The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring HDTV vs Blu-ray Comparison - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 08:15 AM
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Lastly, the response should not be "they don't look that bad". It should be "these movies could and should look much better on a format that can achieve much better".
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post #362 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

To buy this product shows very little respect for film itself. If you must buy it, then purchase it for the sole reason to show others what happens when Studios get lazy.

How about buying it because it was so cheap you couldn't resist?

Otherwise I agree with you. I jumped on the pre-order price, was planning on waiting for the EEs. Then, afterwards, I started reading the odd comments that the BDs weren't that great. Then a flood of comments. I found it hard to believe so many had seen the BDs so far in advance, but whatever...

Let me ask you a different question, which is the one I answered, but now we both know (or at least read) a little more: would you buy LOTR for under $20? IOW, is it so bad that you wouldn't buy it if it was really cheap, principles be damned? The MSRP actually seems very high to me, considering the only stuff of any potential value in it to most of us (we have the EE DVD sets) is three BDs of debateable PQ.
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post #363 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

How about buying it because it was so cheap you couldn't resist?

Otherwise I agree with you. I jumped on the pre-order price, was planning on waiting for the EEs. Then, afterwards, I started reading the odd comments that the BDs weren't that great. Then a flood of comments. I found it hard to believe so many had seen the BDs so far in advance, but whatever...

Let me ask you a different question, which is the one I answered, but now we both know (or at least read) a little more: would you buy LOTR for under $20? IOW, is it so bad that you wouldn't buy it if it was really cheap, principles be damned? The MSRP actually seems very high to me, considering the only stuff of any potential value in it to most of us (we have the EE DVD sets) is three BDs of debateable PQ.


I would rather pay $60-100 for these movies if they were remastered.
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post #364 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 09:28 AM
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^ I am much cheaper. I won't pay more than $20 per BD movie for a normal release, more like $15 in a set, and I expect superior quality for a catalog title or I won't buy period (I have the DVDs after all). In this case I made a mistake. So did the vendor.

The thing that "worries" me is: if they *couldn't* make the theatricals look better, is it reasonable to think the EEs can be made better? Same sources. Unless of course they now go back and redo the EE BDs because of all the fuss. Seems doubtful. Unless there's a purposeful screwing going on with the theatricals... I suppose the EEs could have been done more recently (ongoing?) and better techniques are being used, after learning what *not* to do...
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post #365 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 09:58 AM
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I've heard an insider tip (only rumor at this point) that the EEs might be here by Christmas.

I do hope if that's true that they do indeed do a proper scan of the original film elements at 4K and derive an improved qualtiy D1 for all three films, not to mention staying away from the DRS/DNR dial.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #366 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:07 AM
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I preordered them this weekend... Didn't plan on getting them initially but I thought oh well why not. *cough* after readgin this thread though, I'm ready to cancel my order... And patiently wait for the EEs....
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post #367 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:08 AM
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I already have both the TE and EE of this trilogy on DVD, so I can wait until they release a proper Blu-ray.
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post #368 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:20 AM
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^ Yes, but I would be disappointed if I preferred the TEs (I have no opinion) and may never see another BD release, at least for years. I don't recall NL "fixing" any substandard PQ BDs so far...oh wait, there weren't any. My comments are all assuming the fuss has some basis, not a fan of screencaps for judging as most times moving stuff annoys me a lot less.
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post #369 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ Yes, but I would be disappointed if I preferred the TEs (I have no opinion) and may never see another BD release, at least for years. I don't recall NL "fixing" any substandard BDs so far...oh wait, there weren't any.

Since they managed a dual-version release on DVD that I believe used branching, as long as they have two soundtracks, I'd think that the EE BD set would include both versions.

BTW, I'm assuming that was sarchasm regarding no substandard NL blu-rays (Pan's Labyrinth being so filtered).

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #370 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

I've heard an insider tip (only rumor at this point) that the EEs might be here by Christmas.

I guess your insider tip cant read french then because it was only an april fools joke on a french website.

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post #371 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dcowboy7 View Post

I guess your insider tip cant read french then because it was only an april fools joke on a french website.

My contact was hearing from Warner sources that there's a possible chance for holiday release of the EEs (and that conversation was last week).

Of course, similar rumors have been put forth from studio contacts before and never materialized (like during HD DVD/BD war when we heard that Indiana Jones and/or Back to the Future were about to come out on blu-ray) so nothing certain. but interesting nevertheless.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #372 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

To buy this product shows very little respect for film itself. If you must buy it, then purchase it for the sole reason to show others what happens when Studios get lazy.

