The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring HDTV vs Blu-ray Comparison - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 09:58 AM
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Watched The Two Towers last night - I will try to screencap what I saw later but the scene where a horse almost tramples Merry & Pippin has some severe disgital noise or compression artifacting going on. We need to screenshot it and take a look.

Verum postulo res.
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post #92 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickpicker View Post

Actually, you're on to something. Have you seen the AreaDVD review of LOTR? They give it 78 to 89% for PQ.

To be fair, the AreaDVD text review doesn't sound as positive as the score indicates. The text review states that the Fellowship image sharpness is rather weak and that edges and detail look too soft even in close ups. Also the grain is reported as not being HD like. I think the text review is good and fair, just the score doesn't match the text review...
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post #93 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Guys,

After looking closely at these comparisons (thank you for posting them!!!) it seems to my eyes that the slightly greater 'detail' of the HDTV version is due to the richer black level which causes the details to pop a bit more. It doesn't look, at least on my LCD monitor, that the very slightly softer detail of the BD capture is HF roll off so much as just less "pop" from a less punchy contrast level.

Anybody else see it like that?

That's what I was thinking too. I was looking at the veins in the eyes in the sixth set. Extra contrast would make them stand out a little more.

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post #94 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 10:13 AM
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Warner softee syndrome strikes again...

I swear unless it's a film from the Golden Age or recent theatrical release you can pretty much bank on Warner catalog transfers looking like @ss.

Come on Warner... HD DVD has been dead for nearly two years and in that time you still continually try to cater to the good enough crowd. Personally I am rather inclined to think that your quality has gotten worse. The LOTR films are not old or from less than ideal film stock like films of the 80s. There is no reason that this crap should be pushed to market. Too me it just looks like a money grab.

Sorry I will wait until the definitive BD version arrives. If you really wanted people to considering purchasing these while waiting for the EEs then maybe you should have delivered a product that makes it look like you actually cared.

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post #95 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

I think the text review is good and fair, just the score doesn't match the text review...

This is a common problem with most reviewers. The rating is always too high. All ratings together should follow a Gaussian distribution with the mean at 50% and not at 80%!
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post #96 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:13 AM
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For the love of god
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post #97 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Like I've stated before, these films are by no means a disaster like Gladiator or most of the classic Trek films. What we do have here is a mediocre, rather lazy product and in the case of these three films most everyone expected WB to put *some* effort in. By all accounts it seems Warner simply grabbed their existing master, ran it through a quickie DNR run and slapped it on some discs. Instead of an awesome set that celebrates a trilogy that's grossed about 3 BILLION dollars they've given us a throw away product to cash in on fans before the real marketing machine kicks in for The Hobbit and the Extended Editions.

I'll still pick the set up eventually, but no way am I blowing $60+ on this. Frankly I'm still stunned that my wife was so disappointed with some of the screenshots she saw. Seriously, she has never *once* cared about screenshots, HD, SD or anything like that.

That's a good summary. I'm pretty picky but I don't think they are a disaster either.

I'd say the DNR affects the image:
FOTR: 10% of the total time
TTT: 20%
ROTK: 5%

If you are a fan, it's pretty easy to ignore and enjoy the films for what they are. The real issue is that FOTR looks amazingly flat and bland most the time. It's mostly only the scenes in Bilbo's house that are smoothed over. I think most people will be very happy how ROTK looks.
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post #98 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:17 AM
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certainly will rent instead of buying. I can't tell much difference between TV and BD versions. disappointing transfer to say the least.
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post #99 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:28 AM
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How's the audio?
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post #100 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:37 AM
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I am inclined to believe that it is a little bit of each, but I have a suspicion that the original post-pro work on it was just AWFUL in many ways. I hope many of the scenes can someday look like the film it was shot on, but it may be that all of the post-pro necessary to merge the cgi stuff with the film stuff just reduced everything and what we end up getting is that nasty low-res low-fidelity look of emulated cinema.

I've been watching FELLOWSHIP this afternoon and I think you nailed it. The look of the movie VARIES greatly, even in this first installment -- yes there are scenes which do look very flat. There are other scenes which seem to have DNR obviously applied. But then there are others where there's a great amount of HD detail and that "pop" you expect...and perhaps unexpectedly, those scenes are often (though not always) ones where there are no obvious instances of CGI or green-screening going on.

The fluctuation in the material makes me think that a lot of these problems have to do with the source material and integrating all of it in post..."emulated cinema" as you put it...and I'm not sure what can be done to correct that given the film's origins.
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post #101 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 11:55 AM
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I've deleted several post slamming other sites, owners of other sites and reviewers. There are also a couple of posts that got caught in the crossfire.

This goes out to all members posting at AVS...

Whether you a agree or disagree with another websites reviews...we are not going to get into name calling other sites, their owners or writers...this will not be tolerated. Future violations will result in infractions.

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There are a couple of members that have taken to slamming other sites and their owners in both of the LOTR threads, you are on a short leash and may find yourself banned from posting in one or both threads if you continue.

