Gladiator Master Blu-ray Comparison and Review Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

While I get your point and see it in the close up shot, that is the same as me getting within a 2 foot of the screen, so for me it isn't realistic to be seeing the halos at this distance without zooming in like you did, which means I am not going to see them unless I get 2 feet from the screen. As I said in my previous post, I will probably see them when I get a big screen.

Seeing them on PC monitors is the same as zooming or getting within 2 ft like I did. I am sure those looking at monitors have their eyes with 2ft or less from the monitor.


I am not playing devil's ad or being a stick in the mud here and some who know me know that to be fact, but taking this position is what got me my first and only ban from a thread on AVS, and it wasn't Dark Knight, although I didn't see the halos on it either unless two ft away.

I own Master and Commander. I am curious. Those who own M&C and now own or have seen the Gladiator BD, is the PQ on Gladiator similar or at least better even with the anomalies? M&C has mediocre PQ IMO and I bought it more for the sound and the fact I got it cheap.


I know you don't see it just from our convo's over in the PQ thread. Again I don't take this thread here even as the be-all-end-all regarding this movie either, but it does give me pause as to whether or not I want to buy it ASAP when it is released (which is what I was intending originally) or if I'll rent it first and possibly buy it when it goes on sale.


Now, given both my husband and my best friend are huge fans of this movie, I may end up with a copy of this anyway.
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post #152 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

20-15 vision here, not that better or worse vision really is why some see it and some don't, but I have to get within a couple of feet to see the halos. I have been through this discussion over and over and some see halos more readily than others and some have trained themselves to see them .... really my display must hide them well.

I can see the halos in that pic on my 42" LCD from 10 feet back.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #153 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I'm a tad upset that I was looking forward to this release far more than Braveheart, and of the two only the latter was treated to a nearly flawless transfer.

However, as is always the case with these threads, I trust that actually sitting down and watching the movie in motion will be fine. One day I'll learn my lesson and actually just watch the damn things for myself before jumping into these discussions.

When you watch it 'in motion' the edge enhancement halos do not go away.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #154 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kobeson View Post

so do we know if the Universal transfer is the same as the Paramount one??

So these pics are not from the release that is due in September?

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post #155 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

So these pics are not from the release that is due in September?

Paramount has the rights to Gladiator in the USA, but Universal owns it for Europe and Australia, this is what I was referring to.
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post #156 of 2851 Old 08-23-2009, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gnj1958 View Post

I have it on good authority that Ridley Scott always comes to AVS and checks the screengrabs before authorizing his movies to BD or DVD.

Yeah yeah, that was sloppy writing on my part... meant to really say he sure didn't have any upclose and personals with any decent screengrabs. This is SO disappointing, especially considering how great Braveheart looks.

Gladiator BD = EPIC FAIL
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post #157 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

There is no hyperbole in my statement. My point is that the general "music loving population" is more than satisfied with the 99 cent downloads of low bitrate songs at the itunes store. And I happy admit that, by your definition, I am not sane. I pay attention to the details, and can tell the difference.

If you want to believe that, fine. But it has no relation to a picture encoding that is clearly faulty. Even if you accept that noise reduction and edge enhancement might be intended to cater to "the masses" of people with small screens who don't like grain, or are from a master that was intended for DVD and HDTV use, there is nothing subtle about and no excuse for filmed elements being removed or huge artifacts placed in the picture by some maladjusted image manipulation software. You are not helping the effort by equating these defects to "audiophile" elitism.
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There was a time, long past I guess, when HT was limited to people who cared about the details too.

Look, I've heard this arrogance a million times. If people don't hear or see what you claim to hear or see, they must have lower standards and "not care for the details", right? Come back to me when you have done a proper blind test. Until then, you should read "The Emperor's New Clothes".
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post #158 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 01:07 AM
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Gotta say, I don't think that blu-ray becoming mainstream has had ANY effect on DNR and EE.

Remember, even as a niche product, Blu-ray appealed in large part to the dullards that just wanted top of the line equipment, really bright, colorful pictures, etc.
(Sure blu-ray/hddvd also appealed to the serious film fans like me and most people here. But we were only a part of the niche)

If this were a result of blu-ray going mainstream, there should be a very clear increase of the percentage of DNR/EE disks from 2007 to 2008 to 2009.
I'm not seeing any such increase. It's all still pretty scattered. We're getting good releases and terrible releases.


Interesting FYI; Amazon seems to have blocked my Gladiator review. Weird. (Although I thought there was a very informative description of what 'DNR' is, for the average consumer; "you can get a similar sort of effect at home by smearing a large quantity of vasoline all over your television-screen")
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post #159 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 01:14 AM
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Has anyone made a petition or something? What does it take for them to re-release this thing like Sony did with "The Fifth Element" ?
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post #160 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Lavender View Post

Gotta say, I don't think that blu-ray becoming mainstream has had ANY effect on DNR and EE.

