Gladiator Master Blu-ray Comparison and Review Thread - Page 41 - AVS Forum
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post #1201 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 08:48 AM
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After reading all the negative comments I wasn't planning to pick up Gladiator but Bestbuy deal has made it a no brainer (because I was already planning to pickup Braveheart). With the gift card, both movies will end up costing me about $15 total and I think no matter how bad Gladiator is, it would be worth it.

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post #1202 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Calibration isnt the issue here, were not talking about the color being off or the highlights being blown out.... were talking about EE and digital removal of high frequency information in the picture.

If calibration can be an issue as why some don't see the problems on there HDTV then it can most certainly be and issue with there computer monitor as to why they may not see the problems or trust screenshots. Contrast and brightness being too high or too low on a computer monitor can make those screenshots look worse or better then they actually are. Therefore, if one compares the screenshots to there HDTV they may see a difference and not trust screenshots anymore.

Please don't give me a blank "calibration isn't the issue" statement when people have brought up HDTV calibration as a reason why some don't see the problems. This is why there are those of us that get tired of these threads, when someone slightly turns ones argument around the other way, suddenly that argument isn't valid anymore.

If you are going to say that not calibrating your HDTV may be why some do not see as many issues then, you must accept the fact that improper PC monitor calibration could be a reason why some do not trust screenshots. That was my point.

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post #1203 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Schils View Post

this is the best version avail to me right now.

But how can it be the best version if it's missing picture elements. If one likes the movie for the movie itself (instead of being a technical geek), then IMO the Blu-Ray is not the best version. Either the HD broadcast or the DVD would be the better choice.
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post #1204 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by peterpioli View Post

Bill Hunt's review is fairly good. The Gladiator Blu-ray seems worth buying.

What ? You call his recommendation that it be recalled a fairly good review ? !

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post #1205 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 08:58 AM
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I don't understand this talk about DVDbeaver caps, they look really bad too. Actually, they were the ones that triggered the whole discussion.

I don't know what they do, but DVDbeaver caps are always messed up. They don't reflect what's on the disc itself (curious though, Gladiator is one of their best sets).
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post #1206 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

That is true. The extended scenes look great and they're like 16 minutes of the movie? So about 91% pseudo HD garbage and 9% of good HD. Doesn't sound like a good deal.

I almost think they would have been better off just applying DNR and EE to the extended scenes as well to just make the whole movie consistent.
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post #1207 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:01 AM
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Very few reviews of Gladiator floating around. I guess paramount wanted a headstart on sales before sending out the review copies on this piece of garbage!!!

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post #1208 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Henke007 View Post

Very few reviews of Gladiator floating around. I guess paramount wanted a headstart on sales before sending out the review copies on this piece of garbage!!!

It appears that review screeners were not sent out for either Gladiator or Braveheart (which looks like a top notch transfer). Don't know why, but I doubt it is some crazy conspiracy theory...
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post #1209 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It appears that review screeners were not sent out for either Gladiator or Braveheart (which looks like a top notch transfer). Don't know why, but I doubt it is some crazy conspiracy theory...

The screener copies were actually wiped from existence by the big, bad DNR machine at Universal/Paramount.
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post #1210 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

The screener copies were actually wiped from existence by the big, bad DNR machine at Universal/Paramount.

Good one
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post #1211 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:40 AM
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Great way to launch a premium line of discs, cant wait for Forrest Gump to come out.....

Life is like a box of DNR and EE... you never know what youre going to get
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post #1212 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuma79 View Post

Great way to launch a premium line of discs, cant wait for Forrest Gump to come out.....

Life is like a box of DNR and EE... you never know what youre going to get

So did you watch them today?
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post #1213 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:52 AM
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I have a hunch they'll go 2 for 3 with the Scrapfire Series - just don't see them messing up Gump, not after catching wind of the Gladiator mess anyway (I honestly believe they simply goofed, not the rumor of intentionally sending out a sub par disc out of bitterness or merely being cheap, etc)..but with FG not showing until Nov (?), they really do have time to ensure there is no "Gladiator" repeat. We'll see I guess, maybe their rep, good or bad, doesn't mean jack to them, maybe it does, heh.

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post #1214 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

What ? You call his recommendation that it be recalled a fairly good review ? !

Art

I especially liked this part of Hunt's "recommendation: "So let me be clear: Gladiator on Blu-ray is watchable - especially if you have a smaller screen."

