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post #811 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 09:38 AM
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So is it just the IMAX version that has the audio problems? I'm getting mine from Amazon hopefully that's the constant 2:35:1 AR and the good audio.

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post #812 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthV View Post

Guess it depends if it's just a level difference or not. If it's down a few dB, just turn it up


Exactly. If it is simply a volume dif, then no problem, BUT if it is somehow a dif track/mix then that is a problem (if you want the best audio presentation).

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post #813 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Just throwing out an amateur guess, but perhaps the sound mix on the IMAX film was different from the 35 mm release, and perhaps what we got in the Big Screen Edition was not only the IMAX picture, but the IMAX sound mix.

If that's the case would there be any difference in the audio on the non-IMAX scenes?


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post #814 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dx31698 View Post

So I dont know if anyone else has said this, but when I walked into my Best Buy today, all they had were the Big Screen Version of this movie. I thought it was exclusive to walmart.

Anybody see this?

bestbuy.com shows Widescreen, but not "Big Screen." Are you sure your BB copy says "Big Screen" (supposedly a Wal-Mart exclusive)?
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post #815 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 10:08 AM
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I rented the DVD last night just to make sure it's a movie I'd want to own. I thought it was great so I ended up picking up the Big Screen edition this morning from WM. I can't wait to watch it again on BR.

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post #816 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 10:09 AM
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IMO the IMAX soundtrack is fine, it just doesn't seem to be encoded as 'hot' as most other DTS MA tracks are (ie The Incredible Hulk). On my Onkyo 705 (bitstreamed thru an Oppo BDP-83) I had it turned up -11 and on most other movies I have it at -15. There is definitely not any lacking in the low end/bass department, that's for sure!

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post #817 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 10:10 AM
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Can someone sum up what the state of all of the discs are? I have the Blu-ray disc from Best Buy and I just bought the Special Edition one for $19.99 from Walmart. However, my Blu-ray player died yesterday so I haven’t been able to watch either of them.

Do both discs have IMAX scenes in them? Does the Walmart one have more IMAX scenes? Is the Walmart on entirely in IMAX?

Is there a significant difference in audio?
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post #818 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Can someone sum up what the state of all of the discs are? I have the Blu-ray disc from Best Buy and I just bought the Special Edition one for $19.99 from Walmart. However, my Blu-ray player died yesterday so I haven't been able to watch either of them.

Do both discs have IMAX scenes in them? Does the Walmart one have more IMAX scenes? Is the Walmart on entirely in IMAX?

Is there a significant difference in audio?

There's only ONE version with the 1.78:1 IMAX shots, and it's the big screen wallmart's. Any other special/ultimate/Starscreamtronbee edition is the constant AR version. Wallmart's Big Screen edition has some longer shots during some of the IMAX scenes (a few secs), because the IMAX version of the film was "longer" as well.
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post #819 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Are you bitstreaming or player-decoding?

I tried both bitstreaming and PCM with the IMAX version and same results for the audio. After reading all the posts from this forum and from Blu-ray.com and High Def Digest most people are saying the volume is definitely lower. A review from blu-ray.com confirms the audio difference.

Official www.blu-ray.com review of IMAX version confirms this:

Please note: it does appear that the soundtrack accompanying this IMAX version does lack the same amount of power and heft as that found on the standard release. This is still an amazing soundtrack in every regard, but the low end isn't quite as powerful and the sound effects perhaps not quite as loud. Two scenes were sampled several times in succession: the opening studio logo sequence and the forest battle in chapter nine. The IMAX version's DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack is still loud, aggressive, crystal-clear, and makes excellent use of the low end and the surround channels, but it packs just a bit less punch when compared to the standard 2.39:1 release and at the same reference volume level and utilizing the same settings on the same Blu-ray playback device.
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post #820 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bases1616 View Post

I tried both bitstreaming and PCM with the IMAX version and same results for the audio. After reading all the posts from this forum and from Blu-ray.com and High Def Digest most people are saying the volume is definitely lower. A review from blu-ray.com confirms the audio difference.

Official www.blu-ray.com review of IMAX version confirms this:

Please note: it does appear that the soundtrack accompanying this IMAX version does lack the same amount of power and heft as that found on the standard release. This is still an amazing soundtrack in every regard, but the low end isn't quite as powerful and the sound effects perhaps not quite as loud. Two scenes were sampled several times in succession: the opening studio logo sequence and the forest battle in chapter nine. The IMAX version's DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack is still loud, aggressive, crystal-clear, and makes excellent use of the low end and the surround channels, but it packs just a bit less punch when compared to the standard 2.39:1 release and at the same reference volume level and utilizing the same settings on the same Blu-ray playback device.

