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post #271 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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this is not a pretty significant difference?
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post #272 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 01:43 PM
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One would think.
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post #273 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Michael Mann supervised the transfer. Only the encoding would be out of his control, so the black levels, etc. are all up to the director, who is very hands on with this stuff.

Indeed. Mann is known to be even a bit obsessive about how his movies look on video. I recall a story from a contact then at Fox that Mann cost them a pile of money on the transfer of Last of the Mohicans.

If Mann supervised/approved the this transfer of Heat, then I'm certain this is how it is supposed to look.

BTW, I've seen a "version" of this new transfer and I think it looks terrific. The lighting and color balance looks "right" to me.
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post #274 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

BTW, I've seen a "version" of this new transfer and I think it looks terrific.

Stay away from those illegal rips, Robert.
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post #275 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 03:41 PM
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To be honest i always thought the "washed out" look was what Mann wanted. Or maybe thats what he wanted when heat came out in theatres. Its seems like a double edged sword, on the one hand we can now have something like a directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven (which i think makes it a great movie), on the other hand we have Friedkin and his version of French Connection. At some point i like the idea of a director saying "thats it, im done with this piece of work", and moving on. Then again would anyone fault Picasso for moving an eye or a boob around from an earlier work when he was older? Which work would
be the "right" one?
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post #276 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art vandalay View Post

Which work would be the "right" one?

Whichever one you want.
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post #277 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

this is not a pretty significant difference?

Is that from Heat or Goldmember?

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #278 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

this is not a pretty significant difference?

Yeah, when zoomed up.
I didn't zoom when viewing the shots from the website originally.

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post #279 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 05:32 PM
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Some people think this looks too dark, like NBNW is supposed to be "too dark" Is that going to be the new complaint with catalogue titles, now that they know they can't moan about grain ?
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post #280 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Michael Mann supervised the transfer. Only the encoding would be out of his control, so the black levels, etc. are all up to the director, who is very hands on with this stuff.

I guess he didn't supervise the LD and the DVD transfers then which other then the vertical squeeze were identical to one another as far as the black level concerned. I own both.
I don't know which level is correct, since I don't have the theatrical print for comparison, but if he's so hands own, where was he the last 3 times around?

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post #281 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stwrt View Post

Some people think this looks too dark, like NBNW is supposed to be "too dark" Is that going to be the new complaint with catalogue titles, now that they know they can't moan about grain ?

You need to wise up and understand what being said here. If you can prove me that the new black level is exactly how it was originally then I'll be just fine with it. The problem is this is the 4th time this makes it to a disc format in the last 14 years, and just now they figured out that the black levels were incorrect on all previous versions? And no I'm not the grain police there are others who worry about that.

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post #282 of 562 Old 10-27-2009, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

You need to wise up and understand what being said here. If you can prove me that the new black level is exactly how it was originally then I'll be just fine with it. The problem is this is the 4th time this makes it to a disc format in the last 14 years, and just now they figured out that the black levels were incorrect on all previous versions? And no I'm not the grain police there are others who worry about that.

+1 to the above.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #283 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

You need to wise up and understand what being said here. If you can prove me that the new black level is exactly how it was originally then I'll be just fine with it. The problem is this is the 4th time this makes it to a disc format in the last 14 years, and just now they figured out that the black levels were incorrect on all previous versions? And no I'm not the grain police there are others who worry about that.

If there is anything wrong with this disc, I'm willing to bet the house that only a tiny number of consumers will say it's the black level .
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post #284 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 03:10 AM
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hopefully there'll be a review soon that will specifically state what content changes were done.
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post #285 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 03:47 AM
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Another Blu-ray Disc - another different look - another series of posts saying which one is 'best', with no original source to use as a comparison.

Listen, the DVD may be right, the Blu-ray Disc may be right, and we'll almost certainly never know.

Steve W
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post #286 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 04:38 AM
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post #287 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 08:20 AM
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CIH set up owners' nightmare.

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post #288 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

BTW, I've seen a "version" of this new transfer and I think it looks terrific. The lighting and color balance looks "right" to me.

The transfer may be great, the problem is that Warner worked their magic in the authoring stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

But just as an aside, unfortunately "encoding" can still include the application of things like DNR and EE.

Exactly.
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post #289 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

You need to wise up and understand what being said here. If you can prove me that the new black level is exactly how it was originally then I'll be just fine with it. The problem is this is the 4th time this makes it to a disc format in the last 14 years, and just now they figured out that the black levels were incorrect on all previous versions? And no I'm not the grain police there are others who worry about that.

Grading film into video is a completely subjective process. If the video version gets sign off by the director and looks pleasing that is about all you can hope for in a video master. There is no "right" only a successful mastering or a less successful one.

