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post #31 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 01:55 PM
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A Bug's Life......I also voted Reference for this track in the previous thread if that helps.

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen......DTS MA 5.1 ......Tier 0

After watching this movie (rented from NetFlix, non IMAX version) to me it falls short of reference for a few reasons. There are a few momnets in the movie where the dialog is inconsistent and seems to increase and decrease throughout the movie. Also, as has been mentioned already, some of the scenes where I was expecting a nice use of LFE, it never came (bridge destruction in the beginning and when the helicopter dropped the car into the building and it fell on its roof for example). Surrounds are used throughout and very effectively and for the most part, LFE is excellent as well.

I can see how others vote this one for reference, but for me, it falls just short.
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post #32 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen......DTS MA 5.1 ......Tier 0

Also, as has been mentioned already, some of the scenes where I was expecting a nice use of LFE, it never came (bridge destruction in the beginning and when the helicopter dropped the car into the building and it fell on its roof for example).

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen IMAX......DTS MA 5.1 ......Tier 1

I wouldn't even give this title Tier 0. Many of the really big explosions or action peaks sound like they are compressed. It is like the mixer started the action scene too hot and when the sound level should peak, some soft limiting was introduced. This makes some of the action scenes anti-climatic. This was also my feeling in the theater. Also some of the timbre of the explosions and special effects sound weird to me (not enough high frequency content). I was hoping that the theater sound system was messed up but I now see it is the sound mix.

(The opening scene is the worst offender, but the pattern exists throughout the movie.)
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post #33 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappend View Post

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen IMAX......DTS MA 5.1 ......Tier 1

I wouldn't even give this title Tier 0. Many of the really big explosions or action peaks sound like they are compressed. It is like the mixer started the action scene too hot and when the sound level should peak, some soft limiting was introduced. This makes some of the action scenes anti-climatic. This was also my feeling in the theater. Also some of the timbre of the explosions and special effects sound weird to me (not enough high frequency content). I was hoping that the theater sound system was messed up but I now see it is the sound mix.

(The opening scene is the worst offender, but the pattern exists throughout the movie.)

Since you are viewing the Walmart BSE, make sure you turn up the volume on your AVR/processor to make up for dial norm being applied to this version. If you did that and still feel that it's Tier 1, well, then I can't help you.
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post #34 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 02:27 PM
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Visions of the Sea (Dolby 2.0) - Tier 2

This is different than another blu-ray titled Visions of the Sea Explorations. This is the one with Al Giddings as the cinematographer which was just recently released. The back of the blu-ray case shows this as being Dolby 5.1 but it isn't.

The main feature has narration but at times just the music is playing which is clear. The narration is clear, not distracting and is educational. The music plays throughout and is very pleasant and soothing. It would have been so much better in 5.1 thus the lower tier rating. The special feature is an additional 59 min. of underwater video with just music playing, the same quality as in the main feature. 1080i for main and special feature.

Set It Off (TrueHD 7.1) - Tier 0

It is a litle difficult to hear dialogue in the very beginning of the movie but I think it is more due to the actors speaking quickly rather than the mix as the rest of the dialogue is clear. LFE is at times significant mainly in the helicopter scenes (especially in the last 20 min.) but also at other times with action and music throughout the movie. At times the action and music could have used more LFE. Rumbling bass on a few occasions. Surround use throughout with good directionality for action and ambience. Discrete sounds such as glass breaking, autowinder of a camera. I enjoyed this mix.

Some may wonder why I would rate this in a higher tier than Transformers Revenge of the Fallen. For my taste this mix brings more all around sound quality including discrete sounds and LFE in the effects. The music generally has good LFE but the music doesn't substitute for LFE in the action as I feel it often did in TROF.

Fatal Attraction (TrueHD) - Tier 3

Dialogue is clear throughout. Dialogue driven with sound directed from the front. Surround use was only aprreciated a few times for ambience but nothing more. The very ending of the movie would have been better served by some surround use as it would have made the ending more alarming than it was (not to give it away in case someone here hasn't seen this movie).
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post #35 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

Since you are viewing the Walmart BSE, make sure you turn up the volume on your AVR/processor to make up for dial norm being applied to this version. If you did that and still feel that it's Tier 1, well, then I can't help you.

You must not have read what I wrote. Volume has nothing to do with what I reported. I think most people are happy to hear their surrounds and subwoofer come alive and vote for reference when they do as long as dialog is ok. I expect accurate reproductions from the sound tracks that matches the scene. If you listen to the opening scene and can tell yourself that is how it would sound in the real world, then I can not help you.

Yes, before I even bought the WM edition. I knew about the dialog norm and compensated on playback.
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post #36 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatHappend View Post

You must not have read what I wrote. Volume has nothing to do with what I reported. I think most people are happy to hear their surrounds and subwoofer come alive and vote for reference when they do as long as dialog is ok. I expect accurate reproductions from the sound tracks that matches the scene. If you listen to the opening scene and can tell yourself that is how it would sound in the real world, then I can not help you.

