Avatar BD - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Center cropping on the vertical axis to 2.35:1 (2.39, 2.4, whatever it technically is for Avatar) would basically get it to its scope ratio.
Fang Zei is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NetworkTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 15,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Center cropping on the vertical axis to 2.35:1 (2.39, 2.4, whatever it technically is for Avatar) would basically get it to its scope ratio.

That's not cropping - it's masking...something you can't do on a TV without also cropping the sides. Even then, some TVs can't alter the image that way.

The only solution would either be a separate encode or the Java masking solution mentioned above.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NetworkTV is offline  
post #183 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Sorry, that's what I meant, matting it.
Fang Zei is offline  
post #184 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:41 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NetworkTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 15,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

Sorry, that's what I meant, matting it.

Right, and how do you propose people do it with the upcoming BD release if they don't have a projector?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NetworkTV is offline  
post #185 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Right, and how do you propose people do it with the upcoming BD release if they don't have a projector?

I was only speaking hypothetically. Now that people bring up the java idea, it makes me wonder why they didn't just include that as an option. Maybe they will for one of the later releases.
Fang Zei is offline  
post #186 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kram Sacul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you use a HTPC you can do it in just about any software player (Zoom Player, MPC, VLC, etc).
Kram Sacul is offline  
post #187 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 11:17 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NetworkTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 15,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

If you use a HTPC you can do it in just about any software player (Zoom Player, MPC, VLC, etc).

..and the percentage of people that do that is...pretty insignificant.

If it can't be done by the majority of viewers, it's not a solution.

That being said, the majority is unlikely to care.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NetworkTV is offline  
post #188 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 11:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

That being said, the majority is unlikely to care.

And they'd be right not to.

16:9 is the OAR of this film.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #189 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 11:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kram Sacul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well you can always put pieces of cardboard on your tv to mask it to 2.35:1.

Avatar seems to be the only film in the universe where the 2.35:1 version is considered as a compromise, like Cameron was somehow forced to fit his film into that aspect ratio.
Kram Sacul is offline  
post #190 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 11:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
It would be just as accurate to say that there are, in fact, two OAR's for this movie. Cameron has said he prefers the 2.35:1 version for compositional purposes and - having seen both versions - I would say I prefer it for those purposes also. On the other hand, since they wanted this to play not only in narrower/taller/smaller theaters (not suitable for 2.35:1) but in much much larger theaters (IMAX) as well, they rendered everything in the 16:9 ratio since they intended it to be shown that way as well.

Having said all that - and also making it clear that I never saw the movie in 2D - I think that since this blu-ray is 2D they should be preserving how this movie looked in 2D which is 2.35:1, not 16:9. Now, I could be mistaken. Maybe there were non-3D digital screens out there that showed it in 16:9.
Fang Zei is offline  
post #191 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 01:28 PM
sb1
AVS Special Member
 
sb1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Well, my screen is 2.35:1, so I wanted Avatar to be the same. I wasn't sure what it was actually filmed in. Still, OAR wins over my personal preferences (Or rather, OAR is my preferred preference).

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

sb1 is offline  
post #192 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 02:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dcowboy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pequannock, NJ
Posts: 5,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 97
Since its a combo pack & there also is a dvd with the blu why didnt they just do:
- blu 16:9
- dvd 2.35

dcowboy7 is offline  
post #193 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 03:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brandon B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LA lalalalala
Posts: 3,973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbase1 View Post

Avatar makes me want to watch the smurfs.

Unfortunately, you will be getting your wish: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472181/
Brandon B is offline  
post #194 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 04:18 PM
sb1
AVS Special Member
 
sb1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Unfortunately, you will be getting your wish: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472181/

Ummm.....Interesting? Not really sure how to respond to that one.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

sb1 is offline  
post #195 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 08:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MattGuyOR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
It still doesn't make much sense to me to release a 2.39:1 version at all if it wasn't framed that way. I saw this in IMAX and I noticed many, many times where there was dead space above and below and was hoping to catch the movie in scope before it's left the theater to compare. There really should be two versions available, just like there was in the theaters.
MattGuyOR is offline  
post #196 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 09:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xb1032's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Nobody's making you buy it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:


What's being lost amidst all this whining is that many, many people love this movie. The chance to watch it at home, at will, repeatedly, is easily worth the money it will cost to buy it.

The customers are happy. Fox is happy. The only people who aren't happy are the whiny haters who make a career out of being unhappy.

I hope you aren't putting me in the 'whiny hater' camp for simply agreeing with someone for feeling the company is milking this one. Like I said, I'm buying the movie and I did enjoy it and I don't feel the need for the extended version nor the extras. My only complaint about this release is I would have at least liked a simple menu on the disc.
xb1032 is offline  
post #197 of 1752 Old 03-19-2010, 10:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I hope you aren't putting me in the 'whiny hater' camp for simply agreeing with someone for feeling the company is milking this one.

If I owned a cow, I'd milk it, and sell the milk. The next day I'd do it again. Kind of the point of being a dairy.

Quote:


My only complaint about this release is I would have at least liked a simple menu on the disc.