Strange. Not sure why it would be encoded differently (if that's the case, and not just recorded "lower"). Either way, the copy I have from Best Buy sounds fantastic.

Stephen.

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post #821 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 11:55 AM
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I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

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post #822 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:20 PM
 
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I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

Reading through this and the other thread, I was thinking this was possibly a difference in the dialnorm setting. I'm not at home to confirm, but if anyone with the "standard" widescreen version would check to see if the dialnorm setting is -31 dBfs (will show up on the receiver as "+4").
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post #823 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:24 PM
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Guys,

I am confused now. If I increase the volume by 4 dB from reference level will it sound like the regular BD?

Blu-ray : 340
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post #824 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:29 PM
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Can someone point me to a link that explains what 'reference level' means? My audio system is calibrated, but I have no idea what 'reference' is.

I know this is off topic but I don't expect to discuss it here. If someone could just PM me a link or info, that would be great.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #825 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:30 PM
 
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I am confused now. If I increase the volume by 4 dB from reference level will it sound like the regular BD?

If dialnorm is in fact the reason for the difference in level, and the difference is in fact 4 dB, then yes. These things have to verified, though.
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post #826 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:41 PM
 
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Can someone point me to a link that explains what 'reference level' means? My audio system is calibrated, but I have no idea what 'reference' is.

In a nutshell, "reference level" is based on digital full scale. Calibrated test tone is set at 20 dB below digital full scale and 85 dB on the mixing stage. This allows for a peak level of 105 dB.

85 dB is rather loud for the home environment so it has been common practice for consumer electronics manufacturers to attenuate the test tone by 10 dB. This is why we set our channel levels to 75 dB using the generated test tone.

The purpose of this is simply to recreate to relative level of the soundtrack as produced on the mixing stage. The levels of various sounds in the various channels relative to each other are only heard as mixed at reference level. Lowering the volume on most systems tends to make the sourrounds and LFE less audible relative to the main channels when played below reference level.
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post #827 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 12:46 PM
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My playback of Big Screen Edition gave me dialog norm of -4. Playback chain is an Oppo BDP-83 & Denon AVR-3808CI. HDMI v1.3 throughout.

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post #828 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:01 PM
 
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My playback of Big Screen Edition gave me dialog norm of -4.

If I recall Denon's decoder implementation, "-4" means the level is actually 8 dB below the level of a track with dialnorm set to the maximum level. If the standard widesreen version is -31 dBfs, as is most often the case with DTS-HD MA tracks, then the IMAX version will play significantly lower.
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post #829 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:35 PM
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I went to walmart yesterday to try and see if my local walmart had the price mistake. I just moved to this area and I'm not sure I want to make another trip to walmart anytime soon.

All of the Blu-ray copies were sold out. By my guess they had about only less than 20 copies of the blu-ray. They literally had HUNDREDS of the DVD edition. I was like "Are you serious?". Near the front of the building they were stacked in a crappy box hanging everywhere. Walmart or the production company certainly screwed up. They should know that Blu-ray is gradually taking a marketshare. Just look at the percentage of the X-men Wolverine movie that were sold on Blu-ray.

Of course everything is Michael Bay's fault regardless.
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post #830 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post

I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

Brad

Brad what receiver and player are you using? Good info thanks!
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post #831 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:46 PM
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^^

They didn't screw up, they got you in the store. The online price is ~$24 at Walmart. The "Deal" on the BD version was most likely a loss taken to get people into the store to buy other stuff, and probably a limited run. Later you'll see the disk at a higher price. Or it'll be out of stock forever...
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post #832 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:49 PM
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So some people are showing -4 dial norm and some 0. I can't imagine the dialnorm setting should vary between receivers. The average DTS-HD track is usually +4 db so if youlike watching material with dialogue at the same level a decrease in 4 db is needed. Question is are some walmart copies show a difference of 4db? Meaning some dial norm at 0 and others -4?
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post #833 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojita View Post

I went to walmart yesterday to try and see if my local walmart had the price mistake. I just moved to this area and I'm not sure I want to make another trip to walmart anytime soon.

