Gladiator Master Blu-ray Comparison and Review Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

Unless you flat out cannot rent Gladiator, why would you buy it before getting a look at it? If you like it, buy it and you may want to wait till it is cheaper besides.

Folks are saying people are going by screen caps and have not seen the film and now have made a determination. Well if you haven't seen it and folks who HAVE are reiterating PQ issues on the screen caps, why buy it ahead of viewing it??

On the plus side, one will get the extras and great AQ. But if one's main motivation is better PQ, well perhaps better than the SD DVD but not as good as it should be to begin with obviously!


Well personally I don't own it on DVD and I'm getting it rather cheap (not much more than 2 rentals). I could sell it and get most of my money back if I really didn't like it. I suspect it won't be available to rent locally (only by mail rental places) since most around here do not rent catalog Blu-rays.
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post #212 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Well personally I don't own it on DVD and I'm getting it rather cheap (not much more than 2 rentals). I could sell it and get most of my money back if I really didn't like it. I suspect it won't be available to rent locally (only by mail rental places) since most around here do not rent catalog Blu-rays.

Well I guess I forgot about who doesn't own it to begin with. But even still some of those folks may decide to rent it first if possible.
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post #213 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

That EE is about as bad as I've ever seen.

You must not have seen Gangs of New York or The 40YOV.

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post #214 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Well personally I don't own it on DVD and I'm getting it rather cheap (not much more than 2 rentals). I could sell it and get most of my money back if I really didn't like it. I suspect it won't be available to rent locally (only by mail rental places) since most around here do not rent catalog Blu-rays.

How are you getting it so cheap? At the price of "two rentals", I'll actually be interested in picking it up.
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post #215 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 11:23 AM
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How are you getting it so cheap? At the price of "two rentals", I'll actually be interested in picking it up.

Columbia House - around $14 Canadian.
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post #216 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 11:24 AM
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GANG of NY makes GLADIATOR look like BRAVEHEART. It's that bad.

Paramount refused to spend a dime on the TREK films, other than II, which needed a real life on film resoration to save the negative from ruin. TMP, III, IV and so on were from very very old masters and all were then baked over with filtering, noise reduction and EE, making them all inferior to the HD Broadcast versions!

So no surprise that a Paramount Sapphire release of a Dreamworks SKG production gets shafted. If the biggest franchise Paramount has received no respect, why would any other major film?

Amazing how in the UK, a small studio with limited pockets gave a lower budget film from 1985 called HIGHLANDER a superb transfer with not too much noise reduction (it's hit or miss from scene to scene, bust mostly awesome), yet one of the biggest R rated blockbusters of all time doesn't get the same respect. There is way way way more detail in HIGHLANDER than what can be seen on the GLADIATOR BD and HD broadcasts. Gladiator has just been DVNR'd too much.

Oh well. We just have to deal with it. No sense in crying about. Write some respectul letters in protect and enjoy Braveheart.

And buy HIGHLANDER!

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post #217 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Columbia House - around $14 Canadian.

Oh.

No Gladiator for me.
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post #218 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:00 PM
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This is BS!!!!

Look guys, if they were willing to change "The Fifth Element", a movie that wasnt even an Oscar contender or even fix POTC's framing issue.....THEY CAN FIX THIS!

We just need to complain immediately!

Somebody please setup a petition asap.
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post #219 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lavender View Post

Similarly, in the case of Gladiator, the problem is not the age of the transfer (Universal used some very old masters for HDDVD & Blu-ray and several of them looked wonderful (others did not)) the problem is that Gladiator was a transfer intended for the limitations of DVD (edge-enhancement, DNR, etc.)

I think this is spot on and is the cause of many of the EE and DNR issues we see with a number of transfers. I was complaining recently to a studio insider (that I trust) regarding some of Warner's transfers and he told me that according to the team that does the BD encoding work for Warner, the DNR/EE was introduced earlier in the production cycle or was already present in the master. This is not a problem with the format, or apparently, the folks doing the encoding. There are simply limits as to what they can do with what they are given. Braveheart and Gladiator is a perfect example of this.

Am I disappointed with Gladiator? Yes, I am. But the alternative is that the movie does not get released on Blu-Ray until it can be properly remastered and then we get people crying because there are not enough releases.

Catch-22 anyone? As for some comments in this thread with regards to studios intentionally adding DNR and EE to some of these titles to get you to double dip later on, sorry, but that is just ridiculous..
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post #220 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Am I disappointed with Gladiator? Yes, I am. But the alternative is that the movie does not get released on Blu-Ray until it can be properly remastered and then we get people crying because there are not enough releases.

They can release the same master they gave the TV stations. It looks far better than the doctored version released now.
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post #221 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I think this is spot on and is the cause of many of the EE and DNR issues we see with a number of transfers. I was complaining recently to a studio insider (that I trust) regarding some of Warner's transfers and he told me that according to the team that does the BD encoding work for Warner, the DNR/EE was introduced earlier in the production cycle or was already present in the master. This is not a problem with the format, or apparently, the folks doing the encoding. There are simply limits as to what they can do with what they are given. Braveheart and Gladiator is a perfect example of this.

