The Terminator (1984) - 4 DVDs vs Blu-ray comparison PIX - AVS Forum
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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An old release but it must be done.

The Image Entertainment DVD was released in 1997. Judging from artifacts on lettering and the fact that it opens with the Hemdale Home Video logo, I'm guessing it uses the laserdisc master. It's non-anamorphic so I cropped 60 pixels each from the top and bottom to make comparison easier.

MGM made a new film-to-video transfer for their 2001 Special Edition DVD. The European disc features some different color timings than the US disc, and the opening scenes are from a different transfer without the burnt-in texts. (They're player-generated in order to accommodate the different language options.)

Later, Europe got an "Ultimate Edition" DVD based on the same European SE master but with the burnt-in opening restored using the other transfer. Unfortunately this release also added automatic dirt/scratch removal, with associated artifacts throughout.

The Blu-ray uses the exact same master as the US Special Edition DVD released in 2001, just without the vertical stretch and SD downscale.

Now for my major complaint: every single one of these releases uses temporal DNR, in varying degrees. This is tough to demonstrate with screencaps but I did find one part of the movie that displays it in a way that's obvious with stills.

If you want your experience ruined as much as mine, see image set #3 below. The "white" sky background seems to play hell with the filters used. Look at the power lines and lamp post. The downward camera movement coupled with the temporal filter causes duplication of these objects! If you watch those parts of the scene during playback you can actually see them accordion out and then slowly fade away...

The strength of the filter used on the EU discs is considerably lower than that used on MGM's US discs. The strongest DNR is actually on the Image DVD, but it doesn't have the duplication issue to the same degree.

Summary rant over.

 

[EDIT 2012-11-03: Added shots of UK Blu-ray.]

..... Image DVD .......... vs MGM UE DVD (EU) vs MGM SE DVD (EU) vs MGM SE DVD (US) vs MGM Blu-ray (US) vs MGM Blu-ray (UK)
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's some comparisons of the effects of the DNR (and MPEG-2 compression) on the Blu-ray.

Since there's no DNR-free high definition version, I had to choose a DVD version to compare to. The strange compression of the European SE disc, with even I-frames containing smoothed-out blocks, rules that one out.

So I used I-frames from the European UE DVD, the one with scratch removal artifacts galore (try to ignore those). I cropped, scaled, and repositioned it to match the Blu-ray as best I could. Note that these are very much cherry-picked to show the best of the DVD and Blu-ray frames where detail loss is obvious.

DNR comparison mouseovers here
(same as the images below)

 

[EDIT 2012-11-03: Added UK Blu-ray shots.]

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Old 09-13-2009, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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And here's a more esoteric comparison. Temporal bleeding at a scene change. It's basically imperceptible on the European DVDs. On the US discs you can see how the outlines of the pictures, bookshelf, and door bleed into neighboring frames then fade away.

MGM UE DVD (EU)


MGM SE DVD (EU)


MGM SE DVD (US)


Blu-ray
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Bear with me if you think I've gone overboard on this one.

Opening these in Firefox 3.5 and using your mouse wheel to scroll through them works well.

Arnold's hair leaving duplicate trails behind...

Blu-ray
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:32 AM
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Not to mention the problem with the audio. The original mono sound mix is not included on the Blu-ray. Instead replaced with a gimmicky surround remix with completely different sound effects at parts.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:42 AM
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Really appreciate your enthusiasm msgohan. If the Studios take a dose of this enthusiasm I am sure we won't be ranting. Are we are asking too much out of these Studios ? I don't think so, at least, for deserving titles like Terminator.

Blu-ray : 340
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Old 09-13-2009, 04:57 PM
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Makes me glad I haven't "upgraded" on this title yet. Hardly any benefit can be appreciated. This one needs a remaster.

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Old 09-13-2009, 05:09 PM
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Van Ling mentioned a remaster is coming at some point.

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Old 09-13-2009, 07:21 PM
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That sound remix is ridiculous. The Blu-Ray not having it means I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until that problem is solved.

By the way, in looking at those screen caps this has to be a case of the BD showing so little improvement because of excessive DNR that it isn't worth upgrading. The DVD was really quite good for its time and still holds up today. They went all out to make sure the video was top notch.

