Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen DVD, BD & Walmart Big Screen (IMAX) Edition *PIX* - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 404 Old 10-21-2009, 11:34 PM
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Just my opinion but I gotta think that there is some kind of mass psychosis going on with this blu-ray. Just finished watching the IMAX version and it was truly amazing. Not one hint of anything wrong both PQ and AQ. I did notice that after watching for awhile and being bombarded with that audio track full of explosions etc., dialogue sounds a bit muffled or soft because my ears were RINGING! Watching on Panansonic TH-65PZ850U plasma and played on Oppo BDP-83 with analog outs into my Outlaw 950 pre/pro set to -07. Outlaw does bass management so my speakers were all set to large. Man, this has got to be one of, if not, the top of the line blu-ray that's ever been produced, as far as I'm concerned.

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post #182 of 404 Old 10-21-2009, 11:39 PM
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Oh, and by the way, the IMAX scenes made my eyeballs bleed they were so good.

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post #183 of 404 Old 10-21-2009, 11:55 PM
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I can confirm that the Walmart Disc sets the "Dialog" setting on my Yamaha RX-V663 to -4 when bitstreaming from my ASUS HDAV card in my computer.

I also have the regular version and it sets the "Dialog" setting on my Yamaha RX-V663 to 0 when bitstreaming from my ASUS HDAV card in my computer.

I turned the Wally disc up 4 Db and they both sound the same now. I really don't think this whole audio thing is anything to worry about. However, the few IMAX scenes in the Wally disc are unquestionably better than the regular disc.

I would venture to say that the difference between the IMAX and non IMAX blu-ray footage is as big a difference as a well mastered and properly upscaled DVD and a normal Blu-ray. The IMAX clips are that freaking good. Dark Knight had already proven that though.

Does anyone know all of the exact time codes for the IMAX scenes?
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post #184 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Update #2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

One very slight caveat: BDInfo only detects the DN value from the lossy DTS core. I'm not sure where in the extensions data to look for a separate DN value or if there is even a possibility of having two different values (i.e. one for lossy core and separate one for lossless extensions).

I scanned both discs again using a different tool the eac3to info:

IMAX Edition eac3to info:

Code:
M2TS, 1 video track, 4 audio tracks, 7 subtitle tracks, 2:30:25, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 20 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB)
4: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: AC3, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: Subtitle (PGS), English
8: Subtitle (PGS), French
9: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
10: Subtitle (PGS), Portuguese
11: Subtitle (PGS), English
12: Subtitle (PGS), French
13: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Removing DTS dialog normalization...
[a03] Creating file "C:\\1_3_audio.dtshd"...
Video track 2 contains 216382 frames.
eac3to processing took 34 minutes, 58 seconds.
Done.
Regular Edition eac3to info:

Code:
M2TS, 1 video track, 4 audio tracks, 7 subtitle tracks, 2:29:53, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 20 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz
   (core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
4: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
5: AC3, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 224kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: Subtitle (PGS), English
8: Subtitle (PGS), English
9: Subtitle (PGS), French
10: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
11: Subtitle (PGS), Portuguese
12: Subtitle (PGS), French
13: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
[a03] Extracting audio track number 3...
[a03] Creating file "C:\\1_3_audio.dtshd"...
Video track 2 contains 215617 frames.
eac3to processing took 34 minutes, 14 seconds.
Done.
Dialnorm at -4db applied for the IMAX edition.

DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB)


Lossy and lossless. Same results.


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post #185 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 05:24 AM
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So there we have it! Thanks Xylon!

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post #186 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

OK I just watched and rewatched and rewatched again and again the OPENING 2mins up to where the giant decipticon comes alive and produces some massive bass by pounding his fists into the ground.

...........

I didn't hear anything like that. Yet I can put other movies in and the sub sonic bass will shake everything.

Maybe I just need to really crank it up, but I've never needed to do that with the hundreds of other HD titles I have to hear and feel the deep bass.

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post #187 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I didn't hear anything like that. Yet I can put other movies in and the sub sonic bass will shake everything.

Maybe I just need to really crank it up, but I've never needed to do that with the hundreds of other HD titles I have to hear and feel the deep bass.

Your hundreds of other HD titles also probably don't have -4dB on the dial.


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post #188 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Update #2

I scanned both discs again using a different tool the eac3to info:

IMAX Edition eac3to info:


Dialnorm at -4db applied for the IMAX edition.

DTS Master Audio, English, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -4dB)


Lossy and lossless. Same results.

So this means it is a non issue right? Just turn the IMAX version up 4 DB and you will hear the same thing?
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post #189 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

Your hundreds of other HD titles also probably don't have -4dB on the dial.

That's correct.
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post #190 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 07:21 AM
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Xylon, you're the man! Wally, here I come!
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post #191 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I didn't hear anything like that. Yet I can put other movies in and the sub sonic bass will shake everything.

Maybe I just need to really crank it up, but I've never needed to do that with the hundreds of other HD titles I have to hear and feel the deep bass.

