The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring HDTV vs Blu-ray Comparison - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcowboy7 View Post

not this review:

"Now THIS is what I'm Tolkien about!
New Line did quite an impressive job with the high definition transfers for these movies...there is one or two instances of a little murkiness in the first film, but really, any complaint stops there.
By the time I got to the end of the last movie, I was barely even remembering it. These beautiful renditions of CGI and camerawork were meant for the medium of Blu-ray...the levels of contrast are striking, and even in the many darker scenes, picture quality and detail level are stunning."

http://www.dvdmoviecentral.com/Revie...e_rings_bd.htm


I hope that is an early April Fool's joke.
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post #452 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 03:27 PM
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As far as Blu-Ray picture quality reviews are concerned - Frame Grabs or GTFO

"He who asks feels dumb for a few minutes, but he who does not ask remains dumb forever."

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post #453 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:


"Now THIS is what I'm Tolkien about!
New Line did quite an impressive job with the high definition transfers for these movies...there is one or two instances of a little murkiness in the first film, but really, any complaint stops there.
By the time I got to the end of the last movie, I was barely even remembering it. These beautiful renditions of CGI and camerawork were meant for the medium of Blu-ray...the levels of contrast are striking, and even in the many darker scenes, picture quality and detail level are stunning."

And what's he reviewing on, a 42" LCD TV watched from greater than 2 screen-widths away?

so far every reviewer who's confirmed a wide-angle display system has seen the flaws.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #454 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Interesting that the digital copies in his set "expire" on April 4th. Looks like Warner has been sitting sitting on these boxes for some time perhaps.

i think that's just the date you have to activate them, yes? That's also false advertising for people who buy the set after the date isn't it?
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post #455 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 04:33 PM
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I'm curious as to how the infamous LFE in the opening of FotR sounds like on BD. That "wave" from Sauron literally shook my house down on DVD. I had to get a new house. I've never heard LFE that intense from any DVD before or since.

Any comments from owners of the BD set?
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post #456 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I'm curious as to how the infamous LFE in the opening of FotR sounds like on BD. That "wave" from Sauron literally shook my house down on DVD. I had to get a new house. I've never heard LFE that intense from any DVD before or since.

Any comments from owners of the BD set?

I seem to recall hearing that the LFE on the initial, non-EE DVD was reportedly leveled too high. Like you, I had never heard bass like that in a movie, it was impressive but also overpowered the rest of the audio. Note that in the EE, the bass is more restrained and balanced with the rest of the soundtrack.
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post #457 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I'm curious as to how the infamous LFE in the opening of FotR sounds like on BD. That "wave" from Sauron literally shook my house down on DVD. I had to get a new house.

....what? That's either not literally or a subwoofer that ruptured a pipe, or something

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post #458 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

You can rerender old CGI at higher resolutions. The texture detail won't be improved, but you can still rerender at a higher resolution for anything CG.

Toy Story is a great example. I believe it was originally rendered at a resolution lower than 720p back in 1994. Though, they managed to get the film up to 1080p quality no problem for the Blu-ray release.

Toy Story.. All 3D.. it's easy to re-render. LOTR 2D/3D combined it'll probably never be re-rendered.

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post #459 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I'm curious as to how the infamous LFE in the opening of FotR sounds like on BD. That "wave" from Sauron literally shook my house down on DVD. I had to get a new house. I've never heard LFE that intense from any DVD before or since.

Any comments from owners of the BD set?

That sweep was just awesome. I hope its even better in DTS-MA!

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #460 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I'm curious as to how the infamous LFE in the opening of FotR sounds like on BD. That "wave" from Sauron literally shook my house down on DVD. I had to get a new house. I've never heard LFE that intense from any DVD before or since.

Any comments from owners of the BD set?

Did you not experience the throbbing pulse of the ring at the climactic scene in Mt. Doom in ROTK?
I bottomed out two commercial subs when trying to watch that at near-reference level. Fortunately, I've since built two my own, both of which reproduce the scene admirably
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post #461 of 882 Old 03-30-2010, 11:23 PM
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Well, that's it, I ain't gettin' these. Seeing that screencap of Gandalf in Xylon's hdd comparison was enough to deter me. Giving eric's screencaps another once-over finally sealed the deal. Not interested in hearing excuses for why this looks plain bad, it's LOTR we're talking about here. It's not even comparable to the old Star Trek movies in terms of box office. They were all made within the past decade, too. Hearing people say "even the matrix trilogy bd looked better" is just scary. Guess we can blame New Line for this, even though Warner is now ultimately responsible for the release.
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post #462 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklee View Post

Did you not experience the throbbing pulse of the ring at the climactic scene in Mt. Doom in ROTK?
I bottomed out two commercial subs when trying to watch that at near-reference level. Fortunately, I've since built two my own, both of which reproduce the scene admirably

YES! That scene as well. When the ring is in the lava. God that has to absolutely rock in DTS-MA.