Yes, before I even bought the WM edition. I knew about the dialog norm and compensated on playback.

The last paragraph of your response is all I wanted to know. No need for snootiness here.
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post #37 of 3127 Old 10-25-2009, 08:09 PM
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Mad Money (Canadian release) (TrueHD) - Tier 2
The Last Holiday (TrueHD) - Tier 2

Same comments for both. Dialogue is clear throughout. Dialogue driven with sound directed from the front with nice separation. Surrounds for ambience and music. LFE appropriate for the movies.
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post #38 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 02:31 AM
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Contact - Panasonic DMP-BD80 connected to my legacy AVR with analog outs. Panny Display Info reports 2.1ch Dolby TrueHD. Yet to check in my PS3. Did anyone notice this? Btw, I am yet to upgrade my Panny fearing abrupt power cuts which is common in my country.

Otherwise, I am fine with Tier-0 placement. Top marks for never going over the top. Decent Dynamics. Surround and LFE usage only when required. Looks the mix was done at slightly lower volume as I had to increase the volume by 4-5 dB.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #39 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 07:45 AM
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Transformers: ROTF (Walmart Edition) - DTS MA 5.1 - Tier Reference

Not much more to be said then what already has been said. I had no issues with dialogue, and the only nit-picking I can do is with the LFE mix. As others have noted, it wasn't as hot in scenes where it was expected, and maybe too hot in others. I'd have a hard time knocking this down a tier due to the few scenes where I felt it was a little off. This is a demo worthy title that is on par with the rest of the titles in the Reference tier.

I had a few friends over to watch and they all agreed that had it not been for the spectacular audio on this disc, that they would have never made it through the movie at thier own home.

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post #40 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 12:57 PM
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FilmMixer,

Have you heard anything back from your Paramount contact RE: Transformers 2 IMAX BD soundtrack?
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post #41 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Kn0w View Post

FilmMixer,

Have you heard anything back from your Paramount contact RE: Transformers 2 IMAX BD soundtrack?

Not yet... but I was thinking it through yesterday, and I had realized the simplest solution had eluded me..

They mixed the IMAX version first, and then did a cut down for the theatrical release... they then handed over a complete 5.1 track to IMAX for mastering.

I had assumed that they did the opposite... I was "over engineering" the problem.

As far as I know, and many who have both discs seems to confirm, the only difference is the dialog norm setting on the WM disc.

I'll still let you know when I hear back however.
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post #42 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for the kudos and feedback . . . and of course, the continued audio ratings.

Just a note: I will generally update the OP on Saturdays, as that is when I have the most available free time. So don't be discouraged if you don't see your comments acted on ASAP. A time and a place for everything, you know?

So look for the next update on Halloween. I expect to see an uptick in horror movie rankings over the next few days.
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post #43 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 06:06 PM
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^ The family and I will be watching Ice Age 3 tomorrow night, so I'll be sure to post impressions tomorrow night or Wednesday morning.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #44 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 08:43 PM
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Trick r Treat - Dolby TrueHD 5.1 - Tier 1

The audio for this movie far surpassed anything I was expecting, with this being a DTV blu-ray after all (or DTB as it may be). The dialogue was clear and never too low in the mix, the surrounds were active, and the bass was appropriate when necessary. Sound effects were really well done setting a very creepy Halloween night atmosphere. The score was a very pleasant surprise as well. It was very clear, and never distracting. There were plenty of typical music and sound effect scares, if you're into that sort of thing. Again, I wasn't expecting much here, but it was one of the better horror movie scores I have heard in years.

Any issues with the disc are minor. At times, the audio was a bit front heavy, and the surrounds were a little lower in the mix than I would've liked (I actually raised my surround level a few DBs half way through the movie which really helped). It isn't demo worthy by any means, but it is extremely capable and worth any horror fans time and money.
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post #45 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Not yet... but I was thinking it through yesterday, and I had realized the simplest solution had eluded me..

They mixed the IMAX version first, and then did a cut down for the theatrical release... they then handed over a complete 5.1 track to IMAX for mastering.

I had assumed that they did the opposite... I was "over engineering" the problem.

As far as I know, and many who have both discs seems to confirm, the only difference is the dialog norm setting on the WM disc.

I'll still let you know when I hear back however.

I am excited to hear back from you on this. Now on my setup bitstreaming BDP-05 to my SC-05 receiver I am getting more bass from the regular edition vs. the Imax measured using a sound level meter after dialogue has been matched by the 4db difference.
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post #46 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonham2 View Post

Trick r Treat - Dolby TrueHD 5.1 - Tier 1

The audio for this movie far surpassed anything I was expecting, with this being a DTV blu-ray after all (or DTB as it may be).