If you don't mind me asking, what does your system consist of? Have you calibrated the levels by an SPL or by ear, so to speak? Perhaps we can help you out
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post #192 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I didn't hear anything like that. Yet I can put other movies in and the sub sonic bass will shake everything.

Maybe I just need to really crank it up, but I've never needed to do that with the hundreds of other HD titles I have to hear and feel the deep bass.

I've found that if I use the same levels I would use for the dialnormed TrueHD tracks on Iron Man and TF1 it sounds fine. Give that a try.

You shouldn't have to crank it too much.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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post #193 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 07:47 AM
 
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Quote:


So this means it is a non issue right? Just turn the IMAX version up 4 DB and you will hear the same thing?

In relative terms, as far as overall volume level, yes, there is simply a 4 dB difference between the two versions.

What is not known for certain is if both versions use the same soundtrack mix. Obviously the IMAX version was a different mix for theatrical release, but we don't know for certain how the two Blu-ray versions were mastered.
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post #194 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

In relative terms, as far as overall volume level, yes, there is simply a 4 dB difference between the two versions.

What is not known for certain is if both versions use the same soundtrack mix. Obviously the IMAX version was a different mix for theatrical release, but we don't know for certain how the two Blu-ray versions were mastered.

Yup, I read in another thread that Filmmixer was saying that the IMAX mix has the LFE in the mains as IMAX theatres don't use subs. So in your home theatre setup, you'd need to make sure you have your crossover setup properly to have the bass redirected from the mains to your sub.

So it could be a combination of a different mix and dialnorm being used.
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post #195 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Kn0w View Post

Yup, I read in another thread that Filmmixer was saying that the IMAX mix has the LFE in the mains as IMAX theatres don't use subs. So in your home theatre setup, you'd need to make sure you have your crossover setup properly to have the bass redirected from the mains to your sub.

So it could be a combination of a different mix and dialnorm being used.

FilmMixer has not yet verified that Paramount left the LFE in the mains for this home video release. He's trying to get clarification on what was done from a contact he has.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #196 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 09:30 AM
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With all your other speakers set to "large" (to prevent redirected bass), disconnect every speaker except the subwoofer and see if it plays any signal.

Personally, I believe that it's 4 dB lower, but probably the same mix as the other version.

I have the IMAX version and don't think it lacks for bass or "oomph". Can't make a comparison, though, since I don't have the standard version.

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post #197 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

The Walmart Big Screen Edition with the IMAX scenes is a whooping 71 seconds longer.

IMAX Edition eac3to info:
M2TS, 1 video track, 4 audio tracks, 7 subtitle tracks, 2:30:25, 24p /1.001

Regular Edition eac3to info:
M2TS, 1 video track, 4 audio tracks, 7 subtitle tracks, 2:29:53, 24p /1.001

Now I'm no mathematician....but when I subtract 2:29:53 from 2:30:25, I only end up with 32 seconds longer of running time....

So either I need to repeat grade school, or people need to show me where there is an additional 71 seconds in the Big Screen edition....
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post #198 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker412 View Post

The IMAX is def a tad brighter. Compare the two pics of Optimus covered in dirt, specifically his right shoulder. It's brighter on the IMAX version.

I felt that the non-IMAX scenes were too dark, as if the black levels were crushed. That said, in this shot the IMAX version is clearly crushed too dark.


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for my home theater setup
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post #199 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

Your hundreds of other HD titles also probably don't have -4dB on the dial.

The -4dB difference isn't my problem. I turned the volume up much higher than that to compensate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

I've found that if I use the same levels I would use for the dialnormed TrueHD tracks on Iron Man and TF1 it sounds fine. Give that a try.

You shouldn't have to crank it too much.


I don't have a problem with Ironman. I get deep heavy bass from that title. The same with TF1

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul nyc View Post

If you don't mind me asking, what does your system consist of? Have you calibrated the levels by an SPL or by ear, so to speak? Perhaps we can help you out

I'm using a Denon 3808 with an SVS MTS-01 seven speaker setup(with the FL/FR towers) and an SVS 2039PC+ sub.

I used the Audessey Setup in the Denon receiver. Other titles sound fine, but TF2 just doesn't sound right. It's doesn't have the "oomph" it should, like other titles have in my setup.

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post #200 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Kn0w View Post

Yup, I read in another thread that Filmmixer was saying that the IMAX mix has the LFE in the mains as IMAX theatres don't use subs. .

He is wrong.

I tested this.

The LFE is seperate from the mains. There is INDEED an LFE track on the IMAX version in addition to the main channel bass.

The mains will simply send EXTRA bass on top of the LFE if your speakers are set to small.

Otherwise if your speakers are set to large they will handle the bass and only the LFE will come out of your sub.

I had to put that to rest!


ps...the IMAX edition extra 60 seconds it not what gets us ....it is the amazing picture that it gives us during those scenes.

The forest fight and Devestator are seriously stunning when blown up to full screen!

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post #201 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

The -4dB difference isn't my problem. I turned the volume up much higher than that to compensate.