Comments like "If you can prove me that the new black level is exactly how it was originally then I'll be just fine with it" are somewhat meaningless in the context of film to video transfer.

digital film janitor
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post #290 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 09:06 AM
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Robert Harris at HTF had this to say concerning Heat:
Quote:


Once one gets past the marketing "sizzle" of two actors who once had roles in the same film, but never worked together, Heat can be accepted for what it is -- an extremely high quality police / crime drama about the definition of levels of good and evil.

A great many words are unnecessary here. Warner Home Video has harvested an image and pressed it to Blu-ray for a high level of perfection.

Great film.

Beautiful Blu-ray.

Highly Recommended.

RAH

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post #291 of 562 Old 10-28-2009, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Still no word on any of the changes to the film? There was speculation about the running time being shorter from a picture of the back cover of the BD a while back.

Can anyone with the disc answer this ??
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post #292 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

While this publicity still was released to the press after the movie was released, that shot does not appear in the movie. The entire coffe shop scene is filmed in reverse-angle-reverse coverage, where you only see the back of one actor's head while the other is speaking.

Michael Mann insists that they were in the same room together during the filming, but there's no evidence of it on screen. If they really were together, Mann missed a prime opportunity to let the actors play off one another.

I love the movie, but I think Mann blew the staging of that scene.

The only shot in the entire movie where both actors are visible at the same time comes when Pacino pulls DeNiro over. Quite frankly, that might even be an optical composite.

Sorry, Josh, but exactly how would having a two shot prove they were on set together? Have you never heard of a split screen?

Personally, I like the way the film was shot just the way it was.

Further, if, by some chance, Mann was completely lying and the two were never together, then who the hell cares? Does it make the movie any less than it is?
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post #293 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 12:21 PM
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I have had the US version delivered today by Movietyme (fantastic service by them by the way), I have a couple of queries though.

For one, at certain points the image does look rather dark, even when the film is set in "daylight" conditions.

===Spoiler Ahead====

More worryingly, I spotted what I believe to be some audio distortion on the True HD soundtrack. When the big shootout is almost done and Sizemore's character is running away from the police he runs through what seems to be a outdoor café and you can hear the sound of women screaming. This sounds very distorted through my system, I can hear the audio crackling and breaking up, on my BD player its at 1hr 52min 45-48 seconds.

Can anyone else confirm this on their Region A copy?

Many thanks,

Ben.
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post #294 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenUK View Post

I have had the US version delivered today by Movietyme (fantastic service by them by the way), I have a couple of queries though.

For one, at certain points the image does look rather dark, even when the film is set in "daylight" conditions.

===Spoiler Ahead====

More worryingly, I spotted what I believe to be some audio distortion on the True HD soundtrack. When the big shootout is almost done and Sizemore's character is running away from the police he runs through what seems to be a outdoor café and you can hear the sound of women screaming. This sounds very distorted through my system, I can hear the audio crackling and breaking up, on my BD player its at 1hr 52min 45-48 seconds.

Can anyone else confirm this on their Region A copy?

Many thanks,

Ben.

I don't know blu-ray, but it sounds little hars in dvd too, but nowhere near bad what jp3 sounds in scene when sam neill says "nobody move a muscle" and then t-rex screams.
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post #295 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenUK View Post

===Spoiler Ahead====

More worryingly, I spotted what I believe to be some audio distortion on the True HD soundtrack. When the big shootout is almost done and Sizemore's character is running away from the police he runs through what seems to be a outdoor café and you can hear the sound of women screaming. This sounds very distorted through my system

The audio during the shootout was the orginal sound recorded on location. So I guess it can be a "flaw" of the unusual way the sound was created.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #296 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

The audio during the shootout was the orginal sound recorded on location. So I guess it can be a "flaw" of the unusual way the sound was created.

Still, the snippet should have been re-recorded.
How tough is that?

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post #297 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Sorry, Josh, but exactly how would having a two shot prove they were on set together? Have you never heard of a split screen?

It isn't about proving that they were in the room together. It's about letting the actors interact with one another and play off each other's performances. Which they aren't allowed to do now.

Quote:


Further, if, by some chance, Mann was completely lying and the two were never together, then who the hell cares? Does it make the movie any less than it is?

No, but it does make that scene less than it could have been, IMO.

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post #298 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 02:28 PM
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The two are never seen together because of the nature of what the film is trying to do.

The scene is a microcosm of the whole film, that each is looking into a mirror at himself.

Showing both in the same shot would explode the myth.

Steve W
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post #299 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 02:31 PM
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post #300 of 562 Old 10-29-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

It isn't about proving that they were in the room together. It's about letting the actors interact with one another and play off each other's performances. Which they aren't allowed to do now.

Um, huh? They were both there, how were they prevented from "playing off" one another? That baffles me.
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