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #463 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 06:07 AM
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It's simple, to me, the DVDs look much better, they don't have those horrible
waxy faces, complete failure Warner!
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post #464 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

That sweep was just awesome. I hope its even better in DTS-MA!

Yeah, I put in the non EE DVD's the other night and was shocked how intense the bass was, I forgot about this fact. I mean it sounded like if it was some sort of DTS-HD Master.
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post #465 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEC2 View Post

I seem to recall hearing that the LFE on the initial, non-EE DVD was reportedly leveled too high. Like you, I had never heard bass like that in a movie, it was impressive but also overpowered the rest of the audio. Note that in the EE, the bass is more restrained and balanced with the rest of the soundtrack.

I did not know this, but after watching some of the non EE DVD's the other night, I forgot how intense this bass was on these versions of the films. My last viewings were either the Hidef TV versions or the EE's on DVD.So, this does not surprise me now that you mentioned these DVD's were leveled too high.
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post #466 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 06:32 AM
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I haven't been following the sfx posts that closely, looking for a summary, lol! Got a question for the few having the HDTV version on hand (or anyone who has simply seen that version when it has aired): Are the special effects bad on that version as well, or are you saying its simply an ill-effect for BOTH HD versions, like a result of higer rez revealing what was once masked on dvd? Do they stand out/appear dated in HD period? Meaning even if a better transfer comes along for the EE's, the sfx are still gonna look odd if they don't also tweak them?

All this "sfx redo/re-render" talk concerns me now about watching this on BD. I realize tech is always advancing, but if I don't recall ever having issues with the sfx earlier this decade when viewing this in the theater, the supposed BEST version (in theory), why then should I be bracing myself for how bad they supposedly look now on BD, with its "inferior" PQ? Are some suggesting the DNR is also making them say, too stark?

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post #467 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 07:37 AM
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Nice discussion here about the quality, much appreciated folks and thank you.

Other forums condemn the negative quality discussions and feedback here as watching too closely and scrutinizing every frame. Even the negative professional reviews that are posted on forums get critized.

If that is some folk's feelings and others disagree here which is fine, why I ask then is this thread not a train wreck like others I've seen posted elsewhere?

I hope Netflix is good to me, time will tell I suppose. It will not be till then when I have the opportunity to watch these movies unless Blockbuster stores break up the sets and rent movies individually.
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post #468 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

I hope Netflix is good to me, time will tell I suppose. It will not be till then when I have the opportunity to watch these movies unless Blockbuster stores break up the sets and rent movies individually.

I doubt that they will be good to you. I just cancelled Netflix and I've been a customer for years. They are now not having new releases available for a month or so after they are available for sale. Who needs that?
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post #469 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

The first 2 God of War games were completely rerendered at 720p. I know it's a game, but it's another example.

There is a big difference between re rendering CG at higher resolutions and re rendering at a higher resolution with improved textures. Any CG can easily be rendered at a higher resolution without changing the actual texture detail. We're not asking that they actually improve the textures and such, but instead bump the CG to a higher resolution and scanning the original negatives at 4k.

They scanned the original negatives at 4k for the new master of "Minority Report" (a movie that is heavy on the CG), for the Blu-ray release.


Games have to use lower resolution textures because of memory constraints and bandwidth issues. For film, i would imagine they are using substantially large textures that would also see a benefit from rendering at a higher resolution.
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post #470 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schils View Post

All this "sfx redo/re-render" talk concerns me now about watching this on BD. I realize tech is always advancing, but if I don't recall ever having issues with the sfx earlier this decade when viewing this in the theater, the supposed BEST version (in theory), why then should I be bracing myself for how bad they supposedly look now on BD, with its "inferior" PQ?

This is absolutely correct. The advancements in visual effects technology should make newer effects look "more realistic" than old effects, but if the movie played in the theaters, then the rendering resolution of the effects should already exceed anything BD can reproduce. This shouldn't be an issue.

It's a HUGE issue when talking about television shows like STAR TREK: TNG or BABYLON 5, since those effects were only rendered for standard-definition television broadcast, but this is a feature film that already played the big screen. FELLOWSHIP was not exactly made in the "dark ages". Simply put: it had a film print that looked great in the theaters, it should look great on BD.
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post #471 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 12:59 PM
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For 16 pages now we've been looking at screen grabs from FOTR and a few from TTT. No one has posted ROTK grabs yet. I'd like to see those. If FOTR is awful but TTT is OK and ROTK is good, I might still buy the set and struggle trough FOTR until the EE BDs come out.

So, where can one see ROTK grabs? Does anyone have them?
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post #472 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:09 PM
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I saw ROTK grabs somewhere in this subforum. They do look very good when they're not being scrubbed by DNR.
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post #473 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Connavar View Post

It's simple, to me, the DVDs look much better, they don't have those horrible
waxy faces, complete failure Warner!

Considering the DVDs have serious filtering flaws (per the screenshot from earlier in this thread), this is disingenuous at best.