This quote is beyond silly.

I have found this thread usefull to be able to make an informed choice. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but the thread starts to go off the rails when you start all this guilt trip sillyness.

I dont respect the film because I buy it? WTF??

Take a step back dude.

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #373 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:30 AM
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Man My brain hurts after all of this reading! Great debate on both sides! But I didn't see anywhere about the audio. Has anyone got a sneak peek (listen) on how the audio has been processed on the upcoming Blu-ray disk or how it sounds? Does it bring out the best in your home theater setup?
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post #374 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Urza View Post

This quote is beyond silly.

I have found this thread usefull to be able to make an informed choice. You certainly have a right to your opinion, but the thread starts to go off the rails when you start all this guilt trip sillyness.

I dont respect the film because I buy it? WTF??

Take a step back dude.

No you don't respect this film if you actually spend the money knowing full well it's a poor excuse of a product.

The only people who get a pass are those who don't check online reviews and forums.
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post #375 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

BTW, I'm assuming that was sarchasm regarding no substandard NL blu-rays (Pan's Labyrinth being so filtered).

Yes, sarcasm, I have PL. Heck, they didn't even fix the DTS audio problem (which is NOT an opinion, as PQ can be) on my Harold&Kumar/Guantanamo Bay BD...from this example, maybe you don't want them doing branching, unless they've learned how by now. Whatever, they don't seem to acknowledge or fix blatant problems. I didn't even notice the weird ship in the opening of The New World until RAH pointed it out LOL.
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post #376 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

No you don't respect this film if you actually spend the money for this poor excuse of a product.

No. His point is valid, sorry. "the only people who get a pass?" Who the EF are you, lol??

Someone stating why they won't personally buy is one thing, trying to convince OTHERS not to spend ahem, THEIR own money is another (read: the "you shouldn't buy" or "you're crazy if you buy this set" posts). I don't see those of us who wish to purchase this trying to convince those of yooze who don't to buy it, so why play the guilt game and frown on those who wan't it? Lame. Slice it how you wan't, its still far superior to the DVD's (especially the TTT and ROTK, not to mention the audio)...so if thats your view of a poor excuse for a Blu Ray product, so be it, but you're wasting your time if you're gonna wage a personal war trying to stop others simply because they don't see it the way you do.

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post #377 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

No you don't respect this film if you actually spend the money knowing full well it's a poor excuse of a product.

The only people who get a pass are those who don't check online reviews and forums.

First, dont tell me what I respect and what I dont, thats up to me to decide.

Second, its the studio that would not respect, not people that buy.

Good lord people calm down, its just a movie.

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #378 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:11 AM
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First, dont tell me what I respect and what I dont, thats up to me to decide.

Second, its the studio that would not respect, not people that buy.

Good lord people calm down, its just a movie.

It's not just a movie, it's a lifestyle. I wear my Frodo outfit and quote the greatest lines of the movie everyday.
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post #379 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:13 AM
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First, dont tell me what I respect and what I dont, thats up to me to decide.

Second, its the studio that would not respect, not people that buy.

Good lord people calm down, its just a movie.

Rats, my Jedi mind tricks did not work on you. Shoot, I must practice more.
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post #380 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:31 AM
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I've yet to own a movie that gave me the option to choose between 16:9 and scope aspect ratios, what movies offer that option?

And which movies had different aspect ratios on DVD vs blu-ray?

No movie gives you that option, which is what I am saying. There SHOULD be an option. If they can broadcast a movie on an HD channel in 16:9, then you should be able to watch the Blu-ray release of the same movie in 16:9 if you want to.

As for different aspect ratios, check out Disney/Pixar's Cars. The DVD (enhanced for HDTVs) will fill the 16:9 screen, but the Bl-ray will not. Which makes no sense, because for Finding Nemo on DVD, instead of cutting off the sides for the 4:3 full screen version, they rendered more of the image on the top and bottom. So they could easily do the same for all their other films.
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post #381 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

No you don't respect this film if you actually spend the money knowing full well it's a poor excuse of a product.

The only people who get a pass are those who don't check online reviews and forums.

I agree with Urza, this stance is silly. The point of this thread is to help people make an informed choice. It really is OK if someone decides to buy this release.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #382 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:36 AM
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I agree with Urza, this stance is silly. The point of this thread is to help people make an informed choice. It really is OK if someone decides to buy this release.

Yes, those who purchase this blu-ray should be proud of themselves. I hope you all sleep like babies knowing full well you spent your hard earn money on such a great release.

This blu-ray is reference in every way possible.

