Gladiator Master Blu-ray Comparison and Review Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 01:39 AM
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At first i didn't think the BD looked so bad in the other thread. But seeing these pics, especially compared to the unmolested extended scenes, really makes me sick
Why do the studios need to tinker with the image? It's great as it was before!! How do they not see this? We want to see pores, threads, fine detail!! not wax!

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post #32 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 01:40 AM
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Damn, I bought into this format looking forward to own titles like Gladiator in high definitionAnd now we get this, an old transfer "freshed up" with DNR and EE looking worse than the HDTV broadcast version! You`d expect the studio to take care and do their best to present their flagship titles in the best way possible, but they did not botherdid not BOTHER! I am very dissappointed.

It hurts, but I will pass this one, it will be a rent at best
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post #33 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 01:46 AM
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Having an off-loadable HD PVR is priceless!
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post #34 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 01:47 AM
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I knew my DVHS looked damn good despite measly 14 Mbit/s MPEG2. Oh, what could have been with 30 Mbit/s AVC! But no, we get this dreck instead. Thanks, I'll pass. I prefer my DVHS by far.
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post #35 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

The automated noise reduction software erased some of it! In shot 7 it also erased most of the flaming arrows.

That is really weird. Also look at the fireball in the trees on the right-hand side. There seems some strange blueish blob on it on the BD version!? Are you sure it's the same frame (sure looks like it)? If it is, something or someone did unacceptable damage to the picture.
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post #36 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

holy damn. where are the apologists now...?

I'm sure the self proclaimed "HD Guru" will be here defending it soon

Thanks again OP for saving me $$$s
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post #37 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henke007 View Post

Well, when i google translated that German review from Area HD the rewiever stated that there were big difference in detail in the extended scenes hence the theatrical, so that Uni disc seems to be cut from the same cloth, and that would mean even the UK is the same right

Yep but I rarely trust areadvd.de. Some slightly reliable German review sites are:

www.hd-reporter.de
www.blurayreviews.ch

Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

I'm sure the self proclaimed "HD Guru" will be here defending it soon

Thanks again OP for saving me $$$s

This forum has taught me a lot on DNR / EE.

Btw, there are many self proclaimed gurus out here who likes defending the Studios.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #38 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:47 AM
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New encode, same transfer/source, same issues/filtering. This goes for both the UK and German Universal Studios editions. Cancel your order while you can ;-)

(sorry for the double post)
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post #39 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:52 AM
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Those BD shots are pretty !@#$ing awful. One shot will have massive EE halos and another shot will look like something out of Clay/Dark City. And then you have nasty scratch removal artifacts on top of that. Completely undefendable.
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post #40 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

New encode, same transfer/source, same issues/filtering. This goes for both the UK and German Universal Studios editions. Cancel your order while you can ;-)

(sorry for the double post)

Thanks very much.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your order has been successfully cancelled. For your reference, here is a summary of your order:

You just cancelled order placed on Aug 2009.

Status: CANCELLED
____________________________________________________________ _________

1 of Gladiator (Limited Edition Steel Book) [Blu-ray] [2000]
By: Russell Crowe, Joaquin Phoenix

Sold by: Amazon's Jersey Merchant, Indigostarfish.com

Blu-ray : 340
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post #41 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 02:53 AM
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I've just posted a 1-star review at Amazon. (Cemetery Mink)

I hope you will all do likewise (and 'like' any review on Amazon's page that warns people about the DNR) That really is the best way to get the message out to people.

Hopefully, if there's enough of an outcry, a big title like Gladiator will finally get a proper release in the near future.

Sony eventually figured out how bad there 'Fifth Element' was, and acted accordingly. I would think Gladiator is even more deserving.

(Meanwhile, at least I can still buy Braveheart this month, so that's something)
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post #42 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:12 AM
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DVDBeaver claims the image looks "magnificent" but neither the shots in this thread or their page looks anything close to magnificent.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare7/gladiator.htm

It's all processed and given the quality of the extended scenes I don't see why. It's a sad state of affairs when a broadcast looks better than a disk.

Strangely DVDBeaver also reviews Braveheart which is part of the same "Sapphire" series and the image quality does to me look excellent.

Both movies are vastly overrated IMO but I know a lot of people are waiting for Gladiator so you'd think it would be treated with more respect.
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post #43 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:19 AM
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Pre-order cancelled.

I am pissed at this. One of my favourite movies.

Cheers,
Paul Cordingley
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post #44 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrXym View Post

DVDBeaver claims the image looks "magnificent"

The reviewer seems to have had access to the MPEG2 broadcast but found the Blu-Ray better. It seems he [...] forgot to put his glasses on. Very disappointing.

Edit: The review was updated and seems to more fairly reflect the image quality issues now.
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post #45 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:26 AM
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[quote=DrXym;17047415]DVDBeaver claims the image looks "magnificent" but neither the shots in this thread or their page looks anything close to magnificent.

/QUOTE]

Yes. The un-zoomed caps look magnificent. Once you zoom it looks Gillette.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #46 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

The reviewer seems to have had access to the MPEG2 broadcast but found the Blu-Ray better. It seems he is either incompetent or forgot to put his glasses on. Very disappointing.