Am I disappointed with Gladiator? Yes, I am. But the alternative is that the movie does not get released on Blu-Ray until it can be properly remastered and then we get people crying because there are not enough releases.

Catch-22 anyone? As for some comments in this thread with regards to studios intentionally adding DNR and EE to some of these titles to get you to double dip later on, sorry, but that is just ridiculous..

Well said.

It's disappointing that there appears to be problems again with another release but the vast majority of people will get this version and be happy. Maybe some day they'll remaster and do another release but until then i'll be watching the somewhat subpar release in my house since there is nothing better and I really like this movie.
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post #222 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

They can release the same master they gave the TV stations. It looks far better than the doctored version released now.

I have no idea. The TV station version does appear to be slightly better to me, but clearly this movie needs to be remastered.

I would like to see the DVD version against the BD version.
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post #223 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

This is BS!!!!

Look guys, if they were willing to change "The Fifth Element", a movie that wasnt even an Oscar contender or even fix POTC's framing issue.....THEY CAN FIX THIS!

We just need to complain immediately!

Somebody please setup a petition asap.

Here's a site to set up a petition. It's a free site too.

( the AVS censor words filter seems to not like the link ) Pet it iononline.com

You set it up and post a link and i'll gladly come to the site and put my name on it.
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post #224 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

This is BS!!!!

Look guys, if they were willing to change "The Fifth Element", a movie that wasnt even an Oscar contender or even fix POTC's framing issue.....THEY CAN FIX THIS!

We just need to complain immediately!

Somebody please setup a petition asap.


Big difference between discs with flaws and mistakes and one where the transfer is dated.

Just don't buy it. But no, many will complain (and even sign a petition), and then go out and buy it anyway. Given what I have seen I'll simply keep my DVD's of the TE and EE.
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post #225 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:25 PM
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Now I know it's a must buy...

All the experts here said it will look like s**t and cancelled their orders.
When I pop it in, I will have the lowest expectations... ever... and then I will be very pleased that it doesn't suck nearly as bad as the dvd "mush fest" I have now...

I never see it on cable so I don't have to worry about seeing it and getting the feeling it was better on tv than BD .

This worked for me with True Romance and TGTBTU, i figure it'll work here too.
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post #226 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:29 PM
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But no, many will complain (and even sign a petition), and then go out and buy it anyway. Given what I have seen I'll simply keep my DVD's of the TE and EE.

Exactly. I wonder what percentage of people who said they would never buy the ST movies or other much trashed releases actually held off from buying them?
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post #227 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fpconvert View Post

Now I know it's a must buy...

All the experts here said it will look like s**t and cancelled their orders.
When I pop it in, I will have the lowest expectations... ever... and then I will be very pleased that it doesn't suck nearly as bad as the dvd "mush fest" I have now...

I never see it on cable so I don't have to worry about seeing it and getting the feeling it was better on tv than BD .

This worked for me with True Romance and TGTBTU, i figure it'll work here too.

Yep that's an interesting way to look at it but I've experienced this as well.
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post #228 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

Exactly. I wonder what percentage of people who said they would never buy the ST movies or other much trashed releases actually held off from buying them?

I never bought them. I will buy Trek II sometime though and well i always said i wanted the directors cut of the original motion picture so was holding out for that. Still holding out for that and hoping it'll happen.

Now i have an Oppo for multiregion i can just rent and see what it's like and if it's a film i really like and the quality is good then i'll buy.
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post #229 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:36 PM
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I never bought them. I will buy Trek II sometime though and well i always said i wanted the directors cut of the original motion picture so was holding out for that. Still holding out for that and hoping it'll happen.

I'm sure there are some, like you, that did follow through but I bet a silent majority own a lot these - especially when they went on a sale.
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post #230 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:39 PM
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Here's a site to set up a petition. It's a free site too.

( the AVS censor words filter seems to not like the link ) Pet it iononline.com

You set it up and post a link and i'll gladly come to the site and put my name on it.

I'll start the petition tonight and link you guys in.

Oh, and no I will not be buying this. Fifth Element was a transfer flawed disc with lots of edge enhancement and DNR, they fixed it. They really can fix this if they wanted to and cared about their customers. Maybe they can recall this disc in time, who knows.
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post #231 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:43 PM
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Maybe they can recall this disc in time, who knows.

It's coming out in a week so I seriously doubt it.
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post #232 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:47 PM
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It's coming out in a week so I seriously doubt it.

Whats even more disturbing about all this is that this is their new Sapphire series line representing the BEST treatment of their Academy Award winning films! Its like Criterion for crying out loud. They could have just badged this thing as a regular bluray, but noooo its Sapphire. Now we have no choice but to cast flames at them.
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post #233 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

Whats even more disturbing about all this is that this is their new Sapphire series line representing the BEST treatment of their Academy Award winning films! Its like Criterion for crying out loud. They could have just badged this thing as a regular bluray, but noooo its Sapphire. Now we have no choice but to cast flames at them.

