36th Chamber of Shaolin: Stay away! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Rathbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Review:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCom...6thchamber.htm

Comparison with the French release (screenshot of the DD disc taken from DVDBeaver)

US (DVDBeaver):


French:
Rathbone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 09:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sharkcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Combing makes my eyes bleed

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
sharkcohen is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 10:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
42041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Don't assume DVDbeaver's screencaps are accurate. They often introduce artifacts and issues that simply aren't in the real disc.
Go look at their Invention of Lying review. It's certainly not a great looking film but it does not have that combing and vertical resolution loss at all, that's a flaw of their captures.
42041 is offline  
 
post #4 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 10:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
xradman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I cancelled my order. You would think that a major studio like Weinstein/Vivendi would know how to master a Blu-ray by now. Who is running these operations? Bunch of monkeys?

Addicted to shiny round discs with HD content

My Home Theater
My Movie Collection
BDP-83 EAP (second group)
xradman is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 10:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Paul Arnette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 16
While I never got a warm fuzzy about these releases due to Weinstein/Vivendi's involvement, I agree with 42041 in that you cannot take DVD Beaver's screencaps as gospel. In fact they're usually near worthless, but sometimes you can see enough problems present to make an educated guess. This looks like one of those times and it does not bode well for The Killer either.
Paul Arnette is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 10:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
42041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quickly going through some of the Beaver's other recent reviews: The Hangover and Jennifer's Body have incorrect RGB range conversion, Harry Potter 6 is another one someone pointed out in another thread, Seabiscuit and Black Dynamite have the same combing issue... all of them are low-quality JPEG images... The disc may well be rubbish, but you might want to confirm with a more credible source first before making thread titles like this.
42041 is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Rathbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Even if the beaver caps are not correct. The difference can't be THAT huge to even remotely match the sharpness and detail of the french version. I wonder which deinterlacer they used. Looks like Bob.

Regarding the jpg size. I did some other comparisons with DVDBeaver caps and compared them to png caps of discs I own myself (e.g. The Ladykillers). There is virtually no visible difference in detail or artifacting.
Rathbone is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 12:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eric.exe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 22
The French release has some really horrible scratch filtering errors. In the opening when Sun Te is swinging the double sided spear around, half the time the ends are completely filtered out and it looks like he's flailing around a twig.

And ya, the DVDBeaver shots looks like they are improperly taken. They also should have taken shots of only the progressive frames.
eric.exe is online now  
post #9 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 03:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
raoul_duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Oh, Rathbone...
raoul_duke is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 02-19-2010, 11:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dan Average's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The DD Blu is over 4 1/2 minutes shorter than their DVD and roughly the same as the PAL-sourced Celestial disc. So presumably the BD is from a 50Hz source, but then why isn't that also the case with the DVD?

And on the subject of sloppy work from DVD Beaver, their caps of the DD DVD are horrible. I don't see how anyone could look at those (#5 in particular) and not realize that something went badly awry in the capping process.

Quote:
The French release has some really horrible scratch filtering errors. In the opening when Sun Te is swinging the double sided spear around, half the time the ends are completely filtered out and it looks like he's flailing around a twig.

...and that's some pretty severe cropping in Rathbone's comparison. As the French say, le sigh.
Dan Average is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 04:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stevie76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arvika, Sweden
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Wait so there is a french BD out?
Or is that the french DVD version that happens to be sharper than the horrid US BD?
Stevie76 is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Rathbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

The DD Blu is over 4 1/2 minutes shorter than their DVD and roughly the same as the PAL-sourced Celestial disc. So presumably the BD is from a 50Hz source, but then why isn't that also the case with the DVD?

Celestial remastered their DVD releases in PAL. Thats the reason why the HK DVDs looked so horrible (combing, ghosting) compared to PAL releases.
So yes, it's possible that DD's source Material is indeed 50 Hz.

Quote:
Wait so there is a french BD out?
Or is that the french DVD version that happens to be sharper than the horrid US BD?

