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post #271 of 3096 Old 11-21-2009, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post

I don't get this theory? I always adjust my volume until it sounds "right to me". That is usually, as loud as it can be before it gets uncomfortable to listen to. Are you saying that people have an arbitrary volume level on their receiver that they just listen to every movie at?


If you are going to make critical judgements about how one track compare to another, then yes, you should figure out what the reference level is for your receiver, and each track should play at that level (or adjusted for dialog norm) if you want to hear it as we intended.

It is also the only way to make an educated opinion on how one track relates to another... if you are always changing your reference point, how can you expect to have a "reference point" for "REFERENCE TIER"?

Also, the loudness curve of human hearing changes along with SPL, so if you raise, or lower, a track from reference, you are going to change both the frequency response and subjective dynamic range of a track.
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post #272 of 3096 Old 11-21-2009, 09:43 PM
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STAR TREK: REFERENCE

Add me to the list too.

I loved the sound of this in the digital theaters, knew it would make for a great BD. There is some cleanly articulated low bass in this mix, however there is lots of inner detail going on within the film along with ambience. Dialog was spot on and loud special effects didn't mask what else that was going on during the film.
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post #273 of 3096 Old 11-21-2009, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

If you are going to make critical judgements about how one track compare to another, then yes, you should figure out what the reference level is for your receiver, and each track should play at that level (or adjusted for dialog norm) if you want to hear it as we intended.

It is also the only way to make an educated opinion on how one track relates to another... if you are always changing your reference point, how can you expect to have a "reference point" for "REFERENCE TIER"?

Also, the loudness curve of human hearing changes along with SPL, so if you raise, or lower, a track from reference, you are going to change both the frequency response and subjective dynamic range of a track.

I see. I usually listen to every track at the same level, give or take a few decibels. There are a few tracks where I've had to adjust the volume significantly. How do you find out the reference level of your receiver? I'm currently using a Yamaha RV-565. Also, wouldn't the reference level sound louder/softer depending on how large your room is?

Thanks Film Mixer.
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post #274 of 3096 Old 11-21-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post

I see. I usually listen to every track at the same level, give or take a few decibels. There are a few tracks where I've had to adjust the volume significantly. How do you find out the reference level of your receiver? I'm currently using a Yamaha RV-565. Also, wouldn't the reference level sound louder/softer depending on how large your room is?

Thanks Film Mixer.

An SPL meter is the only accurate way I know of.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #275 of 3096 Old 11-21-2009, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

An SPL meter is the only accurate way I know of.

A meter will not do you any good without the appropriate test tones.

Some receivers/processors have this built in, but it is better to use a test disc through the Blu-ray player.
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post #276 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 12:50 AM
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Star Trek (TrueHD) - Reference

Ditto
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post #277 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Children of Men - Tier 0

Talk about 360 degree sound field and immersion this one delivers. Past 1 hr 16 mins this is hands down one of the best sound mix and design in terms of dynamic range, directionality, balanced LFE and surrounds. Explosions and gunshots rips through all directions virtually putting the viewer in the midst of the battlefield. The dialogue driven portions reproduces all sound elements keeping all speakers active throughout. This is a well engineered mix for a dialogue driven movie.

Totally agree. This movie has some of the best ambient sounds I've ever heard, in terms of putting the listener right in the scene. I heard sounds coming from outside of my two main speakers, which is rare. LFE was spot on during explosions and not overdone. Dialog was great.

By comparison, "The Bourne Ultimatum" sounds artificial and overly done. This track is very natural and moving.

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Originally Posted by davcole View Post

That's exactly my thoughts on this mix. I felt it was a stellar mix, I was puzzled when I read comments from reviewers stating the mix was slightly underwhelming. I personally think it's cause we are so used to unrealistic sounding bombast, we start to think it underwhelming. What I heard was a near reference track with legit sound effects and even moreso an involving surround mix.