All of the Blu-ray copies were sold out. By my guess they had about only less than 20 copies of the blu-ray. They literally had HUNDREDS of the DVD edition. I was like "Are you serious?". Near the front of the building they were stacked in a crappy box hanging everywhere. Walmart or the production company certainly screwed up. They should know that Blu-ray is gradually taking a marketshare. Just look at the percentage of the X-men Wolverine movie that were sold on Blu-ray.

Of course everything is Michael Bay's fault regardless.

Sounds like my Walmart... their BD section consists of a single end cap and it looks like it's been rapped. I complained to a manager and said "so you sell all these TV's and BD players that are HiDef but no movies to watch on them?" It's rare that I look to Walmart for anything but when I do I just do SiteToStore shipping.


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post #834 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 02:31 PM
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I just finished watching my "big screen,imax,walmart,super duper edition". I had heard so many bad things about the movie itself that I never made it to the theatre to see it, but I will tell you it was drastically better than my, admittedly low, expections. I thought it was better than the first one, which I can't say was citizen cane to begin with but entertaining none the less. As for the pq, phenominal!!! The only thing I found distracting about the imax material, much like in TDK, was that the increased resolution made me wish the whole movie was like that. Also, even though original aspect ratio is most important, I kind of like the fact that 20 some odd percent of my 54 inch screen is not getting wasted by black bars. I will warn those that are distracted by the change in ratio that it seems to bounce back and forth a lot more than in TDK. The non imax scenes' pq are much better than in TDK though (I still can't believe people think that transfer wasn't that bad when it came to the 35mm stuff), so that may help ease the distraction. As for the audio, I have no other version to compare to, but I will tell you that I had to turn the volume up a little higher than normal for optimal levels. With that said, this may be the best soundtrack I have ever heard. I use the analogs out of my panny bd55. My sub actually bottomed out when the helicopter flew over megan foxs' head. If the other versions are better, well then....... !! My best guess, since I seriously doubt thay actually produced two different mixes (common sense people), is that they just dubbed in the volume a little lower on this edition. I am no audio technician/expert, but that would make the most sense to me. I would be willing to bet that, in a double blind test with the two versions tested side by side and volume equalized,an unnoticeable difference would be observed. But like I said, I only have one version. Anyways, thats my take
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post #835 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 02:36 PM
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i just got back from walmart i didnt see them carry the big screen edition

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post #836 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

If I recall Denon's decoder implementation, "-4" means the level is actually 8 dB below the level of a track with dialnorm set to the maximum level. If the standard widesreen version is -31 dBfs, as is most often the case with DTS-HD MA tracks, then the IMAX version will play significantly lower.

So the imax version is 8db lower?

home theater addict
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post #837 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 02:54 PM
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I also noticed that the oomph wasn't there when I watched it last night.i had to turn up the receiver louder than usual and it still didn't sound as good Transformers does.
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post #838 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 03:13 PM
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Theres nothing wrong with the DTS HD-MSTR track, just turn your gear up by five dbs.
A lot of early Warner titles TruHD tracks are mastered 5dbs too low, Batman Begins is one that comes to mind.
Nothing is lost, actually something mixed "hot" like Street Fighter: the legend of Chun Li- looses dynamic range.

EVERYTHING IS FINE, UN-WRAP AND WATCH.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
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post #839 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 03:14 PM
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Just wondering if the Wally World version triggers "night mode" or something similar like some True HD tracks do.

It figures, I probably go to Wally World twice per year and I made it a point to go just for this disc and the audio is different. I'm in to blu-ray for the audio more so than I am the video.

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post #840 of 1362 Old 10-21-2009, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Player-decoding.

Here's what I mean: In a movie like Cloverfield, explosions have so much more to it than just the LFE's. You get the very crisp, fine crackles of what it hits. Or in The Departed when you hear glass smash you get a nice crinkle with it, or when guns fire you really get an extra "pop" with it. Again, not bass-heavy, but just nice and loud (in fact, watch the second scene I believe where DiCaprio is firing at a target on the default mix and you'll get what is similar to TF2, but change it to LPCM 5.1 and you get something that sounds much better). It's a very full, enriching sound along with whatever else is involved (surrounds, bass, etc.). In Transformers, when the robots hit each other and metal clanks, it's almost nothing. When the oncoming car hits them when they're being hoisted by the helicopter, it sounds like a simple nick. When guns fire, it sounds like a video game gunfire. Watch Quantum of Solace for the latter two examples in the opening scene. Very enforcing and impacting.

I totally agree and for so long I couldn't put it into words why some movies just sound so much "fuller" than others. Thank you.
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