So all Sapphire series films deserve a new transfer - i'd agree with that.

I doubt a petition is going to do much but we are in the free parts of the world so you're welcome to it.
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post #234 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

Whats even more disturbing about all this is that this is their new Sapphire series line representing the BEST treatment of their Academy Award winning films! Its like Criterion for crying out loud. They could have just badged this thing as a regular bluray, but noooo its Sapphire. Now we have no choice but to cast flames at them.

You can cast the flames at them but it's for certain that some of those flames will be missing.

Look forward to signing your petition.

For me apathy will get you nowhere but positive action can sometimes get results and is never a bad thing.
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post #235 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:57 PM
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So all Sapphire series films deserve a new transfer - i'd agree with that.

I doubt a petition is going to do much but we are in the free parts of the world so you're welcome to it.

Oh you mark my words here and now, THIS WILL BE FIXED. Maybe not by petition but by constant calls and emails this WILL BE FIXED.
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post #236 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 12:58 PM
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Posted by ack_bk: This is not a problem with the format, or apparently, the folks doing the encoding. There are simply limits as to what they can do with what they are given. Braveheart and Gladiator is a perfect example of this.

So it would appear that we are in a period like the early DVD years, when many DVD titles were merely ported over from laserdisc masters such as the original Kubrick Collection boxed set.

I guess the rule of thumb should be that if a catalog title is coming to Blu, and has not been remastered already for DVD (e.g. Braveheart) or has not been announced as undergoing a remaster or restoration (e.g. The Robe), then we can probably expect a recycled DVD master.

I guess I can understand the bottom-line approach, but I cannot see giving such a half-arsed release the "Sapphire" treatment. Maybe this should have been part of the "Diamelle Collection".
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post #237 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 01:07 PM
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So it would appear that we are in a period like the early DVD years, when many DVD titles were merely ported over from laserdisc masters such as the original Kubrick Collection boxed set.

I would say it is similar, only with HD resolution and larger screens than ever before, even more visible...

Quote:


I guess the rule of thumb should be that if a catalog title is coming to Blu, and has not been remastered already for DVD (e.g. Braveheart) or has not been announced as undergoing a remaster or restoration (e.g. The Robe), then we can probably expect a recycled DVD master.

Most likely this is true (except I think you meant to say "Gladiator" vs "Braveheart"). But I think a movie can still look good on Blu-Ray even if it is a recycled master. It just depends on the shape of the master and whether or not the studio had already applied DNR/EE, to the older master. Apparently Warner used to do this quite a bit. It looks like Paramount did as well.

Quote:


I guess I can understand the bottom-line approach, but I cannot see giving such a half-arsed release the "Sapphire" treatment. Maybe this should have been part of the "Diamelle Collection".

You know, I did not even think of that angle until it was mentioned a few posts above. Indeed, the word "Sapphire" appears to be nothing more than a marketing gimmick to ask for more money. At the least, "Sapphire" edition movies should have a higher level of quality for PQ/AQ. "Gladiator" should not be allowed to pass the muster as a "Sapphire" release, while it appears that "Braveheart" should.

No way am I paying more than $12 for "Gladiator" and I will most certainly rent it first to determine if it is even worth the $12.

But I am a big fan of this movie, and would love to have it in my collection, especially since I no longer own the DVD version.
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post #238 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 01:14 PM
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At least the Star Trek films could be had cheap and one of them was in top quality. Here, they're charging a premium for a sub-par presentation. I was looking forward to this, especially since my DVD was taken by a sticky-fingered ex. Resisted replacing it on DVD because I knew it would come to Blu. Guess I'll wait a few more years.

Now I'm upset I didn't watch the HD DVR presentation. I saw it wasn't 2.35:1 and figured it was cropped, but looks like it was just a different framing from the super 35, so wouldn't have been so bad. If only studios would learn super 35 film should look gritty not waxy.

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post #239 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 01:16 PM
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Oh you mark my words here and now, THIS WILL BE FIXED. Maybe not by petition but by constant calls and emails this WILL BE FIXED.

Marked.

People seem to forget that the average BD buyer is not as anal as many here. It's also not like they kept this one extra free and will double dip. Short of a actual defect, those are the discs your likely going to have to live with until a new format comes along.
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post #240 of 2846 Old 08-24-2009, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 18 Brumaire View Post

I guess the rule of thumb should be that if a catalog title is coming to Blu, and has not been remastered already for DVD (e.g. Braveheart) or has not been announced as undergoing a remaster or restoration (e.g. The Robe), then we can probably expect a recycled DVD master.

This is usually the case but there are occasional surprises like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. There was no special re-release in sight for any other format but the BD got a brand new transfer.
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