Ditto.
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post #278 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 09:31 AM
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Memoirs of A Geisha - LPCM 48Khz/16-bit - Tier 0

This is an excellent mix for a dialogue driven movie. LFE and Surrounds are well balanced as they are smooth and constantly active. Dialogue reproduction is spot on. The excellent score by John Williams is reproduced impeccably setting a wide stage not only for atmosphere sake but also to offer a sonic and immersive experience. You can clearly hear discrete sounds emanating from all directions especially when the characters wander around the busy streets.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #279 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 11:01 AM
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Leon: The Professional (DTS-MA, 24/96) - Tier 2
This is a largely dialog driven film, atmospherics are OK. Dialog was always clear except for maybe one or two lines, surrounds were ok and imaging was ok. Nothing really impressive here. The guns don't sound super forceful, but at the same time they don't sound as authentic as something in a Michael Mann movie. I think it's probably from whatever recordings were used. The score sounded fantastic and rich, it has a few low pulses in there(about the only place you'll find deep-ish LFE, its enough to shake stuff though.
96khz? Yup.

Star Trek (TrueHD) - Tier Reference
Wow, as good as it was in theaters, it of course sounded better at home. The pulses during warp probably shifted the house a few millimeters to the left.
Perfection. But not enough to be the King of all audio tracks.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #280 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 06:05 PM
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The Taking of Pelham 123 (DTS-MA 5.1) - Tier 1

Dialogue driven with surround use for action and ambience, some directionality. Dialogue is clear throughout. LFE is good when called for.

Leon The Professional (DTS-MA 5.1) - Tier 2

Dialogue is clear. Surrounds were not used often enough for my taste even during action. LFE was ok but I would have liked more in the gunshots and explosions.
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post #281 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 08:43 PM
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Star Trek (Dolby THD) Reference

I wonder what this volume is too low talk is about. This track is right on the mark with other tracks as far as where my MV resides during listening. I'm guessing the issue is with with those who doing in player decoding and sending LPCM or analog via MCH out.

Anyway finally a real reference track I can agree with. Top notch all the way. Dynamics are off the chart here and large compliment goes to the music score here as well. The mix is aggressive but remained balanced throughout, never once I was distracted by the surrounds, or try to hear what the actors have said. Awesome bass as well, weapons sound much different from previous Star Trek films and it's a good thing. This is by far the best soundtrack of this year so far. Well done!

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post #282 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 09:08 PM
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State of Play (DTS HD MA) Tier 1

Nicely done for a dialog driven political drama. Surrounds were active with lots of ambience when needed, some scenes had directional ones as well. Bass was plenty and appropriate when it was called for, and dialog remained clear and natural. Music was forgettable, but mixed well. Dynamics were better then average.


The Pink Panther 2( DTS HD MA) Tier 2

This is an average track nothing stands out but nothing is wrong technically speaking.
Dialog is clear, music is nicely balanced and it was a pleasure to hear the title track again but in a lossless format. Dynamics were gutted pretty much and not much bass one can speak of.


Marley and Me (DTS HD MA) Tier 2

Much like PP above nothing stands out here nor much to complain here. The mix supports the film just fine, but nothing to write home about. Cute movie though.

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post #283 of 3096 Old 11-22-2009, 10:22 PM
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The Negotiator (TrueHD) - Tier 1

Dialogue is clear throughout. Surrounds are used throughout for ambience and action with some directionality. A few discrete sounds. There is one in particular that stands out to me, when Samuel L. Jackson fires a bullet in the air you can hear the reverberation of the bullet for quite a while. LFE at times was good, when grenades were going off. LFE at other times could have been better. The music and sound at times added to the suspense of the moment. For me a very pleasing mix.
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post #284 of 3096 Old 11-23-2009, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Star Trek (Dolby THD) Reference

I wonder what this volume is too low talk is about. This track is right on the mark with other tracks as far as where my MV resides during listening. I'm guessing the issue is with with those who doing in player decoding and sending LPCM or analog via MCH out.