I don't think it was supposed to be, Warner messed up the theatrical release somehow.

Grace (PCM) - Tier 2
This could go tier 3, its largely dialogue driven which sometimes comes through loud and clear and other times sounds as if it was recorded inside an actual coffee can, one particular line reading sounds so bad it almost sounds like a lazy dub. There's some LFE, surround use is OK, the score sounds solid - which I did enjoy. I think they could have played with the soundfield a whole lot more to make the movie more effective in terms of psychological horror without resulting to "jolts", which the movie avoids in either case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I am excited to hear back from you on this. Now on my setup bitstreaming BDP-05 to my SC-05 receiver I am getting more bass from the regular edition vs. the Imax measured using a sound level meter after dialogue has been matched by the 4db difference.

Really? Do you have any particular examples? It should just be a bit of dialnorm.

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

Studio quality tier
Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)
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post #47 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I am excited to hear back from you on this. Now on my setup bitstreaming BDP-05 to my SC-05 receiver I am getting more bass from the regular edition vs. the Imax measured using a sound level meter after dialogue has been matched by the 4db difference.

Curious....

There are a couple of posts in the Waterfalls thread where they are showing the LFE to be identical after the +4db boost..

Link to post and captures

Quote:


I made some waterfalls of the big screen version vs the small screen version, and when the 4dB dialnorm attenuation is taken into account, they are identical....

Here is the opening paramount scene for each....and on other scenes, same thing...

JSS

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...7&d=1256330556
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...8&d=1256330556

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post #48 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 10:03 PM
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Easy Rider (TrueHD) - Tier 3

Dialogue is clear but often sounding hollow and one-dimensional but then at other times not so much. Most of the music sounds much better than the dialogue, more clear and full but lacking in LFE for me. Born to be Wild and The Pusher sound the best to me. Chopper sounds, gunshots and other effects didn't sound natural. There was a hint of LFE in the beginning of the movie (airplane sounds) with good directionality from surrounds to front. Surrounds were otherwise used for music and on occasion for ambience. Good effort for a 40 year old movie.
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post #49 of 3127 Old 10-26-2009, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Curious....

There are a couple of posts in the Waterfalls thread where they are showing the LFE to be identical after the +4db boost..

Thanks, I just looked at that. Not a big difference, but I am getting a +1db boost on any explosion, rumble, gunshot or LFE related issue with the standard edition consistently, I have tested these scenes numerous times on different days, same results. Sound level meter mounted on a tripod. Polk LSi speakers all the way around to include sub. Bitstreaming again Pioneer BDP-05FD to SC-05 all speakers set to small, 80hz crossover.

Now if I set the decoding DTS-HD within the bluray player the results are identical after the 4db boost. My receiver must be doing something then.
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post #50 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 05:02 AM
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A Bug's Life (DTS-HD MA 5.1) - Reference

Another vote to place this title in the reference tier. Subtle ambient sounds of the great outdoors make you feel like you are in the environment. You'll hear all the sounds of nature around you, while never missing a line of dialogue. The grasshopper arrival at the ant hole early in the movie is a demo worthy scene for all things HT.

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post #51 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Thanks, I just looked at that. Not a big difference, but I am getting a +1db boost on any explosion, rumble, gunshot or LFE related issue with the standard edition consistently, I have tested these scenes numerous times on different days, same results. Sound level meter mounted on a tripod. Polk LSi speakers all the way around to include sub. Bitstreaming again Pioneer BDP-05FD to SC-05 all speakers set to small, 80hz crossover.

Now if I set the decoding DTS-HD within the bluray player the results are identical after the 4db boost. My receiver must be doing something then.

On your SC-05 what EQ mode are you running; Symmetry, All CH Adj or Front Align?




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post #52 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Thanks, I just looked at that. Not a big difference, but I am getting a +1db boost on any explosion, rumble, gunshot or LFE related issue with the standard edition consistently, I have tested these scenes numerous times on different days, same results. Sound level meter mounted on a tripod. Polk LSi speakers all the way around to include sub. Bitstreaming again Pioneer BDP-05FD to SC-05 all speakers set to small, 80hz crossover.

Now if I set the decoding DTS-HD within the bluray player the results are identical after the 4db boost. My receiver must be doing something then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

On your SC-05 what EQ mode are you running; Symmetry, All CH Adj or Front Align?

I assume you are running MCACC also, right? Any LFE boost in your settings? I know mine is set for -.5
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post #53 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Thanks, I just looked at that. Not a big difference, but I am getting a +1db boost on any explosion, rumble, gunshot or LFE related issue with the standard edition consistently, I have tested these scenes numerous times on different days, same results. Sound level meter mounted on a tripod. Polk LSi speakers all the way around to include sub. Bitstreaming again Pioneer BDP-05FD to SC-05 all speakers set to small, 80hz crossover.

