Warner promo vs Blade Runner / 300 / V for Vendetta comparison PIX - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Warner promo (tag line "This is how our movies are meant to be lived" - from Final Destination Blu-ray):

Code:
Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
VC-1 Video              17006 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 3

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:01:09.611     17,006 kbps     40,721 kbps     00:00:36.911    29,894 kbps     00:00:35.452    26,082 kbps     00:00:30.572    89,572 bytes    402,409 bytes   00:00:37.078


-vs-

Blade Runner: The Final Cut - 16.88Mbps VC-1
300 - 16.80Mbps VC-1
V for Vendetta - 12.53Mbps VC-1

Mouseovers here (hit Stop on this thread to not waste time downloading from both servers)

Sadly there's only one interesting scene from each movie in the promo.

One of the other movies included in it is The Dark Knight, but the scene used is actually an IMAX shot matted to 2.35:1 that never appeared in the movie. Just the Joker walking towards camera, tossing his knife from left hand to right (in the movie they do a cutaway so the switch happens offscreen).
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post #2 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 07:47 AM
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Holly DNR on The Final Cut!!
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post #6 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

Holly DNR on The Final Cut!!

I knew it was there but I never knew it was that bad.
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post #7 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 08:37 AM
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They sure did a good job on removing the digital noise on The Final Cut without losing any definition. Great job.
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post #8 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 09:35 AM
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Thank you very much for the caps msgohan, excellent work as always!

BTW, did you have a chance to check out SPHE Japanese version of Equilibrium?

I checked out Johnny Mnemonic and it's great.

From what I'm seeing on the titles dicussed on the thread bellow, I wish every catalog belonged to Sony.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168332


Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

Holly DNR on The Final Cut!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

I knew it was there but I never knew it was that bad.

I had claimed this long ago, I even posted caps (taken by whiggles) comparing the Final Cut to the Archival Versions, but many dismissed me.
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post #9 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 10:02 AM
 
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when or are these promo versions planned to come out?
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post #10 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Mouseover link added to OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBC View Post

BTW, did you have a chance to check out SPHE Japanese version of Equilibrium?

Never even seen Equilibrium. Looks like the movie itself got pretty bad reviews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBC View Post

I had claimed this long ago, I even posted caps (taken by whiggles) comparing the Final Cut to the Archival Versions, but many dismissed me.

It is definitely DNR'd in parts, but personally I was thinking the main difference in these Blade Runner caps was due to the higher bitrate during this section of the promo (this shot is the high spike on the graph).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post

when or are these promo versions planned to come out?

This is just a promo/advertisement/trailer featured at the start of another movie's Blu-ray showing what they have for sale. There aren't any plans to re-release these movies.
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post #11 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Indeed, I've scanned the BDInfo of The Final Cut and the disc with the Archival branched cuts, and the AVBR and peaks of TFC were severely limited by the inclusion of the 3.76Mbps TrueHD track. With 24-bit audio, BD-25, and the need to keep under HD DVD's bandwidth limits all at the same time, something had to give. The Archival has both higher AVBR and higher peaks thanks to the lack of lossless, but still not as high as this section of the promo.

Now here's the promo vs the Archival Versions encode (all cuts use the same M2TS for this part).

Mouseovers here







They.. uh.. replaced her face.
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post #12 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:40 PM
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^I was under the impression it was a complete re-shoot of the scene?

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post #13 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

^I was under the impression it was a complete re-shoot of the scene?


In all versions prior to The Final Cut, it was fairly obvious that it was Joanna Cassidy's (sp?) stunt double in a wig crashing thru the glass.

For the Final Cut, they brought Cassidy back in & reshot her falling in front of greenscreen (she was in full costume). They then did the "head swap" of the current Cassidy footage & dumped it into the original footage.

And of course all thoe other FX gaffes & whatnot (even some bad Harrrison Ford lipsync/ADR errors - Ford's eldest son was filmed mouthing the dialog & his mouth was comp-ed onto Ford's face) were corrected for Final Cut.

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post #14 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnj1958 View Post

They sure did a good job on removing the digital noise on The Final Cut without losing any definition. Great job.