You could be right. When I first posted about the volume being low, I was sending a PCM signal from the PS3. That same night I ran out and got another Bluray player, and once I sent the signal via bitstream, I posted that the volume problem wasn't nearly as pronounced as I'd posted about earlier. I still have to set it about 3 db's higher then most other movies, though. Then again, a 3 db difference could come down to varying characteristics in home theater setups too, I suppose.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #285 of 3096 Old 11-23-2009, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

You could be right. When I first posted about the volume being low, I was sending a PCM signal from the PS3. That same night I ran out and got another Bluray player, and once I sent the signal via bitstream, I posted that the volume problem wasn't nearly as pronounced as I'd posted about earlier. I still have to set it about 3 db's higher then most other movies, though. Then again, a 3 db difference could come down to varying characteristics in home theater setups too, I suppose.


I watched it at +1 which is only 1-2db higher than most TrueHD tracks for me and that was plenty loud.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #286 of 3096 Old 11-24-2009, 12:32 PM
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Contact (TrueHD 5.1) Tier 1

Watched this one right before my sub blew and now it's off for repair. So this will be the last addition I make to this thread until I get my Ultra back.
Anyway, Tier 1/Tier 2 material. Surrounds get quiet during dialogue heavy scenes, which there are many of. The reason I selected tier 1 is because the transport scene where Jodie Foster's character Dr. Arroway enters the transport pod is demo material. The soundfield created by the rotating beams is unreal. The house was shaking and surrounds and fronts created a virtual enclosure around the viewer. I really felt like I was the one walking across that scaffold. Zemeckis' camera work using Dr. Arroway's POV added to this effect. Hard to put into words although some of you can, I know. Great 5 minute scene there. This demo scene along with clear dialogue and adequate multi-channel use results in a really nice track.
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post #287 of 3096 Old 11-24-2009, 02:32 PM
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Children of Men(DTS-MA) - Tier Reference
I'm not going to repeat what others have said about the audio, it's excellent. But I want to make a case for it being added to the Reference tier. In terms of realism and immersion this track stands above the rest, I don't think there's a single film that has used sound so effectively to create a living breathing world.

If Michael Mann ever made a science fiction film(do it) it would sound like Children of Men.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #288 of 3096 Old 11-24-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

Children of Men(DTS-MA) - Tier Reference
I'm not going to repeat what others have said about the audio, it's excellent. But I want to make a case for it being added to the Reference tier. In terms of realism and immersion this track stands above the rest, I don't think there's a single film that has used sound so effectively to create a living breathing world.

If Michael Mann ever made a science fiction film(do it) it would sound like Children of Men.

I recently picked this one up and I need to unwrap it and take it for a spin. I owned the HD DVD of it which had a DD+ track and I remember loving it. I think I might agree with you after listening to the MA blu-ray track.
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post #289 of 3096 Old 11-25-2009, 02:04 AM
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Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (DTSHD-MA) - Reference

I have better clarify my opinion.

First of all, I have a new Emotiva XPA-5 amp and this is the first movie I've watched with it. My 'reference' vote could be because this amp was superb or it could be because the actual sound track was at reference levels and this amp just showed it of more.

Anyway, I loved the use of surrounds in this movie and my only complaint would be occaisional hard to hear vocals.
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post #290 of 3096 Old 11-25-2009, 05:18 AM
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Heat (Dolby THD) Tier 1


While it's a step up from the DVD's lossy DD, the sound effects/follies sounded dated and sometimes were mixed that it was distracting. The bad sibilance on the scene with Vincent and Justine remained, where Hanna explained why he doesn't talk about his work at home. There is a constant background hiss as well, on the same scene, interestingly this is one of the few scenes that there is no music score underneath.
The score is one of the best thing here BTW and I'm sure it needs no introduction. It was mixed a little lean IMO, but still it was powerful enough to give each scene a good emotional support. Frankly I was never the biggest fan of the bank shootout scene as far as audio demos go. It's not much to it really and gets fatiguing fast. I always liked the airport runway scene much better, and it comes across here with shining details. This scene has probably the only time the LFE gets some work out. All in all this is a worthwhile addition to your library even if you owned the SE DVD, but won't set things on fire.