Now if I set the decoding DTS-HD within the bluray player the results are identical after the 4db boost. My receiver must be doing something then.

On you Pio SC05 receiver, are you using Direct mode to compare, e.g no PLIIx nor THX processing? That will make a big difference.

Pio receivers won't apply PLIIx to DTS-HD tracks. The only processing you can apply is THX. You can apply any processing to LPCM.
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post #54 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

On you Pio SC05 receiver, are you using Direct mode to compare, e.g no PLIIx nor THX processing? That will make a big difference.

Pio receivers won't apply PLIIx to DTS-HD tracks. The only processing you can apply is THX. You can apply any processing to LPCM.

Are you sure? I can apply PLIIx to DTS-HD MA 5.1. The front display won't show it(it will display DTS-HD MSTR), but if you have the rear speakers set to always ON then they will be active and use PLIIx. Just set SBch to ON, put in a DTS-HD MA 5.1 movie and go listen to the back speakers. I use PLIIx all the time with DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies and PLIIx with my pio receiver bitstreamed and LPCM from the PS3 slim.

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post #55 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Are you sure? I can apply PLIIx to DTS-HD MA 5.1. The front display won't show it(it will display DTS-HD MSTR), but if you have the rear speakers set to always ON then they will be active and use PLIIx. Just set SBch to ON, put in a DTS-HD MA 5.1 movie and go listen to the back speakers. I use PLIIx all the time with DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies and PLIIx with my pio receiver bitstreamed and LPCM from the PS3 slim.

I'm pretty sure about it because it is clearly documented in the manual of all Pio receivers (including SC-09). What you heard is probably the different speaker mappings that DTS uses. But PLIIx will not be able to apply to any of the DTS formats.
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post #56 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I'm pretty sure about it because it is clearly documented in the manual of all Pio receivers (including SC-09). What you heard is probably the different speaker mappings that DTS uses. But PLIIx will not be able to apply to any of the DTS formats.

Yes it is documented, but how am I watching DTS-HD MA 5.1 and getting 7.1 speakers without PLIIx? According to th etable in th emanual I should only be able get 5.1.

I can clearly hit the PLIIx option and the receiver flashes PLIIx on the display and then constantly shows DTS-HD MSTR. I can't be getting plain old Dolby PLII because Dolby PLII only works for stereo sources while PLIIx works for stereo and 5.1. Plus while the display says DTS-HD MSTR the receiver's PLIIx light is on.

Sounds to me like the manual needs updating.

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post #57 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Yes it is documented, but how am I watching DTS-HD MA 5.1 and getting 7.1 speakers without PLIIx? According to th etable in th emanual I should only be able get 5.1.

I can clearly hit the PLIIx option and the receiver flashes PLIIx on the display and then constantly shows DTS-HD MSTR. I can't be getting plain old Dolby PLII because Dolby PLII only works for stereo sources while PLIIx works for stereo and 5.1. Plus while the display says DTS-HD MSTR the receiver's PLIIx light is on.

Sounds to me like the manual needs updating.

DTS-HD uses various speaker mappings. It usually the case that a 5.1 track speaker mappings does not match what the 5.1 speakers positioned in a 7.1 layout. As part of decoding process, the decoder must apply proper speaker mappings according to DTS standards. That's the same reason why all Panasonic BD players' internal decoding of DTS-HD is always LPCM 7.1, not 5.1.
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post #58 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

DTS-HD uses various speaker mappings. It usually the case that a 5.1 track speaker mappings does not match what the 5.1 speakers positioned in a 7.1 layout. As part of decoding process, the decoder must apply proper speaker mappings according to DTS standards. That's the same reason why all Panasonic BD players' internal decoding of DTS-HD is always LPCM 7.1, not 5.1.

I agree, but the PLIIx light is also on when I'm playing DTS-HD MA 5.1 and the display says" DTS-HD MSTR, which would suggest I'm using PLIIx.

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post #59 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I agree, but the PLIIx light is also on when I'm playing DTS-HD MA 5.1 and the display says" DTS-HD MSTR, which would suggest I'm using PLIIx.

I beg to differ. (1) Manual says you can't apply PLIIx to DTS-HD (2) For all other signal types, PLIIx is displayed along side the signal type. With DTS-HD MSTR, you don't get anything else.

I don't remember PLIIx indicator is on when DTS-HD is playing. But I'm not sure.
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post #60 of 3127 Old 10-27-2009, 02:00 PM
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I'm looking at it on my 92TXH right now while Transformers ROTF is playing while bitstreamed from the PS3 slim. The illuminated light says: PRO LOGIC IIx

I guess we should have this conversation offline or in the big Pio 92 & 94 threads. I got wrapped up in this and realized we are taking the Audio Tier thread way off topic.

Sorry everyone.

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