The BEV stream happened to be my HD demo source for quite some time a few years back (as it was likely yours...). It certainly has its fair share of issues but most of the running time it was a standout in detail and definition (and it comes with the usual pretty high BEV MPEG2 bitrate - so compression was fine).

My wild, unqualified guess is the reviewer at hand (Gary Tooze) is watching the whole affair on a plasma/LCD sitting at the other end of the room. In this situation the "contrast enhancement" of the BD will likely appear preferable to the less filtered HD stream.

Welcome to the wonderful world of mass-market ;-)
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post #47 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:40 AM
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Whats annoying is that they actually have a pretty good master, and somehow decided not to use it.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #48 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

The BEV stream happened to be my HD demo source for quite some time a few years back (as it was likely yours...).

I chose Gladiator BEV to showcase my plasma to a potential buyer about 2 years ago...
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post #49 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:43 AM
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I knew it ;-)
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post #50 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

The reviewer seems to have had access to the MPEG2 broadcast but found the Blu-Ray better. It seems he is either incompetent or forgot to put his glasses on. Very disappointing.

The reviewer just has bad eyesight, I assume. DVDBeaver also gave glowing reviews to Dark City, The Longest Day, Amadeus, Salo and a whole bunch of other abominations. (Didn't check if it was one incompetant reviewer or several)

Fortunately, because it is a visual site, it's still useful no matter how bad the reviewers.

The funny thing is, for a while, DVDBeaver seemed to be improving. They were actually learning about DNR, discussing it in reviews, etc. but clearly it didn't take.
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post #51 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

eesh. Just look at the difference around the word GERMANIA...

To me it looks like the c4 and BD text has EE but the BEV doesn't. Am I correct?
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post #52 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2060 View Post

To me it looks like the c4 and BD text has EE but the BEV doesn't. Am I correct?

The c4 broadcast's artifact doesn't look like EE to me. It looks like ringing caused by vertical resampling. You can see a similar problem right at the top of the frame, where the black 2.35:1 border begins. There's no ringing in horizontal axis.
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post #53 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 04:28 AM
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Is it a spare thats been cut in half by DNR at the left in the germania pick, it looks like a tree in the background, whatever it still spells disaster.

HD DVD 300+
BD 500+
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post #54 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Whats annoying is that they actually have a pretty good master, and somehow decided not to use it.

After watching the extended scenes that are of digital intermediate quality I'm not really impressed with the older unfiltered master as much. This film could look astonishingly good.

Even as bad as this release looks, it will probably still sell extremely well. One would think the cost of creating a brand new transfer could easily be recuperated on a title like this. The film isn't that old and probably wouldn't need too much work.
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post #55 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

After watching the extended scenes that are of digital intermediate quality I'm not really impressed with the older unfiltered master as much. This film could look astonishingly good.

Even as bad as this release looks, it will probably still sell extremely well. One would think the cost of creating a brand new transfer could easily be recuperated on a title like this. The film isn't that old and probably wouldn't need too much work.

It could look even better, but they could at least used the best master that exist today, and even better create a state of the art master for this.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #56 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 05:26 AM
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Selling a 9 year old movie in a new format and charging $27 for it and it not being of the utmost quality is ridiculous and we have every right to be mad.

If the average selling price is $20 and they sell a million, that's $20 mil. How much do you think it would have cost them to rescan the prints and make sure it is high quality? Certainly a tiny fraction of what they will make from it.
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post #57 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 05:37 AM
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Pretty bad... But is still HD

For $27 is is worth it to me. I am still very much aware that I used to pay $30 - $60 for the average 480i / DD laser discs. So, for $27 I'll take this great piece of film making and deal with it. This would have been a $60 release back in the day. If it is even 10% than the DVD, I'll buy it. It couldn't be worse as the DVD looks piss poor on my 14' screen.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #58 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Pretty bad... But is still HD

For $27 is is worth it to me. I am still very much aware that I used to pay $30 - $60 for the average 480i / DD laser discs. So, for $27 I'll take this great piece of film making and deal with it. This would have been a $60 release back in the day. If it is even 10% than the DVD, I'll buy it. It couldn't be worse as the DVD looks piss poor on my 14' screen.

I guess it comes down to how much money you have. I have plenty BDs on my list I havnt purchased for economic reasons. So Gladiator went down on that list.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #59 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Pretty bad... But is still HD

For $27 is is worth it to me. I am still very much aware that I used to pay $30 - $60 for the average 480i / DD laser discs. So, for $27 I'll take this great piece of film making and deal with it. This would have been a $60 release back in the day. If it is even 10% than the DVD, I'll buy it. It couldn't be worse as the DVD looks piss poor on my 14' screen.

I agree Im still hanging onto my pre-order. I got rid of my SD version.

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post #60 of 2846 Old 08-23-2009, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I guess it comes down to how much money you have. I have plenty BDs on my list I havnt purchased for economic reasons. So Gladiator went down on that list.

Not really the money at all. I buy more for the film than the absolute PQ/AQ. There are a lot of perfect PQ/AQ films that I would not dream of buying. I might buy 5-10 BD discs a year as only find that many films worth watching in a given year. Gladiator is in my top 10 films of all time. It is now on Blu Ray, so it is easy math to buy it regardless of PQ issues.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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