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post #291 of 3096 Old 11-25-2009, 05:36 PM
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Return to Forever:Returns (DTS HD MA) Reference (concerts)

I think there has only been one vote for the "Return to Forever Returns" BD. I don't know what that vote was, but for a concert blu-ray this disk is reference for me. I viewed it last night, and the DTS HD MA track sound was simply AMAZING!

You really have to be into this kind of Jazz/Fusion to like this music title, but these musicians are nothing but top notch and have been around for a long long time. The instruments are crystal clear, and the bass extension for some of them is tremendous. I have seen alot of concert blu-ray's, but this one is at the top of my list for SQ.

Go Phillies! Go Eagles! Go Sixers! Go Flyers!
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post #292 of 3096 Old 11-26-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post

I see. I usually listen to every track at the same level, give or take a few decibels. There are a few tracks where I've had to adjust the volume significantly. How do you find out the reference level of your receiver? I'm currently using a Yamaha RV-565. Also, wouldn't the reference level sound louder/softer depending on how large your room is?

Thanks Film Mixer.

The "reference level" of any receiver is "0" (for Denons it's "00"). I've never taken my past (Denon) or current (Pioneer Elite SC07) to the Reference level. Like to have some hearing left after watching each BD. I usually have my receiver at -15 for TrueHD BD movies and -17 for DTS HD MA.

Odd time I might dial it down even lower (e.g. The Incredible Hulk down to -20 or -22).

Does any one actually use "reference level"??

Just watched Bourne Ultimatum. I agree with it's ranking as a "reference" BD. Sound quality was amazing. "Real" (e.g. gun shots, cars crashing...etc.). Clean. Nice soundtrack always keeping you on the edge of your seat. Wonder if the other two are as good. I bought the trilogy box set.

Still have yet to watch Spiderman 3 or Baraka (well watched part of Baraka).

Are there any "must own" BD's coming out this year?
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post #293 of 3096 Old 11-26-2009, 05:26 PM
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Heat (TrueHD) - Tier 1

Dialogue is clear. I listened at the same sound level for most movies without any problem. Sound is primarily directed from the fronts. Occasional directionality between right and left front. Surrounds used primarily for music. There is sporadic use of surrounds for ambience and action but they really aren't prominent except in the bank shoot-out, the airport sequences and 2 helicopter scenes. LFE was sorely lacking throughout and for me was the most disappointing. The only significant LFE was in the 2 helicopter scenes, 2 bulletshots where Pacino's character is busting through a door after the bank shoot-out, when De Niro's character goes to take care of the snitch prior to the airport scenes, and the airplane sounds at the end. Even in those moments LFE wasn't great, although was best in the airplane sounds. The overall sound quality wasn't full and immersive, but then again it was made in 1995. Considering The Negotiator is 3 years newer, it had much better sound quality and was more pleasing overall. Heat still is a good movie and a good one to own for its content.
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post #294 of 3096 Old 11-26-2009, 09:05 PM
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Fight Club (DTS-MA 5.1) - Reference

I usually listen to most movies at -9dB, but had to turn this one down to -12dB. Dialogue is clear throughout. Sound is clear and crisp. Surround use throughout that will put you in the middle of the action. Lots of discrete sounds. LFE use is impressive, at times vibrating the couch impressive. Some memorable audio scenes including one on an airplane that will equal the scene from Knowing.
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post #295 of 3096 Old 11-26-2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

Children of Men(DTS-MA) - Tier Reference
I'm not going to repeat what others have said about the audio, it's excellent. But I want to make a case for it being added to the Reference tier. In terms of realism and immersion this track stands above the rest, I don't think there's a single film that has used sound so effectively to create a living breathing world.

If Michael Mann ever made a science fiction film(do it) it would sound like Children of Men.