Warner Bros/New Line did not do us wrong with this release. They should be applauded for their hard work on this release making sure it's up to the highest quality that only Blu-ray can offer.
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post #383 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:39 AM
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This forum never fails to entertain.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #384 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

Yes, those who purchase this blu-ray should be proud of themselves. I hope you all sleep like babies knowing full well you spent your hard earn money on such a great release.

This blu-ray is reference in every way possible.

Warner Bros/New Line did not do us wrong with this release. They should be applauded for their hard work on this release making sure it's up to the highest quality that only Blu-ray can offer.

You know, I'm as disappointed with the video quality of these Blu-Rays as you are. But you seem to know only black or white. How about some grey? The video quality of these Blu-Rays is still noticeably better than the DVDs. And the audio quality is reported to be fantastic.
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post #385 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:47 AM
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Ok, let's stop with the "if you buy this title, you are not a fan" (or any version of it) Nonsense. People can not buy or buy...it's an individual choice.

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post #386 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

Yes, I'm going to get these discs when they are available. I don't understand the part about proving anyone wrong, however. What I have seen posted is opinion based on assumption, including mine. I think these transfers look fine. Others disagree. I seriously doubt my opinion will change after I see the actual Blu-ray.



I have not, nor have I seen the first release. Not a movie I care that much about.

That's fair.

Its just sometimes people say some nasty things about the early reviews here at AVS then getting no apologies (no we are not looking for that LOL) when we are right after all.

The excuse of ". . . . not having seen the video master" is too easy of a cop out.
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post #387 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

You know, I'm as disappointed with the video quality of these Blu-Rays as you are. But you seem to know only black or white. How about some grey? The video quality of these Blu-Rays is still noticeably better than the DVDs. And the audio quality is reported to be fantastic.

"Better than DVD" that is all that matters.
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post #388 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 12:24 PM
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Patton is the poster child for DNR abuse, but I still bought it. I have probably watched it 5 or 6 times since then. Why? It's a fantastic film for one. Two, despite the fact that it doesn't look nearly as good as it deserves to look, watching it will not make your eyes burn out of your skull, rot your teeth, or give you cancer. It can be pleasant to watch, actually.

To anyone who refuses to buy LOTR because of these screenshots. more power to you. I see exactly what you're referring to in these comparisons, but to say that the Blu-ray shots looks like garbage or crap, well that simply isn't true. Inferior to the HDTV broadcast shots? For the most part, definitely. But, IMHO, to say that the Blu-ray shots look like crap is like saying the HDTV versions are like 90% and the Blu-rays are like 10%. That's not what I'm seeing here.

I am buying LOTR. When the extended versions are released I will buy those and sell these. Hopefully, the video situation will be improved. For all those who don't buy this release based on these screen shots, I totally respect your decision. Please respect mine.
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post #389 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 12:26 PM
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As for different aspect ratios, check out Disney/Pixar's Cars. The DVD (enhanced for HDTVs) will fill the 16:9 screen, but the Bl-ray will not. Which makes no sense, because for Finding Nemo on DVD, instead of cutting off the sides for the 4:3 full screen version, they rendered more of the image on the top and bottom. So they could easily do the same for all their other films.

Huh? Cars on DVD is 2.4 to one as presented in theaters.
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post #390 of 882 Old 03-29-2010, 12:29 PM
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It was made for Cinema, so the effects should be at least 2k HD even if they were made on a computer. It would be a really bad idea to make lower than 2k effects at a time when HD was being talked about, and some HD tv's already existed. But the main thing is that computers were already HD at the time. I can see what you are saying though, 4k film, and 2k effects could limit what you can do with the film. Basically, don't touch it. Actually, now that you point it out, even downscaling is a risky thing to do in this case. Probably better to start with a 2k scan, and if we are lucky the 2k effects still exist untouched.

But there's one question, were the effects 2K? I seriously doubt it. At least on the first two films. Hardware of that caliber simply didn't exist back then. We're talking 10 years ago. Remember, in order for it to have been used, it had to have been made already, and we didn't see 2K wide displays or have chips capable of producing those resolutions for some time to come. Remember, we're not talking about even what hardware was available in 2001, we have to go back before that cause that's when the actual production was.

It just seems to me these would be a difficult series to make an "acceptable" blu-ray release of, just due to the source material they've got to work with. Of course the definition of "Acceptable" is open to interpretation.

If the effects are actually of poor enough quality to make a BR production problematic, then would it not be equally problematic to do great restoration on the 35mm portions, and have all the CG "suck" by comparison? Would there be the same people here complaining about the "inconsistency" then?
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