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post #102 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 12:07 PM
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My 2 cents on LOTR, I'm disappointed, but I'll still pick this up as I don't own the dvds and will take eric at his word that DNR isn't present in anymore than a portion of the films.

Edit: Original post was in response to a comment that has since been deleted.
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post #103 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
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if it turns out anything like gladiator, skip it kddsruby - it's terrible.

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post #104 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 12:26 PM
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It's not Gladiator. It's not slathered in edge enhancement, and it's not missing picture elements. It does appear to be the exact same masters used for the theatrical DVDs, though, and considering how long they waiting to put these out, that's a huge disappointment. These could have been released at Blu-ray's launch years ago just as easily. I wonder if Jackson's litigation with New Line was a large reason for the delay.

They are upgrades to the DVDs. I will definitely be renting them. I was on the fence about buying them even before all of this because I prefer the EEs. Now I'm even more confused. Maybe I'll pick these up much later when the price has dropped.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #105 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 01:42 PM
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they need to get this **** right, it's LOTR. how come all the other ****** blurays look pristine? what idiotic company didn't review this before it's gone gold? they actually approve of these problems.

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post #106 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 02:56 PM
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Yep ok after having watched them now. It is a major disappointment for sure. Like you said how and who approves these things going out the door. I mean seriously.

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post #107 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 03:09 PM
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i really wonder if they don't count the enthusiasts when approving these problems, maybe we are a small minority but I think we are growing - people I get into projectors seem to start caring about what they're seeing.

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post #108 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

they need to get this **** right, it's LOTR. how come all the other ****** blurays look pristine? what idiotic company didn't review this before it's gone gold? they actually approve of these problems.

Warner tricksed us.
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post #109 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Warner softee syndrome strikes again...

I swear unless it's a film from the Golden Age or recent theatrical release you can pretty much bank on Warner catalog transfers looking like @ss.


Come on Warner... HD DVD has been dead for nearly two years and in that time you still continually try to cater to the good enough crowd. Personally I am rather inclined to think that your quality has gotten worse. The LOTR films are not old or from less than ideal film stock like films of the 80s. There is no reason that this crap should be pushed to market. Too me it just looks like a money grab.

Sorry I will wait until the definitive BD version arrives. If you really wanted people to considering purchasing these while waiting for the EEs then maybe you should have delivered a product that makes it look like you actually cared.

Definitely have to agree.

This will just be further proof (as though any were needed) that Warner is at the very bottom of the list of studios in terms of putting out excellent looking BD's.

How long will this crap continue?
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post #110 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Definitely have to agree.

This will just be further proof (as though any were needed) that Warner is at the very bottom of the list of studios in terms of putting out excellent looking BD's.

How long will this crap continue?

As long as it continues to sell.
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post #111 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 04:43 PM
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Another horrid release. First 'The Dark Knight' and now this. They can't handle some of the biggest movies of all time
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post #112 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:02 PM
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Well what a difference a few years makes. I remember when these movies first started appearing on DVD and they were lauded as some of the best looking DVD's out there. Then along comes the Blu Ray which is obviously better than the DVD and all of a sudden they're the devil's spawn. Go figure
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post #113 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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Well what a difference a few years makes. I remember when these movies first started appearing on DVD and they were lauded as some of the best looking DVD's out there. Then along comes the Blu Ray which is obviously better than the DVD and all of a sudden they're the devil's spawn. Go figure

DVD is not the benchmark here. The best Blu-Ray offers is.
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post #114 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:14 PM
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As long as it continues to sell.

I agree, but how the hell are they going to get the message that despite the fact that these might "sell", that they could have sold more if they got the damn PQ right?

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DVD is not the benchmark here. The best Blu-Ray offers is.

Exactly.
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post #115 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by richeydog View Post

Warner tricksed us.

Trixy ones

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post #116 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:23 PM
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In my opinion, some of Warner's non-classic catalog titles which I have watched lately have been solid. LOTR is disappointing based on these screencaps. I'm hoping the Extended Editions will look better with a newer transfer as they will probably need to give consumers an additional reason to double dip, but we'll see.

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post #117 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

i really wonder if they don't count the enthusiasts when approving these problems, maybe we are a small minority but I think we are growing - people I get into projectors seem to start caring about what they're seeing.

Makes one wonder if anyone with decision making power throws up an image on a projector to see how the BD looks?

PJ did you use a PJ?

It would have been nice to have the BD looking a step or two better than the HDTV version. Yet here we are AGAIN wondering why, why why?

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post #118 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

DVD is not the benchmark here. The best Blu-Ray offers is.

Never said it was. However I just fail to see how X = great but X+1 = Crap
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post #119 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gnj1958 View Post

Never said it was. However I just fail to see how X = great but X+1 = Crap

Because a dvd is 720x480
Even the very best DVD is a very tragic blu-ray.
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post #120 of 882 Old 03-23-2010, 05:54 PM
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http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm

Not everyone was raving about the DVDs. Especially FOTR.
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