Seems strange, if there are language and subtitle choices to be made, not to have a menu.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #198 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 05:53 AM
Member
 
iDarren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No, for the 2d presentation, Cameron has said he framed for 2.35 to 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

And they'd be right not to.

16:9 is the OAR of this film.

iDarren is offline  
post #199 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 07:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sujay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDarren View Post

No, for the 2d presentation, Cameron has said he framed for 2.35 to 1.

Apparently he has changed his mind, or we wouldn't be seeing it released as such.
Sujay is offline  
post #200 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 08:00 AM
Member
 
zeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post

Unfortunately, you will be getting your wish: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472181/

I wonder if it is true to the "lore": An evil wizard, a cat, a village full of male smurfs and one (1) girl smurf. Hmmm.

Panamorphing Power Ranger
zeto is offline  
post #201 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 08:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,770
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sujay View Post

Apparently he has changed his mind, or we wouldn't be seeing it released as such.

We dont know how much input Fox have in this. Cameron as one of the biggest directors in Hollywood has alot to say, but dont count out the one that actually paying the bills has something to say about the release. They have invested money and wants money back. And im sure Cameron is a pro that he actually understands how the business works. And apperently he seems fine with any aspect ratio.

Maybe because they asume that homedisplays are 16:9 and by releasing the movie as 16:9 they give the viewers the biggest display possible. Of course they didnt count that people also have 2.39:1 screens nowdays.

Remember that Cameron(or Fox) decided to create a 2.39:1 3D version for theater aswell.

So it seems like their wishes is that you should use the biggest possible displayarea for watching this movie.

If 2.39:1 displays had been the standard display in peoples homes, we would have gotten a 2:39:1 release on BD.
MovieSwede is offline  
post #202 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDarren View Post

No, for the 2d presentation, Cameron has said he framed for 2.35 to 1.

For theaters. He was talking about theaters. Homes aren't theaters. If you have a theater in your home, you probably also have a way to matte the 16:9 frame, which is exactly how the 2.35 version was made.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #203 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 10:51 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NetworkTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 15,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeto View Post

I wonder if it is true to the "lore": An evil wizard, a cat, a village full of male smurfs and one (1) girl smurf. Hmmm.

Even more of a "hmmm" is the fact that the one and only female smurf (until the little kid smurfs came along several seasons later - one was a girl) was actually created by the evil wizard, so there never was one before. She actually was never a real smurf.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NetworkTV is offline  
post #204 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 351
Cameron has always had complete control of his projects. He has already said he was involved with the Blu-ray. If he wanted the release 2.35:1, it would be. The encode work would be easier as well. So I think all this bickering on what is the right aspect ratio is ridiculous. It was shot 16x9, it was shown in scope because of the nature of most theater screens being constant height. Either buy it or don't, the constant back and forth is getting pretty juvenile.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kris Deering is offline  
post #205 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 11:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,425
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1059 Post(s)
Liked: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeto View Post

a village full of male smurfs and one (1) girl smurf

In the Saturday morning cartoon show, they always drew her very tired looking, like she never got any sleep. Weird.

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #206 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 11:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jedi2016's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 47
I imagine the percentage of people who give a damn are around 0.002% of the people who will buy this film.

For me, the framing doesn't factor as much because Cameron shot it for BOTH. And at 1.78, it'll fill the whole screen. You want to talk dead space? I'd rather see it this way, on my 1.78 display, than seeing true dead space in the form of black bars that, in this case, aren't needed.

The only ones I can see having a fit about it are CIH viewers, and I don't see the issue.. the 2.39 crop was done center-frame, so just project it as-is and be done with it. Subtitles are high in the frame, you'll still be able to see them. So even the CIH viewers aren't going to really miss anything. So what's the fuss?

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
Jedi2016 is offline  
post #207 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 11:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NetworkTV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 15,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

So what's the fuss?

It's AVS - everything is a fuss.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NetworkTV is offline  
post #208 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom Monahan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Butte, Montana Hometown of the late Evel Knievel
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Cameron has always had complete control of his projects. He has already said he was involved with the Blu-ray. If he wanted the release 2.35:1, it would be. The encode work would be easier as well. So I think all this bickering on what is the right aspect ratio is ridiculous. It was shot 16x9, it was shown in scope because of the nature of most theater screens being constant height. Either buy it or don't, the constant back and forth is getting pretty juvenile.

Spoken like a guy who uses a 16x9 screen and not a scope setup.

My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
Tom Monahan is offline  
post #209 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Robert George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas.
Posts: 3,768
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

Spoken like a guy who uses a 16x9 screen and not a scope setup.

Translated, spoken like a guy who has a practical knowledge of how this business works instead of a selfish, self-centered guy who can't see past his own opinions.
Robert George is offline  
post #210 of 1752 Old 03-20-2010, 01:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

Spoken like a guy who uses a 16x9 screen and not a scope setup.

Theaters and those few homes that have CIH setups are the only places where scope ratio is actually bigger in raw square footage than 1.85:1.

So it's obvious why Cameron preferred scope for 2D in theaters.

It's equally obvious why he would prefer 16:9 for home video, where it results in a bigger display in 99.999999999% of homes.

This is consistent. He wants the biggest possible image in whatever venue the film is seen in.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Software

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off