Gladiator Master Blu-ray Comparison and Review Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 02:48 AM
 
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still, just let him know what crap they are doing with his movie
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post #392 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post


I had vowed not to participate in this thread, because even though I agree with the basic argument that this release is subpar and should be recalled, the collective vein-popping frenzy going on around here (which in a way is its very own brand of "edge enhancement" ) had just been a bit too much for me... but your one-upping an already funny picture deserves some credit; absolutely hilarious!
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post #393 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Godbluffer View Post

... the collective vein-popping frenzy going on around here (which in a way is its very own brand of "edge enhancement" ) had just been a bit too much for me...

True but I guess it just shows how much people care about this movie and the format in general.

I keep going back to the Braveheart-thread. It´s like ointment for my eyes.

I´m from Austria so ignore bad spelling and grammar, please. :)
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post #394 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowlander View Post

True but I guess it just shows how much people care about this movie and the format in general.

It's undeniable that for most it comes from there, but I still think a lot of people in these quarters tend to go - or rather FALL - overboard to the extent that they almost drop off the planet.
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post #395 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 04:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Godbluffer View Post

It's undeniable that for most it comes from there, but I still think a lot of people in these quarters tend to go - or rather FALL - overboard to the extent that they almost drop off the planet.

I think it's because we're movie fans and this was a huge release with very high expectations. I thought this was going to be top knotch when i read it was being released on a new Sapphire series and with Ridley Scott being the director and it winning so many Oscars i figured they would go the extra mile especially since we were getting both cuts of the movie and a whole lot of extra's.

I think it's also because of that fact that they have given us both cuts and lots of extra's which means they will not be releasing this again for many years. Not next year or the year after or the year after that. This is it. Unless of course enough people complain and do it politely and let them know we are unhappy.

It's good to have passion for things. If you are a movie fan this is a passionate thing. I feel strongly against what has happened to this release but i'll try and keep calm and post nice.

One of the reasons i joined this forum many years ago and stopped going to AV Forums in the UK was the fact they seem to lack the technical expertise that is seen at this forum and don't see the issues or gloss over issues too easily. They praise so many sub standard releases and are doing the same for this film. Even their reviewers don't seem to see it.

Not an attack on that forum but i like how this one actually has members who know what EE and DNR is and respect the fact it shouldn't be on high definition discs.
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post #396 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x43x View Post

Here is Paramount's response:

A Screen Shot is quite different from a Blu-Ray experience. I hope you take the opportunity to view the entire movie.

Now I will avoid this title on principle. Too bad an entry-level CSR is allowed to filter this kind of feedback.


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post #397 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 06:30 AM
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Anyone want to compare to the DVD?


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post #398 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 06:59 AM
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OK, I have seen GLADIATOR and BRAVEHEART. As some of you may know, I split my time between NC and NYC. When in NYC I sometimes get to watch movies with a friend on one hell of a setup and he gets many BD's early. Especially Paramount BD's.

Just let me say tha BRAVEHEART is amazing. We watched the first 45 minutes and were truly impressed.

Before that we compared GLADIATOR to my now very old DVHS copy recorded from HBO when it first was shown (which means it has a pretty good bitrate as it was prior to DISH adding more compression to their HD feeds).

Hands down, the old open matted (1.78:1) DVHS wins because it is less filtered and not suffering from so many DVNR problems, as shown here. Yes, from time to time the HBO version has some compression issues, but they are not a big deal. It's obvious the 1.78:1 and OAR (BD) transfer were made at the same time. No surprise there.

What is clearly on display here is Paramount taking what was a mid-level transfer (because of its age) and applying additional filtering and noise reduction, for reasons unknown, making what was passable look terrible.

This was on a huge screen. Well over 100 inches. The DVNR is absolutely impossible not to spot at that size.

Most with small screens won't notice or care, so expect Paramount to admit nothing. Have they admitted their FACE/OFF and UNTOUCHABLES screw-ups? Have they admitted to wrong-doing with STAR TREK? Of course not.

Looks like I will not be able to retire my DVHS deck or years to come.