It's a Blu-ray boxset with all three films in a beautiful package.

Rathbone is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 09:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
Dan Average's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Celestial remastered their DVD releases in PAL. Thats the reason why the HK DVDs looked so horrible (combing, ghosting) compared to PAL releases.
So yes, it's possible that DD's source Material is indeed 50 Hz.

But the DD DVD has the proper runtime and (as far as I can tell) shows no signs of standards conversion. So how did they get a non-50Hz source for the DVD? If anything you'd think it'd be the other way around.
Dan Average is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 11:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stevie76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arvika, Sweden
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathbone View Post

It's a Blu-ray boxset with all three films in a beautiful package.

Looks awesome
Is there any english subs on it?
Stevie76 is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Rathbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie76 View Post

Looks awesome
Is there any english subs on it?

No, only French.
Rathbone is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Rathbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Berlin / Germany
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

But the DD DVD has the proper runtime and (as far as I can tell) shows no signs of standards conversion. So how did they get a non-50Hz source for the DVD? If anything you'd think it'd be the other way around.

The original HK DVD is seven years old and all NTSC versions at this time suffered from the effects of PAL to NTSC conversion. My German PAL DVD is not even anamorphic but still looks better than the anamorphic HK DVD.

Maybe Celestial created a proper NTSC master over the years or DD did a proper conversion. Who knows.
Rathbone is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 02-20-2010, 12:49 PM
Member
 
Rhythm-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

But the DD DVD has the proper runtime and (as far as I can tell) shows no signs of standards conversion. So how did they get a non-50Hz source for the DVD? If anything you'd think it'd be the other way around.

Someone correct me if I go off the rails with this:

Could the DVD have been created using a sort of reverse version of PAL speedup? Could they have taken the 1920x1080 25fps source, deinterlaced and downscaled it to 720x480 while slowing it to 23.976fps, and then corrected the audio to match?
Rhythm-X is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 02-22-2010, 08:06 PM
Member
 
TGWTG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
French version looks awesome. Since I'm fluent in both cantonese and mandarin, it's definitely a worth buy even though it has no english subtitles.
TGWTG is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 02-23-2010, 03:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
Stevie76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arvika, Sweden
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I dont understand much cantonese and mandarin, just a few words, BUT I have seen this movie so many times I remember most of the dialogue and can live without the subs if I go for the French BD
Stevie76 is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 02-25-2010, 04:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eric.exe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 22
First off some proper screenshots, not as bad as DVDBeavers, but still quite poor.:




buuuut holy crap, this is the most unbelievably screwed up, mangled, flawed piece of crap Blu-ray ever released. The reason it runs 5 minutes shorter than the DVD releases is because it has mangled frame-interpolation from the 25fps/50hz master. It's 1080i60 but it doesn't have any inverse telecine to play at the original 24fps. Instead it's purely interlaced, every frame of it. So it can only be played at 60fps. Instead of 25fps to 24fps, they did 25fps to 60i with frame-blending. The conversion causes every frame to blended together, so there's constant blurring and chopiness. Also, the audio is an unlistenable mess, screwed from the conversion as well. It's completely distorted; pitched too higher, raspy, constantly echos. This just might be the worst disc on the format. I really can't believe this horrific thing was released for this classic. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid...
eric.exe is online now  
post #21 of 23 Old 02-25-2010, 09:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eapleitez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 17
You'd think that studios would have mastered putting movies on discs by now...

_____________________________
eapleitez is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 02-26-2010, 10:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
SlaughterX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Hmmm, perhaps I made a mistake selling my DVD... is it worse by comparison?
SlaughterX is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 03-15-2010, 12:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Rieper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York NY
Posts: 3,859
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGWTG View Post

French version looks awesome. Since I'm fluent in both cantonese and mandarin, it's definitely a worth buy even though it has no english subtitles.

It's region B locked... so if you're ordering/importing it from Amazon.fr make sure your Blu-ray player is region free.
Rieper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Software



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off