Remember, even as a niche product, Blu-ray appealed in large part to the dullards that just wanted top of the line equipment, really bright, colorful pictures, etc.
(Sure blu-ray/hddvd also appealed to the serious film fans like me and most people here. But we were only a part of the niche)

If this were a result of blu-ray going mainstream, there should be a very clear increase of the percentage of DNR/EE disks from 2007 to 2008 to 2009.
I'm not seeing any such increase. It's all still pretty scattered. We're getting good releases and terrible releases.

I agree. I think in most cases what we are seeing is the result of the recycling of older masters. This is an economic reality that we will probably have to live with to some extent (unless the sales of BD catalog titles improve). But in some cases the problems are being exacerbated by amateurish efforts of "remastering" or "image cleanup", and that is not by economic necessity ...
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post #161 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hurleyjj View Post

You know what, yes it's got digital enhancements (EE/DNR probably), but I'll still buy it. That doesn't mean I am happy with what the studio did, but I have been waiting years to have Gladiator with HD picture and HD audio.

Plus, although a huge fan of the movie, I have yet to see the extended scenes which were first introduced a couple of years ago. The fact that they look better will be a nice bonus, too!

Everyone was just as upset with The Dark Knight and I still bought it anyway and enjoy it. I do wish the studio hadn't doctored up the picture, but hey, it still looks great and it's the best quality you can buy.

Will it be years, if ever, until we get a better transfer on Blu-ray (or some future format like holographic discs, or what not)? Yes, probably, but again, this will be a good enough HD version for me until then. I'm sorry, but the upconverted DVD just doesn't do it for me, plus I'd like the extended scenes and HD audio.

I am not trying to change anyone else's mind here, and nor am I saying I don't support this thread. I am happy most of the community won't put up with it, are starting protests online or support groups against this kind of 'digital enhancement' to try and get the studio's attention. I sincerely hope it makes a difference and produces a result, too!

So for me it's a catch-22. I get an HD a/v experience of Gladiator I've always dreamed of. But at the same time, it's not as good as it could or should have been.


Sums up my feelings on the subject perfectly.
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post #162 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 02:38 AM
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I really hope the universal releases are better.

Honestly it looks almost like gangs of new york.
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post #163 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I really hope the universal releases are better.

Honestly it looks almost like gangs of new york.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I looked at some of the shots. What the HELL was Paramount thinking with this release? It should (but won't) be recalled and fixed.

Fight mediocrity: Insist on BD50 discs for all movies longer than 100 minutes, optimized video encodes that fully utilize the available space, lossless audio track, and new masters for catalog titles!
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post #164 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 04:36 AM
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It´s a disgrace.
Looking at the BD-screenshots actually makes me a little sick.
Somebody should send these to Ridley Scott!

Man, those extended scenes look good. That´s what the movie could have looked like if they had done a completely new scan. What gives, Paramount? This is GLADIATOR!
Paramount has the NERVE to call this the "Saphire series"? Who are they kidding? If the German version isn´t any better, I´m definitely passing on this one.

Go tell your friends!

I´m from Austria so ignore bad spelling and grammar, please. :)
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post #165 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

When you watch it 'in motion' the edge enhancement halos do not go away.

That's not the point. I am not claiming that they do, but I've hovered my mouse cursor over the Cancel button on a few titles after reading here about how "unacceptable!", "pure garbage!" and "utterly unwatchable!" several Blu-Ray releases were, only to go through with the purchases and enjoy an experience far better than my DVD counterparts, warts and all. It's one thing to gape in horror at a still shot, and another to make a critical assessment while actually watching the film in motion under normal conditions. I find that the two make for very different experiences. But that's me.
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post #166 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 04:54 AM
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Will Paramount be the studio releasing (some friggin' day already) Saving Private Ryan? I'm sure that would fall under their "Saphire Series"...though depending on how Gump turns out (if its as bad as Gladiator), they need to consider changing that to "Shaftphire Series."

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post #167 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Schils View Post

Will Paramount be the studio releasing (some friggin' day already) Saving Private Ryan? I'm sure that would fall under their "Saphire Series"...though depending on how Gump turns out (if Iits as bad as Gladiator), they need to consider changing that to "Shaftphire Series."

"fugazi" series...


"C'mon man, that's the real thing! That's a GREAT transfer"
"That's a fugazi..."
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post #168 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post



My eyes hurt looking at the EE around his head!! What kind of a MORON thought this was a good idea?!!!!!

Jesus that is some thick EE.

This title was treated with very little respect. They pretty much slapped their genitals with this title and approved it.
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post #169 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

It's one thing to gape in horror at a still shot, and another to make a critical assessment while actually watching the film in motion under normal conditions. I find that the two make for very different experiences. But that's me.

Depends on the problem. In my experience, edge-enhancement looks the same in motion as it does in still shots; so I'm not going to support those releases.