Again, for the haters out there... BRAVEHEART looks fantastic. No complaints. We even watched about 30 minutes of the UK HIGHLANDER release as a comparison (because it has the same look and feel of both films) and despite some DVNR here and there I can say it is well worth buying because it is far more good than not so good. I am not so insane that every frame has to be perfection. So please, nobody accuse me of being too picky because that is not what is going on here. What is going on is Paramount has yet again tried to screw us.

P.S. I am typing on a tiny little laptop so apologies if my typing sucks. These keys are insanely small.

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post #399 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakophyte View Post

Anyone want to compare to the DVD?

I really wish that we would have that direct comparison also.
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post #400 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweakophyte View Post

Anyone want to compare to the DVD?

I added some to the first page.
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post #401 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

OK, I have seen GLADIATOR and BRAVEHEART. As some of you may know, I split my time between NC and NYC. When in NYC I sometimes get to watch movies with a friend on one hell of a setup and he gets many BD's early. Especially Paramount BD's.

Just let me say tha BRAVEHEART is amazing. We watched the first 45 minutes and were truly impressed.

Before that we compared GLADIATOR to my now very old DVHS copy recorded from HBO when it first was shown (which means it has a pretty good bitrate as it was prior to DISH adding more compression to their HD feeds).

Hands down, the old open matted (1.78:1) DVHS wins because it is less filtered and not suffering from so many DVNR problems, as shown here. Yes, from time to time the HBO version has some compression issues, but they are not a big deal. It's obvious the 1.78:1 and OAR (BD) transfer were made at the same time. No surprise there.

What is clearly on display here is Paramount taking what was a mid-level transfer (because of its age) and applying additional filtering and noise reduction, for reasons unknown, making what was passable look terrible.

This was on a huge screen. Well over 100 inches. The DVNR is absolutely impossible not to spot at that size.

Most with small screens won't notice or care, so expect Paramount to admit nothing. Have they admitted their FACE/OFF and UNTOUCHABLES screw-ups? Have they admitted to wrong-doing with STAR TREK? Of course not.

Looks like I will not be able to retire my DVHS deck or years to come.

Again, for the haters out there... BRAVEHEART looks fantastic. No complaints. We even watched about 30 minutes of the UK HIGHLANDER release as a comparison (because it has the same look and feel of both films) and despite some DVNR here and there I can say it is well worth buying because it is far more good than not so good. I am not so insane that every frame has to be perfection. So please, nobody accuse me of being too picky because that is not what is going on here. What is going on is Paramount has yet again tried to screw us.

P.S. I am typing on a tiny little laptop so apologies if my typing sucks. These keys are insanely small.

Thanks Matt.

With only a 46" and 60" screen in the house, both will stay in the buy column.

When I pull the projector out of storage i'll complain then.
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post #402 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

I added some to the first page.

Thanks, I did not realize you did that...
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post #403 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:25 AM
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The DVD is inferior to the BD in terms of resolution and detail, but at least it has the complete picture without missing spears, arrows, fireballs and who knows what else. I still have a faint (probably desperate) hope that the European release by Universal might be better, otherwise I will skip this and hope for a recall. Instead, I will probably get Braveheart (although I wasn't planning to because I think it's a weaker movie, but I'm happy to reward a good catalog release).
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post #404 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I am not so insane that every frame has to be perfection. So please, nobody accuse me of being too picky because that is not what is going on here. What is going on is Paramount has yet again tried to screw us.

That bears repeating. I get very tired of all the apologists saying "well, lousy transfer X is ok with me, even though it's not perfect". Apparently, the concepts of "high quality" (as opposed to "perfect"), "doing your best", "shoddy", and "poorly done" have no meaning for them. I have to wonder if they EVER complain about poor goods and services.
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post #405 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Blasst View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post




Touché !!

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post #406 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:51 AM
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Hrmmm I gotta head over there to read some drama.

Ooo, that thread is quite comical.

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post #407 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

That bears repeating. I get very tired of all the apologists saying "well, lousy transfer X is ok with me, even though it's not perfect". Apparently, the concepts of "high quality" (as opposed to "perfect"), "doing your best", "shoddy", and "poorly done" have no meaning for them. I have to wonder if they EVER complain about poor goods and services.

