mushy master by todays 4k standards but it looks pretty good

can't wait for a super nice 4k pristine remaster and release from whoever, must be with directors cut though, it will be the last time I buy this film if something fits that bill comes along

-Gary

haha, never!
even if they do eventually release a pristine copy to end all copies, they will send an exec back from the future to have them removed from the shelves before sale.
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post #95 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

there is no comparison between the theatrical and directors IMHO, I can no longer what the theatrical version

-Gary

+1

well i can still watch it.... but it' snot the same.
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post #96 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 11:03 AM
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I like the pacing of the theatrical cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

What a horrible time to cancel it, it basdly needed a S3 to at least let it go out feeling finished. Sort of like if ABC cancelled LOST right now and left us hanging.... And then the less worthy Sci-fi they actually save....

You mean like what ABC did with Invasion?

"Out of the mists of history, the legendary Esquilax! A horse with the head of a rabbit... and the body... of a rabbit."
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post #97 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

During that time though, what was being released were generally movies that were (reluctantly) cut down for theatrical release. Nowadays, many, many movies are getting planned longer cuts, and some of us are realizing that longer is not always better.

but sometimes some scenes can add more depth

the chip scene, sarah in the hospital
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post #98 of 213 Old 05-23-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FitzRoy View Post

Nowhere near as severe as Star Trek. But, as with anything that's scrubbed, post-filtering out grain sacrifices an equal amount of fine texture detail, because the two are structurally indistinguishable. The cost always outweighs the benefit at any level that it's applied.

The most puzzling thing is that with CURRENT films, you'll see films shot with grain in the theater and then the blu-ray presentation is modified to remove it. That makes no sense, if anything the grain should be more annoying to viewers on a huge theater screen, yet it's the home versions that get claymated. (a) It's the same damn audience with a smaller screen, why would grain bother them at home and not the theater? (b) If the director didn't want grain in the film, why didn't he use a digital camera so that you get a grain free image that preserves fine detail?

exactly
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post #99 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Any luck getting this to play on Profile 1.0 players? I don't have one anymore but I am getting complaints from people I know that still have those 1st gen players.

I told them so many times buy a PS3.
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post #100 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

The transfer comes from an Inter Positive. DIs are from negatives.

Usually but not necessarily. The DI of TDK was from IP.
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post #101 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 04:16 AM
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Which version?
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post #102 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 11:44 AM
 
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Xylon can you do a few caps from the Sarah in Dyson's house scene,
There is a shot when you see her finger in the trigger guard (Just before John and the Terminator turn up as she is standing over them in the living room) that is full of grain on the Optimum.
Also there are some good shots in the weapons cache when the light is sreaming in
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post #103 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Xylon can you do a few caps from the Sarah in Dyson's house scene,
There is a shot when you see her finger in the trigger guard (Just before John and the Terminator turn up as she is standing over them in the living room) that is full of grain on the Optimum.
Also there are some good shots in the weapons cache when the light is sreaming in

Ok I will post that later.
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post #104 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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post #105 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:37 PM
 
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Cool thanks I just watched the Optimum today and it is still the best we have imoh
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post #106 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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post #107 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 01:39 PM
 
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Was the Dvhs transfer any good ?
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post #108 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Was the Dvhs transfer any good ?

More blocking, more artifacts. I wish I could put this up but for now I don't know which hard drive I dumped it.
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post #109 of 213 Old 05-24-2009, 09:42 PM
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Man that Skynet version so clearly looks the worst of the three. I feel bad for anyone who dumped their money on that one.

Blu-ray = 775
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post #110 of 213 Old 05-25-2009, 12:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

More blocking, more artifacts. I wish I could put this up but for now I don't know which hard drive I dumped it.

Same master, or was it older ?
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post #111 of 213 Old 05-25-2009, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Which version?

The 35mm parts were scanned from the IP (for cinema and home cinema).
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post #112 of 213 Old 05-25-2009, 10:41 AM
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More proof from Xylon of the Skynet fiasco...

A.P.S. deserve our protection....join the cause today!
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post #113 of 213 Old 05-25-2009, 11:10 AM
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post #114 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 02:55 AM
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I just finished watching the directors cut on Skynet, and while the screen shots do reveal some detail loss over the older ones, in my opinion, it's really not that bad. Hardly a fiasco like the Star Trek discs. Though I wouldn't mind a new master. I agree with the moldy bread analogy on the three.

Still, for 14 bucks at Best Buy, with a 50 dollar Sideshow card I may very well put to use, and a slew of extras and nice, if slow menus, being upped from a pan and scan VHS, DNR or no, I can't really say it was a waste of cash.
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post #115 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 05:15 AM
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Any chance of some screen caps from the night time war sequence at the beginning of the film? I watched the first couple of minutes on my larger TV last night and was surprised at how much blocking was present.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klingon Jedi View Post

Hardly a fiasco like the Star Trek discs.

No arguments there.
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post #116 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 06:43 PM
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Terrible, It may not be as noticeable on some screens but this is clear evidence of the turds lionsgate has been producing. They should not get away with releasing such bad discs. I think they go out of the way to ugly it up so the next version looks more attractive.
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post #117 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 06:55 PM
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I picked this title up and also have the UK HD-DVD. The Skynet is a bit softer than the HD-DVD, but overall, I much prefer this blu ray to the HD-DVD. Watched them both all the way through and I'm ready to sell the HD-DVD.
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post #118 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 07:47 PM
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I thought it would be interesting to compare the WMV-HD. Captured with FFDSHOW, resized and added black bars in photoshop.

Compare with the links...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...24&postcount=6


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...22&postcount=4


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...26&postcount=8
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post #119 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

I thought it would be interesting to compare the WMV-HD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...415&highlight=

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #120 of 213 Old 05-27-2009, 08:26 PM
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Even the 1440x816 wmv version looks better than the Skynet version. Sad.
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