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post #474 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

This is absolutely correct. The advancements in visual effects technology should make newer effects look "more realistic" than old effects, but if the movie played in the theaters, then the rendering resolution of the effects should already exceed anything BD can reproduce. This shouldn't be an issue.

It's a HUGE issue when talking about television shows like STAR TREK: TNG or BABYLON 5, since those effects were only rendered for standard-definition television broadcast, but this is a feature film that already played the big screen. FELLOWSHIP was not exactly made in the "dark ages". Simply put: it had a film print that looked great in the theaters, it should look great on BD.

Exactly what I was getting at on the previous page

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post #475 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mezman View Post

For 16 pages now we've been looking at screen grabs from FOTR and a few from TTT. No one has posted ROTK grabs yet. I'd like to see those. If FOTR is awful but TTT is OK and ROTK is good, I might still buy the set and struggle trough FOTR until the EE BDs come out.

So, where can one see ROTK grabs? Does anyone have them?

ROTK screencaps were posted in the other LOTR thread.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #476 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Connavar View Post

It's simple, to me, the DVDs look much better, they don't have those horrible
waxy faces, complete failure Warner!

The DVDs are still devoid of detail, for different reasons. And not all the Blu-ray footage looks bad.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #477 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mezman View Post

For 16 pages now we've been looking at screen grabs from FOTR and a few from TTT. No one has posted ROTK grabs yet. I'd like to see those. If FOTR is awful but TTT is OK and ROTK is good, I might still buy the set and struggle trough FOTR until the EE BDs come out.

So, where can one see ROTK grabs? Does anyone have them?

My site took some...I'll see if they are going to get posted soon.
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post #478 of 882 Old 03-31-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

ROTK screencaps were posted in the other LOTR thread.

My review over at htshack.com has ~20 ROTK screencaps, these are the same ones.

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post #479 of 882 Old 04-01-2010, 08:57 AM
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I know its a no no to get other forums involved, but I figured to get all sides of the story, I would venture over to the "other side"

When you can get past the (name removed) stabs at AVS(he still seems to harbour a grudge about the war and AVS) he does seem to be very knowledgeable about the process. I also find Robert Harris very credible regarding these kinds of subjects.

In short, at least from my view is that insiders acknowledge FOTR is messed up, but TT, and ROTK are much better.

No offense to Xylon or Eric.exe, but I wish we had a "dissect the PQ" from the likes of Robert Harris or other insiders involved in this kind of process. Its not that I dont trust the screenshot's, but I do put a lot of credibility in the opinion of the guy who was involved in such restorations such as the Godfather.

I am very neophyte when it comes to the particulars of these kinds of things, but I found the following from the "other site" a very interesting read.


"Making Blu-ray discs is a many step process, but the key steps are film transfer/digital intermediate to create an HD master, compression for audio and video, authoring including menu artwork, and replication. I think people are throwing around the term “master” rather haphazardly and this is leading to some confusion."

"To make it overly simplified, there are two types of “masters”. For one, an HD master, like for instance a Sony HDCAM SR 4:4:4, or something of lesser quality like a 4:2:2 YUV master on HD-D5. Further upstream as a source, if the motion picture had a complete digital intermediate performed or had a complete SCAN (most commonly 2k or 4k) of the film elements then that may be referred to as the digital master (D1) or even film master by some."

"I will say that almost invariably when personnel in the home video depts. of a studio (which make your Blu-rays in-house at places like Sony and WB) throw around the term “master” without further specificity, they mean the HD master or “video master”, so maybe all you folks should also think of the word “master” in that context also…….at least so everyone is on the same nomenclature page and we don’t get into discussions regarding semantics."

"Jeff has already recently mentioned that people at WB have told him that several new “masters” were produced for LOTR until they settled on their final choice(s)……….one would naturally assume that they did new “masters” for all three films, or at least for the oldest film of the bunch, given interim advances in technology over the years. And I have no reason to doubt what Jeff has communicated to us is untrue as he’s got little rats scattered around WB……at least at the technician, managerial level. So, perhaps the question you should be asking Robert, so there is absolutely no misunderstanding, is whether or not WB would do new “digital masters” for the extended editions which would require new 2k or 4k scans."

"Or, perhaps if after viewing and reviewing the LOTR Blu-rays and speaking with folks over at WHV, Robert believes Jeff’s sources were mis-communicating with him in some way about new masters being made last year. For instance, they took an old archival HD master or even a dupe HD master and performed a video *restoration* or remastering of that to make their “new” HD masters. "

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #480 of 882 Old 04-01-2010, 09:59 AM
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When you can get past the snarky stabs at AVS(he still seems to harbour a grudge about the war and AVS) he does seem to be very knowledgeable about the process.

I guess. He told people in the Gladiator thread to get a different hobby or sit farther back from their televisions. Is sitting further away from your television to minimze bad video quality part of the "process"?
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