There are, however, some releases that render grain in such a way that still shots look terrible and motion looks fantastic. 'Battlestar Galactica' is probably the best example (the HDDVD,) I thought it was a great looking transfer (in terms of presenting the director's intent) then I happened to hit pause and all that great faux-grain, in freeze frame just looked weird and blocky and all messed up
Eyes Wide Shut is another example. It's not a perfect transfer in motion (I suspect there's been some subtle DNR and there is a hint of color-banding associated with 10bit > 8bit conversion (why, or why, couldn't blu-ray have 10bit color?) but it's basically a solid effort at recreating Kubrick's soft-looking film... Then I freeze-framed it, and the difference was the same as Battlestar Galactica.

But, so far, that particular grain phenomenon is the only time I've seen a movie look better in motion than in stills. EE is the same in stills and film (unless a specific shot is singled out. The Dark Knight is a tadunfortunate-looking, but that one shot of the funeral looks terrible in still and in motion. Fortunately, it's only one very brief shot and not indicative of the whole film (even so, it saved me a good $10 in not buying the movie until I saw it on sale a few months later))
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post #170 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MickeyDora View Post

Bigger question for me is this: Will the other review sites keep saying that this is a good release?

It is obvious that DVDBeaver got their copy early so once Blu-ray.com and HighDefDigest get their review copy if the claim that its a great release I will begin to believe that they are either been paid by the studios to give good reviews or they are too scared to give bad reviews since they may lose future review copies by pissing off the studios.

Yeah, how could the reviewer at DVDBeaver not see the obvious DNR and EE? I mean I could have done a better review and I'm a horrible writer.
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post #171 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:31 AM
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what edge enhancement?? I cant see it










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post #172 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:32 AM
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Buying this as a new release for $27 is just encouraging the studios to release sub par Blurays. Do you guys have nothing better to do that you just HAVE to buy the movie right now and watch it? You can't wait a few months? There must be other movies you haven't seen that might be good, go watch those and wait it out on Gladiator.
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post #173 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by williamtassone View Post

what edge enhancement?? I cant see it











Yeah, those white lines over his body is just his aura.
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post #174 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:42 AM
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Do you guys have nothing better to do that you just HAVE to buy the movie right now and watch it? You can't wait a few months? There must be other movies you haven't seen that might be good, go watch those and wait it out on Gladiator.

I've been waiting for years. Can you guarantee me that in a few months we'll see a far better release? If you could, I'd hold out. But how many of these threads have seen a rerelease as a result? I can think of one, perhaps two titles that were rereleased in short order due to quality complaints. And no, I don't intend to pay $27. I'll be grabbing it for a few bucks less than that.
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post #175 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:55 AM
 
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My new Oppo Blu Ray player actually has an edge enhancement feature. When i buy Braveheart i'll have to switch it on to a high setting so i can enjoy Braveheart in what i will lovingly refer to as Gladiator mode.

In fact from now on i will refer to edge enhancement as gladiator mode.

Friend comes and watches on my big screen and says "Whoaaaaa that picture looks awesome...wow it just pops off the screen it's like looking out of a window"

My reply will be "Yes i know i'm watching it in gladiator mode"
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post #176 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 05:59 AM
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Remember, most transfers being released today for older films were done years and years ago, back when EE and DVNR was standard to make easy porting over to DVD.

In addition, those transfers were done on very small calibrated monitors. So small that you just couldn't see these problems. In fact, those small monitors caused directors to ask for the image to be sharper.

Today it's different, usually, with the crew checking the transfer on a large screen. Unfortunately, nobody wanted to spend the money to redo GLADIATOR and it shows. It is an outdated transfer that cannot be saved. It's a crying shame too.

Meanwhile BRAVEHEART looks so good you would think it had been shot in 70mm.

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post #177 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Unfortunately, nobody wanted to spend the money to redo GLADIATOR and it shows. It is an outdated transfer that cannot be saved. It's a crying shame too.

If they just had used the same master as the broadcast version did, we would at least gotten acceptable quality.

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Meanwhile BRAVEHEART looks so good you would think it had been shot in 70mm.

A bit heavy on the grainside for that. I guess Gibson shoot with very high ISO to be able to shoot in more natural light.
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post #178 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

If they just had used the same master as the broadcast version did, we would at least gotten acceptable quality.

Except instead of complaints of DNR and EE we'd be complaining of how soft and underwelming it is. It's also not EE free either.
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post #179 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I've been waiting for years. Can you guarantee me that in a few months we'll see a far better release? If you could, I'd hold out. But how many of these threads have seen a rerelease as a result? I can think of one, perhaps two titles that were rereleased in short order due to quality complaints. And no, I don't intend to pay $27. I'll be grabbing it for a few bucks less than that.

I don't mind people buying it, as this is what they are probably stuck with for the next 10 years, but $27 is just way too steep imo. I'll probably get it when it gets down to around $10 in the future, as I believe that is what it is worth (well probably more like $5 but that will never happen).
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post #180 of 2851 Old 08-24-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Except instead of complaints of DNR and EE we'd be complaining of how soft and underwelming it is. It's also not EE free either.

Some would always complain that the movie is soft. But the broadcast version looks like film, the BD does not.

A new master would certainly be welcomed. But I find no logical reason for not using the best available master.

It wouldnt cost more to encode master A then it is to encode Master B. Unless it has something to do with the seemless branching.
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