I don't have a problem with Ironman. I get deep heavy bass from that title. The same with TF1



I'm using a Denon 3808 with an SVS MTS-01 seven speaker setup(with the FL/FR towers) and an SVS 2039PC+ sub. Also, what is your crossover set on the main left/rights? Speaker set to Large? Small?

I used the Audessey Setup in the Denon receiver. Other titles sound fine, but TF2 just doesn't sound right. It's doesn't have the "oomph" it should, like other titles have in my setup.


Nice setup. Really odd on the lack of "oomph". You should netflix the regular blu and do an A/B
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post #202 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

The -4dB difference isn't my problem. I turned the volume up much higher than that to compensate.




I don't have a problem with Ironman. I get deep heavy bass from that title. The same with TF1



I'm using a Denon 3808 with an SVS MTS-01 seven speaker setup(with the FL/FR towers) and an SVS 2039PC+ sub.

I used the Audessey Setup in the Denon receiver. Other titles sound fine, but TF2 just doesn't sound right. It's doesn't have the "oomph" it should, like other titles have in my setup.

Are you comparing to regualr version of ROTF or just other movies. If you just compare to other movies, I'd agree with you. The sound effects are not top tier IMO.

But if you compare to regular version of ROTF, this is where everyone wants to know, I have to disagree with you.

Not try speaking for everyone here, but I suspect most try to determine whether to buy the IMAX version(for superior IMAX video) of regular version (if IMAX audio is subpar). So, it is important to compare two versions side by side to see if there indeed problem with IMAX version other than volume level.

Whether the movie's own sound track lacks "oomph" or not is up to debate but I suspect most don't really care that much at this time.
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post #203 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

He is wrong.

I tested this.

The LFE is seperate from the mains. There is INDEED an LFE track on the IMAX version in addition to the main channel bass.

The mains will simply send EXTRA bass on top of the LFE if your speakers are set to small.

Otherwise if your speakers are set to large they will handle the bass and only the LFE will come out of your sub.

I had to put that to rest!


Awesome! Thanks for confirming that with us.
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post #204 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

He is wrong.

I tested this.

The LFE is seperate from the mains. There is INDEED an LFE track on the IMAX version in addition to the main channel bass.

The mains will simply send EXTRA bass on top of the LFE if your speakers are set to small.

Otherwise if your speakers are set to large they will handle the bass and only the LFE will come out of your sub.

I had to put that to rest!


ps...the IMAX edition extra 60 seconds it not what gets us ....it is the amazing picture that it gives us during those scenes.

The forest fight and Devestator are seriously stunning when blown up to full screen!

Just to be clear, the post to which you are responding mis-quoted FilmMixer. As indicated above FilmMixer did not say there is no LFE track on the WalMart version. He said that IMAX (in the theater, like) doesn't have a .1 track, and he did not know whether there was one on the IMAX Blu-ray version of thie movie or not. He specifically suggested the test of setting all your speakers to large to see if there's still content in the sub as a way to check. Doesn't sound like womething you would say if you thought there was none . . .
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post #205 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:49 AM
 
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I haven't read all pages here yet, so sorry if this has already been discussed. Has anyone noticed that while some of the differences between the IMAX scenes and standard disc are just simple vertical shifts, the pyramid scene is actually geometrically distorted on the standard disc?

It looks as if they couldn't frame the height properly even after shifting it, so they shrunk it down a little bit vertically. I wonder if other scenes were done this way?
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post #206 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:52 AM
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A quick question, I picked up the Walmart big screen edition and checked out some of the beginning. I havn't seen any Imax scenes yet...How often do they open up to the Imax scenes, should I have seen any of them within the first 20 minutes of the film?
Thanks,
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post #207 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickPas View Post

A quick question, I picked up the Walmart big screen edition and checked out some of the beginning. I havn't seen any Imax scenes yet...How often do they open up to the Imax scenes, should I have seen any of them within the first 20 minutes of the film?
Thanks,
Rick

I believe it's about 50 min into the film
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post #208 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Just to be clear, the post to which you are responding mis-quoted FilmMixer. As indicated above FilmMixer did not say there is no LFE track on the WalMart version. He said that IMAX (in the theater, like) doesn't have a .1 track, and he did not know whether there was one on the IMAX Blu-ray version of thie movie or not. He specifically suggested the test of setting all your speakers to large to see if there's still content in the sub as a way to check. Doesn't sound like womething you would say if you thought there was none . . .



I just was trying to put an end to that speculation.

There is indeed an LFE track on the Walmart/IMAX version.

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post #209 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RickPas View Post

A quick question, I picked up the Walmart big screen edition and checked out some of the beginning. I havn't seen any Imax scenes yet...How often do they open up to the Imax scenes, should I have seen any of them within the first 20 minutes of the film?
Thanks,
Rick

it's only the forest fight (almost 1 hour into the movie) and at the end.
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post #210 of 404 Old 10-22-2009, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

I just was trying to put an end to that speculation.

There is indeed an LFE track on the Walmart/IMAX version.

Yep. I was happy to see your posts on that point starting yesterday. Thanks for taking one for the team.
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