So, I need to just watch Gladiator only on my 20" LCD in the den to be happy with this release, and never let it near my 100" projector screen.
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post #1215 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schils View Post

i don't care for the overly at times processed look either, especially after having watched braveheart last weekend, much prefer that look (like damn near all of us)...but, i will say that the ee that has so many up in arms on the bd is imo at least, far more tolerable than the type of ee i've grown to hate on dvds. I just can't stand that true ghosting like effect it has, its like 1/4" off the edges of objects, looks like an extended protective force field, lol, where i don't see it like that on the bd (zoomed or not). A prime example of what i'm saying is the hunched over hosrseback grabs, the top/bottom/framing of the screen reveals true garbage (imo) on the 2nd image, does not look like that on the bd grab, sorry, just doesn't extend out like that, if at all. Its a different, less offensive ee look (of the two), i'm not seeing it 1/4" off the objects, but rather a glowing effect, "haloing" i think is the much more descriptive term.

I wish the flaws were not there at all of course, but the ee on the bd is the lesser of the two evils and i don't know how some say they find the ee loaded dvd upconverted look "just as good as the bd." i know, i know, this is blu ray, "beyond hi definition/perfection" and you don't wan't to settle for "better than dvd." not saying we shouldn't bitch, but heh, more power to ya. Lemme know when the superior verson comes out and i'll gladly buy that as well. (=

i hate to reward this major goof by uni/paramount, but its a no brainer since i've long since given away my dvd and even if not, this is the best version avail to me right now. I'll be picking it up and enjoying it several times in the coming years until/if a better disc comes out. I like owning the best version of favorite movies (that i can get), the rest of this is out of my power anyway.

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post #1216 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CochiseGuy View Post

So, I need to just watch Gladiator only on my 20" LCD in the den to be happy with this release, and never let it near my 100" projector screen.

Actually, that's exactly what I do with Star Trek III and IV. They're passable on my 23" LCD but on my 56" DLP the static grain gello is too distracting.
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post #1217 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

So did you watch them today?

who said anything about today?

Braveheart was very good though
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post #1218 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:28 AM
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Wow, the extended scenes look really amazing.

I would buy it, but the condition of the theatrical footage puts me off.

Plus, I don't want to buy it, then 12 months later a brand new "super duper" new HD master is produced and then released.

I will be skipping this in the hope that a new version will be released later down the line.

Many thanks to those involved for putting the comparisons up, it makes these forums invaluable.
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post #1219 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuma79 View Post

who said anything about today?

Braveheart was very good though

Well it just came out today so I figured you formed your opinion on it after watching it today.
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post #1220 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BenUK View Post

Wow, the extended scenes look really amazing.

I would buy it, but the condition of the theatrical footage puts me off.

Plus, I don't want to buy it, then 12 months later a brand new "super duper" new HD master is produced and then released.

I will be skipping this in the hope that a new version will be released later down the line.

Many thanks to those involved for putting the comparisons up, it makes these forums invaluable.


Agreed. You can't trust these studios anymore. I'd rather wait for reviews before spending money on garbage. I believe that there will be a double dip of Gladiator somewhere along the line. I trying to remember, wasn't there a fire in the movie library lot in Burbank for Universal/Dreamworks? Wasn't there sustained damage to archives. I'm thinking maybe there is no real master out there. I could be wrong.
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post #1221 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 10:57 AM
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I just finished watching the whole movie after purchasing it when Best Buy opened their doors this morning. Again, it was a good deal, especially after picking up Braveheart too.

I watched the extended version, and I had never seen these extended scenes before. Despite Gladiator being my favorite movie ever, I hadn't seen it in a couple years. Despite this, it was incredibly obvious when an extended scene started playing as the PQ went way up without any DNR/EE and detail was absolutely stunning.

The original cut of the film on this Blu-ray, as expected, looks very processed and digital at times and screams of DNR/EE which we're all aware of. It is very obvious to me that the studio used an old transfer, probably the original one for the DVD as many have speculated. But again, the extended scenes looked absolutely amazing.

One point of reference for top-notch PQ in my book is in chapter 17 around the 1:50 mark when you see the execution of the soldiers who failed to execute Maximus and then lied about it. That part is reference quality in my opinion and had the whole film been like this PQ-wise, we would all be giving very high praise.

You will not see any missing arrows, even if they had been accidentally edited out due to effects in some still frames. But most of the PQ is a let down and I am sure that even Joe Schmoe will be able to notice this right away, especially when they view the extended scenes. The differnce is night and day to me.

But overall I am happy to finally have my favorite movie released on Blu-ray. It's a disappointment in the PQ department, sure, but I've seen a few worse titles.

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post #1222 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hurleyjj View Post

I just finished watching the whole movie after purchasing it when Best Buy opened their doors this morning. Again, it was a good deal, especially after picking up Braveheart too.

I watched the extended version, and I had never seen these extended scenes before. Despite Gladiator being my favorite movie ever, I hadn't seen it in a couple years. Despite this, it was incredibly obvious when an extended scene started playing as the PQ went way up without any DNR/EE and detail was absolutely stunning.