And I don't understand comments like yours where you seem to want to impose your will on others. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Everyone has different levels of sensitivity to DNR and EE. Some people just don't care as much as you about EE/DNR. Why does that offend you? I have purchased a number of titles that have DNR and EE in them and guess what? I still enjoyed the movie immensely. It did not ruin the movie for me, and it was still the best version available to watch in my HT. So you can label me an "apologist" all you want, but it is my money and my choice.
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post #408 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

And I don't understand comments like yours where you seem to want to impose your will on others. Every one is entitled to their own opinion.

Exactly how am I attempting to "impose my will", as opposed to expressing MY opinion of the failure to distinguish between "perfect" and "well done"? Exactly WHERE did I say no one has a "right" to purchase something? I'll thank you not to make up something I never said.
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post #409 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 08:14 AM
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I threw on the original DVD of Gladiator last night and watched the "Hell Unleashed" sequence. Upconverted on my Blu-ray player, I thought it looked quite decent. Its justly famous DTS ES 6.1 soundtrack still packs a wallop. I will miss the extra oomph from the DTS HD Master on the BD, but at least the DVD has 6.1 so I will get sound from my rear speaker (I have my speakers in a 6.1 setup).

I am not going to feel deprived by not having the Gladiator Blu-ray/travesty in my collection. The SD DVD with flaming arrows and explosions intact will satisfy me more than a higher resolution BD with stuff missing.

I'll definitely be picking up Braveheart.
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post #410 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 08:21 AM
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No doubt the DVD is inferior. However, that does not mean the Blu-ray looks good.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #411 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 08:25 AM
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Well, the BD looks better for sure, but the #1 reason to buy BDs, increased detail, isn't a huge game changer here. The detail is better, but not by that much.
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post #412 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

No doubt the DVD is inferior. However, that does not mean the Blu-ray looks good.

Yes, it's the difference between "it looks better than the older format" vs. "it doesn't look anywhere near as good as it should on the newer format". Kind of like complaining to the chef at a gourmet restaurant that he didn't make the meal as good as he should, and him responding that it's still better than the Denny's down the street.
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post #413 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 09:21 AM
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if anything, one should buy this and do an exchange like sony did for the 5th element. if we are not paying customers, they won't listen =P. dunno if that made any sense =P

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post #414 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Exactly how am I attempting to "impose my will", as opposed to expressing MY opinion of the failure to distinguish between "perfect" and "well done"? Exactly WHERE did I say no one has a "right" to purchase something? I'll thank you not to make up something I never said.

This is what you said:

Quote:


That bears repeating. I get very tired of all the apologists saying "well, lousy transfer X is ok with me, even though it's not perfect".

How am I supposed to interpret this statement. You are entitled to your own opinion. I respect that. But so are others. If other people watch the movie and enjoy it, DNR/EE and all, that is their right and they are entitled to their own opinion. Why do you really care what "all the apologists" are saying? If they can watch the movie and enjoy it, so what?

And I will also repeat that I believe that people should at least watch the movie on their own equipment in the own environment before they rush to judgement because somebody else has the opinion that a certain movie is not up to standard for them. I realize that some people on this forum put PQ above everything else and get rattled by EE and DNR to the point where it ruins the movie for them. I am just not one of those people (and I am clearly in the majority). That is not to say that I am not dissapointed and transfers like Patton, Star Trek, etc. I am. But I still enjoy them on Blu-Ray. I had a number of friends over to watch TDK on Blu-Ray and we had a blast. Not one person complained about EE and thought it ruined the movie. I never even mentioned the debate here at AVS regarding that film, and if I did, I am pretty sure I would have gotten blank looks (none of the people I invited over were videophiles).
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post #415 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

That bears repeating. I get very tired of all the apologists saying "well, lousy transfer X is ok with me, even though it's not perfect". Apparently, the concepts of "high quality" (as opposed to "perfect"), "doing your best", "shoddy", and "poorly done" have no meaning for them. I have to wonder if they EVER complain about poor goods and services.