The definition is lost in the grain. Smoothed over grain = smoothed over picture.
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post #15 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 06:47 PM
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Does the DC of Blade Runner have DNR also?
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post #16 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 07:00 PM
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I'd do dirty things for an unDNR'd version of Blade Runner...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnj1958 View Post

They sure did a good job on removing the digital noise on The Final Cut without losing any definition. Great job.

That's not noise, that's ultra-fine grain that's the result of a high quality modern transfer.
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post #17 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

I'd do dirty things for an unDNR'd version of Blade Runner...

And I'd do dirty things for a re-encode of 300 at higher bitrates. :P

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post #18 of 57 Old 08-05-2009, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

Does the DC of Blade Runner have DNR also?

Not sure about the few separate branches, but those "Archival Versions" shots are used for all the cuts on Disc 3, so.. you decide.
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post #19 of 57 Old 08-06-2009, 03:58 AM
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Nice, the promo shots of 300 are better encoded than the actual movie. Gotta love Warner's dedication to quality.
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post #20 of 57 Old 08-06-2009, 07:56 AM
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Ugh:

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/...0911/picture:8

I noticed that a lot of Warner's low-bit rate dark scenes look similar to these. I was watching Constantine a couple of weeks ago, and noticed similar artifacting. I'm not going to say it's simple to spot in full motion, but I notice it without "trying" to find it (maybe developed a sensitivity to it).


Side note -- people managed to get Warner to do a replacement for Matrix Revolutions because of 1 frame. Perhaps if we all call and tell them that every frame is messed up on Blade Runner?

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post #21 of 57 Old 08-06-2009, 03:24 PM
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Great work, msgohan!

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post #22 of 57 Old 08-06-2009, 03:36 PM
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Here's the HFView angle: (makes me a little sad of how close we were to getting the ultimate BR )




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post #23 of 57 Old 08-06-2009, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

Side note -- people managed to get Warner to do a replacement for Matrix Revolutions because of 1 frame. Perhaps if we all call and tell them that every frame is messed up on Blade Runner?

The replacement is already in the Blade Runner BD set, it's called the Director's Cut. Beats me why this only being noticed now, just viewing the Final Cut and DC and going by memory alone one can tell the DC has more film grain and (as a result) more detail.

Which why I consider the Blade Runner BD as the standard as for how classic movies should be handled, if the studio wants to make an 'improvement' for those that dislike film grain, it should also include a warts and all version for those that do not mind film grain. Plus it was not just another DVD master slapped on a BD disc.
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post #24 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Mouseovers here (hit Stop on this thread to not waste time downloading from both servers)

Yes, yes, WB and their low bit rate overdeblocked encodes. How much we lose here is very well demonstrated in this mouse over.
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post #25 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Which why I consider the Blade Runner BD as the standard as for how classic movies should be handled, if the studio wants to make an 'improvement' for those that dislike film grain, it should also include a warts and all version for those that do not mind film grain. Plus it was not just another DVD master slapped on a BD disc.

This is not an improvement for people who dislike film grain. It's simply an overcompressed encoding with way too much deblocking going on. The Fincal cut master does not look like this. The BD does.
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post #26 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 03:47 AM
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Warner Bros hasn't figured out compression yet.
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post #27 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

This is not an improvement for people who dislike film grain. It's simply an overcompressed encoding with way too much deblocking going on. The Fincal cut master does not look like this. The BD does.

I was referring to detail loss due to a degrain filter not bitrates.
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post #28 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 08:13 AM
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What was the bitrate during the Blade Runner Final Cut Blu-ray?

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post #29 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Around those timestamps I think it's 20-23Mbps according to the graph.

The actual size of each frame is written on them in bytes next to "Coded frame size".
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post #30 of 57 Old 08-07-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

The replacement is already in the Blade Runner BD set, it's called the Director's Cut. Beats me why this only being noticed now, just viewing the Final Cut and DC and going by memory alone one can tell the DC has more film grain and (as a result) more detail.

Which why I consider the Blade Runner BD as the standard as for how classic movies should be handled, if the studio wants to make an 'improvement' for those that dislike film grain, it should also include a warts and all version for those that do not mind film grain. Plus it was not just another DVD master slapped on a BD disc.

So you're saying the DC looks more like the "PROMO" screen shots? I haven't watched it (only saw Final Cut), so I wouldn't know...

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