The original cut of the film on this Blu-ray, as expected, looks very processed and digital at times and screams of DNR/EE which we're all aware of. It is very obvious to me that the studio used an old transfer, probably the original one for the DVD as many have speculated. But again, the extended scenes looked absolutely amazing.

One point of reference for top-notch PQ in my book is in chapter 17 around the 1:50 mark when you see the execution of the soldiers who failed to execute Maximus and then lied about it. That part is reference quality in my opinion and had the whole film been like this PQ-wise, we would all be giving very high praise.

You will not see any missing arrows, even if they had been accidentally edited out due to effects in some still frames. But most of the PQ is a let down and I am sure that even Joe Schmoe will be able to notice this right away, especially when they view the extended scenes. The differnce is night and day to me.

But overall I am happy to finally have my favorite movie released on Blu-ray. It's a disappointment in the PQ department, sure, but I've seen a few worse titles.

In case you're interested, here's my setup:

58" Samsung Plasma PN56B650 fully calibrated
Onkyo 705 receiver with 7.1 speakers from Elemental Designs
Viewed on PS3 80gb via HDMI to Onkyo 1080p with audio as 5.1 DTS-HD MA matrixed to 7.1 via PCM

I agree with your statements. Its not perfect, but I am also happy to have this on Blu, and at least its a noticeable improvement from DVD.
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post #1223 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Posted by hurleyjj: You will not see any missing arrows, even if they had been accidentally edited out due to effects in some still frames.

Are you saying that the flaming arrows do not appear to be missing when you watch the film in full motion?

Or are you saying you do not see the arrows?
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post #1224 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 11:43 AM
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Look T2 Skynet was the same thing, It looked like it was cleared up with DNR, But with a big screen it looked good to me, Sure it could be better but guess what they are not going to make a new version period. Maybe when a new format comes out, 4000k Resolution discs are something. There well not be a new gladiator disc either, its like the dvd version, The 2nd version dvd. It Bluray and its better than dvd anyways. So if you have a good system with HQV or something else you could smooth the picture if to much noise or Edging was used. there are way to go around it. RScott approved this Bluray discs, Sure Bladerunner looked good with him involved but i realy think we are stuck with this version....
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post #1225 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DCunited View Post

Look T2 Skynet was the same thing, It looked like it was cleared up with DNR

Actually T2 Skynet Edition is very soft, but it doesn't suffer from that waxy look. They filtered it when it was captured off tape, and then look to not have fiddled with it too much more. So it looks like a pretty natural presentation that's just overly softened.

Gladiator is apparently an older master which has been *heavily* DNR'd and *heavily* sharpened. This creates a digital and harsh look that is, depending on one's personal viewing preferences, quite awful. I don't think the 2 releases are in the same class from what I've seen.

More importantly, we can actually get good versions of T2 in HD
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post #1226 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 11:54 AM
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so no chance of new release and up to us to improve it via a good scaler/processor
BRAVEHEART seems stunning compared
in fact I'm more thrilled to soon watch BRAVEHEART on blu ray than GLADIATOR (and i loved it in 2000)
go figure
realism vs a bit to much effects CGI on Gladiator ?
historic authenticity vs historic revisionism ?
in a way Scott came back to history with KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (and thank God much less CGI).
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post #1227 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

It appears that review screeners were not sent out for either Gladiator or Braveheart (which looks like a top notch transfer). Don't know why, but I doubt it is some crazy conspiracy theory...

The last time a Paramount was late was the Star Trek Collection. That was a EE/DNR mess too.
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post #1228 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 12:07 PM
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You know I wasn't going to pick up Gladiator. But $45 for both minus $10 from Best Buy deal ($35) minus $5 Reward Zone Coupon ($30) minus $20 from in box rebate for previous DVD owners on both blu-rays ($10). After the 150 year wait for rebates, that makes them $5.00 each. I had no problem picking them both up.
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post #1229 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 12:09 PM
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Picked up both Braveheart and Gladiator at Bestbuy this morning. I ordered on line using the in-store pickup option. Good thing I did. I got there at 11:30AM and Braveheart was sold out! They did have about 7 copies of Gladiator though. I have Gladiator coming from Netflix. I will watch it before I open my copy of Gladiator. If I find it un-acceptable, I'll return it. Though for a price of $7.98, after store discount and mail in rebate, Im tempted to just keep it.

One thought though. Say it does get re-mastered. And they do offer some kind of consideration for those who bought this one. Will they want the proof of purchase tab off the current Bluray? The one we're required to send in for the current rebate? There is only 1 on the Bluray.
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post #1230 of 2851 Old 09-01-2009, 12:21 PM
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Also picked up both Gladiator and Braveheart at BB today due to the deal. Will watch Gladiator first so I don't get as infuriated after seeing how wonderful Braveheart looks first.
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