It's not so much expecting high quality in every aspect of the world, it is simply the reality of our world. Imperfections run abound. This is an example. Folks that choose to deal with it take a more pragmatic view of the world (or at least the hobby). That is what choice is about. Buy it or not.


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post #416 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OARmaster View Post

Because the screenshot scientists from the AVS horde told us so. Rent it and watch it in motion for yourself before making a decision. If you ever have a technical question...skip the amateurs. Go to Penton-Man.

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Originally Posted by OARmaster View Post

The AVS screenshot fools have taken up a letting writing and phone call campaign regarding Gladiator. I hope they remember to mention their forum and thread dedicated to this so these folks will know where to go when they want to point and laugh.

I'm all for getting the best release possible, but these silly boys and girls pull the same stunt over every single BD release...and almost always based on still shots rather viewing the actual disc in motion.

I guess the video(s) flew under these guys' scratch filters.



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lol
In cases like this, there are other more pragmatic options that have geometrically greater changes of success.
Get into another hobby where you will not feel so unfulfilled all the time with the products not meeting your expectations or get a smaller display and sit further back from it!
It amazes me how much time and effort some nerds put into trying to negatively influence others in regards to what they ‘consider’ to be for the ‘greater good’.

Translation – I want Gladiator to look as great as Braveheart, not just better than the DVD, and if it doesn’t for whatever reason, I’m going to do my damdest to try to convince every fence sitter on the internet that was contemplating a purchase, not to buy the product………and every purchaser of the movie, not to thoroughly enjoy their home viewing by planting the physiological seeds of doubt, missed opportunity, etc.

Did all the whining from the *screenshot* nay-sayers about Patton or Gangs of New York prevent Paramount from releasing the Star Trek stuff, as is?
Grow up!


Honest to God, I think there is more pragmatism shown amongst grade-schoolers at my niece’s school than there is among some people that post on some internet forums.

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Originally Posted by benricci View Post

Well said. I swear, it seems like some of you don't even enjoy movies half the time, because you're too busy with your score cards grading picture quality and noting the time code where a speck of dust appeared in the print.

Get over yourselves. If you truly love Gladiator as much as you say you do, you'd buy the damn blu-ray and quit worrying over whether a freaking tiny arrow is less defined than it could be.

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^^^ My nomination for post of the year ^^^

Talk about planting seeds.


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post #417 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 10:07 AM
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I recently watched the DVD on my Oppo 980H and 52" screen and it looked great. I would normally go ahead and buy the BD version but, after reading this thread I think it will be rent it and see. If its as bad as everyone says, Paramount will only get their share of the rental from me.
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post #418 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

if anything, one should buy this and do an exchange like sony did for the 5th element. if we are not paying customers, they won't listen =P. dunno if that made any sense =P

why should they listen then when they have already received your money?
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post #419 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

*snip*
Talk about planting seeds.


I didn't even realize that site even had a forum. Isn't that the site that gives virtually every release 4 or 5 stars?

They seem to be more attached to the format itself rather than the appreciation of a high quality presentation(which is, ironically, the purpose behind the creation of the format.)

If all this forum did was bitch and whine about "Ever other single release" than the whole of the forum wouldn't be slobbering over (and rightfully so) the only other Sapphire release - Braveheart. Wonder how they would explain that? Did the entire forum just arbitrarily decide to praise Braveheart and dump on Gladiator?

It can't be denied that this is a sub-par release. It's just of poor quality relative to what should be expected and what is possible on the format. What makes it worse is the contrast with the extremely high quality Braveheart release. The fact that it's basically on par visually with the old HBO presentation of the movie with added extremely high levels of digital manipulation (parts of the image are erased completely!) is all that needs to be said.

That being said, I don't think any of this will get Paramount to change anything and personally I don't care all that much (not the biggest Gladiator fan, much prefer Braveheart) but to call the release any less than "lackluster" is kind of silly. It is.
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post #420 of 2846 Old 08-26-2009, 10:20 AM
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Before blaming Paramount, I thought that Universal handled the Gladiator BR while Paramount handled the Braveheart BR. Those expecting any imports to be an improvement might be in for a rude awakening. You might be blaming the wrong people for this.
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