I agree, it's a magnificent, realistic-sounding track!
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post #296 of 3096 Old 11-26-2009, 11:35 PM
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Harry Potter: The Half Blood Prince (Dolby TrueHD) - Reference

The Harry Potter mixes seem to get progressively better every movie, and this is no exception. This is another very aggressive mix, with strong LFE presence and very active surrounds. An early scene where Dumbledore performs a room restoration shows off just how meticulous and detailed the 360 soundfield is. The application of LFE is flawless, adding appropriate depth and never overpowering the rest of the spectrum. Is it just me, or are we getting a lot of fantastic audio mixes lately? Hopefully the bar has been permanently raised.
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post #297 of 3096 Old 11-27-2009, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post

Harry Potter: The Half Blood Prince (Dolby TrueHD) - Reference

The Harry Potter mixes seem to get progressively better every movie, and this is no exception. This is another very aggressive mix, with strong LFE presence and very active surrounds. An early scene where Dumbledore performs a room restoration shows off just how meticulous and detailed the 360 soundfield is. The application of LFE is flawless, adding appropriate depth and never overpowering the rest of the spectrum. Is it just me, or are we getting a lot of fantastic audio mixes lately? Hopefully the bar has been permanently raised.

Any idea if the region A of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince is region free? I am planning to get it from Amazon.
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post #298 of 3096 Old 11-27-2009, 03:00 AM
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Deep Purple Live at Montreux (DTS-HD HR) - Tier 3

There are also choices for Dolby 5.1 and PCM 2.0. It doesn't matter which codec you pick, none of them are very good. The vocals are difficult to hear in every song. However when the crowd is singing you can hear that clearly. The music is generally harsh sounding, not a lot of clarity, more just "noise." I was hoping at least Smoke on the Water would be different, but it wasn't. I'll stick to my SACD of Machinehead.

Stevie Nicks Soundstage (PCM 5.1) - Tier 0
Seal Soundstage (PCM 5.1) - Tier 0

Comments are the same for both. Being from Chicago I'd been to the older Soundstage venue and it had pretty good acoustics. I suspect this one is even better. These 2 concerts and the Michael McDonald Soundstage blu-ray I previously reviewed all have the same really good qualities. Clear crisp vocals. Clean sounding. I usually listen to music with the avr on direct which provides more LFE as I prefer in music and none of these disappoint in that regard. You can pick out some of the other instruments such as congas.
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post #299 of 3096 Old 11-27-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Return to Forever:Returns (DTS HD MA) Reference (concerts)

I think there has only been one vote for the "Return to Forever Returns" BD. I don't know what that vote was, but for a concert blu-ray this disk is reference for me. I viewed it last night, and the DTS HD MA track sound was simply AMAZING!

You really have to be into this kind of Jazz/Fusion to like this music title, but these musicians are nothing but top notch and have been around for a long long time. The instruments are crystal clear, and the bass extension for some of them is tremendous. I have seen alot of concert blu-ray's, but this one is at the top of my list for SQ.

There was 2 vote but one [mine] was for the the PCM 2 channel mix, since I found the MCH mix simply "unlistenable", so instead giving a really low tier rating, I opted to rate the 2 channel mix only which was fantastic indeed.

The Hun
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post #300 of 3096 Old 11-27-2009, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Scubawoman View Post

Deep Purple Live at Montreux (DTS-HD HR) - Tier 3

There are also choices for Dolby 5.1 and PCM 2.0. It doesn't matter which codec you pick, none of them are very good. The vocals are difficult to hear in every song. However when the crowd is singing you can hear that clearly. The music is generally harsh sounding, not a lot of clarity, more just "noise." I was hoping at least Smoke on the Water would be different, but it wasn't. I'll stick to my SACD of Machinehead.

I have this on HD DVD with the same track complements, but I won't give official rating here because it's not a BD. In any case I consider this a major disappointment too, although I would probably give it tier 2.
I have Machinehead on DVD-A, and that thing sounds so good it rivals anything that recorded today.

The Hun
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