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Old 09-13-2009, 07:41 PM
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I've heard of this remaster as well, and although it's not quite anywhere near coming out anytime too soon, the difference between the DVD and Blu-ray really look to be negligible. I'll keep what I've got for now.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:21 PM
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Does the 2001 US MGM SE DVD have the original mono track?

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Old 09-13-2009, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Both US DVDs feature the original mono, as a 192kbps DD2.0 track.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:24 PM
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Nice. I think I'm going to pick up the DVD. LOL.

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Old 09-14-2009, 05:07 AM
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So the BD looks like a HDNet broadcast.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:10 AM
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The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

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Old 09-14-2009, 07:21 AM
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Well, if I had to choose for the image only I'd still be buying the blu-ray. However slight the upgrade, with the screenshots full size I do like the BD best of all. In fact with the low pricing at the moment for the BD I might buy it as a temporary add-on to my US SE dvd (what a dreadful stretch by the way).
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I want to break the kneecaps of all involved with that ridiculous sound remix.

I have not heard the remix, but I am curious as to what the offensive parts are. I know that they replaced the sound made by the gun when the T-800 confronts the first Sarah, but what else is problematic?

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Old 09-14-2009, 08:45 AM
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Everything. The entire soundtrack has been redone, replaced, reworked. Nothing sounds the same. In addition, numerous music pieces are actually missing because the composer redid the entire score on modern equipment, but forgot to do some of the music.

It's a disaster. The worst remix ever done in Hollywood because it just throws out the original with no respect for it whatsoever.

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Old 09-14-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

Hrmmm, think I'll try to find the laserdisc, too

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Old 09-14-2009, 01:13 PM
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I still have the Image DVD for the original non-split 1.0 track.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Everything. The entire soundtrack has been redone, replaced, reworked. Nothing sounds the same. In addition, numerous music pieces are actually missing because the composer redid the entire score on modern equipment, but forgot to do some of the music.

And who is that guy again? Nice job Brad... This is beyond me, I mean the guy scores Terminator, makes a new version, and forgets to do some of it?!?!?! He could be forgiven if it was for, I don't know, some random porn sapphire series update (I'd be curious to check EE and DNR on that!)! But... Terminator!!hmmm...
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The DVD's 192k bps track is shrill and empty, so even though it is there, it's a shell of what the PCM track on all the laserdiscs sounds like.

Basically, there has yet to be a release that satisfies me on DVD or Blu-Ray. Cameron needs to step in here and personally ensure this one gets a proper release.

PCM tracks from laserdiscs often sound better. I don't know why they don't use them more often on Blu-rays.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Hmmm, think I'll try to find the laserdisc, too

I ended up getting rid of the (2001) DVD and keeping the LD: at least I have the original mono soundtrack. The extras were nice (kept a copy of those), but this is one of those movies (like RoboCop) I still like to watch on LaserDisc.

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Old 09-14-2009, 02:51 PM
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This was one of the first bluray titles I bought at the heavily bungled launch of the format. I had the 2001 special edition at the time and in comparing the 2 the difference was negligeble and this actually was one of the better looking blurays at launch.
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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excellent job on all those comprehensively done comparisons of yours :P
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Old 09-14-2009, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post

I ended up getting rid of the (2001) DVD and keeping the LD: at least I have the original mono soundtrack. The extras were nice (kept a copy of those), but this is one of those movies (like RoboCop) I still like to watch on LaserDisc.

I have a laserdisc copy on the way now

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Old 09-15-2009, 11:12 AM
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Has anyone ripped the fabled PCM mono track?
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:21 PM
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dvd producer van ling is working on a new special edition bluray of terminator 1. it suppose to come out next year sometime. lowery is doing the remastering of the movie.. they have done other movies too. I have the bluray and I thought it was fine.

Jacob
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

dvd producer van ling is working on a new special edition bluray of terminator 1. it suppose to come out next year sometime. lowery is doing the remastering of the movie.. they have done other movies too. I have the bluray and I thought it was fine.

Jacob

Didnt they do T2 Skynet edition aswell?
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:30 PM
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Didnt they do T2 Skynet edition aswell?

Even if they did, I'm sure T1 will still look a LOT better than the previous release.
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