Apollo 13 comparison *PIX* - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Can't remember if I did or not but I'll bet its no different than all their other discs.



We could ask the same question for all of their releases. They re-encoded everything as far as I know. Remember The Thing, etc? On other titles even when the transfer was exactly the same they still always made a new encode.

Have you checked Dawn of the Dead? Looking at the specs, it seems to be a re-used VC-1 encode. Land of the Dead might be as well.
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post #302 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by benes View Post

According to the spec threads (which I started btw ) Dawn of the Dead (2004) HDDVD is 18.94Mbps and the Blu-ray is 17.10Mbps. I don't see Blu-ray specs for Land of the Dead but the HDDVD was a 15GB disc.

Love it.. just like DVD - why use the capacity of the format? My "I am Legend" BD uses 12gb for the movie..
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post #303 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

According to the spec threads (which I started btw ) Dawn of the Dead (2004) HDDVD is 18.94Mbps and the Blu-ray is 17.10Mbps.

Yes, but the HD DVD bitrate appears to include the PiP video while the BD doesn't.
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post #304 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

We could ask the same question for all of their releases. They re-encoded everything as far as I know. Remember The Thing, etc? On other titles even when the transfer was exactly the same they still always made a new encode.

Yes, but why didnt they use the same master? The master that the BD uses looks worse then the master HD DVD uses.
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post #305 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 01:03 PM
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Apollo 13 is a bizarre transfer on BD as I watched it fairly recently. Some scenes look awful and are terribly smeared with DNR and EE'd very heavily. Many other scenes look okay, but still a bit too much EE. Contrast seems too high in some scenes, as well. It's a very digital looking transfer and I'm curious why they did what they did to it compared to the HD DVD. I wish Bill Hunt would have asked that question when he met with Universal.

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post #306 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 02:32 PM
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I still strongly suspect that the masters for the newer telecine used on the HD DVD went up in flames in the small town set (aka Hill Valley) fire that destroyed Universal's video vault, or it could at least have caused logistical problems in reinventing their library. So, they simply used the vintage telecine instead.

To me, the video vault burning down is the only reasonable explanation why they would use a vintage telecine when they already had a newer and superior telecine at some point. Then of course, they could simply be raving mad.

This fine wine is really good - it tastes like it was bottled yesterday!
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post #307 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacabeb View Post

I still strongly suspect that the masters for the newer telecine used on the HD DVD went up in flames in the small town set (aka Hill Valley) fire that destroyed Universal's video vault, or it could at least have caused logistical problems in reinventing their library. So, they simply used the vintage telecine instead.

To me, the video vault burning down is the only reasonable explanation why they would use a vintage telecine when they already had a newer and superior telecine at some point. Then of course, they could simply be raving mad.

But if they already had an encode from the better master, why not use it.
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post #308 of 325 Old 08-19-2010, 11:57 PM
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The BD could be the same transfer just zoomed in, contrast boosted, and filtered.
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post #309 of 325 Old 08-20-2010, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

The BD could be the same transfer just zoomed in, contrast boosted, and filtered.

That's my best guess as we saw this happen on several other releases. It was an incompetent attempt to "improve" upon the previous HD version

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post #310 of 325 Old 08-21-2010, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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post #311 of 325 Old 08-21-2010, 03:53 PM
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My HD DVD collection is slowly being whittled down, but this flick is the one reason why I'll never get rid of HD DVD entirely.
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post #312 of 325 Old 08-21-2010, 04:40 PM
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Is there any chance the upcoming Japanese Blu-ray will be a different transfer?
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post #313 of 325 Old 02-11-2011, 10:14 AM
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Following up the conversation here...

It is possible to make a Blu-Ray using the VC-1 encode from the HD-DVD, the DTS-MA lossless audio from the BD, and the subtitles from the BD. You can extract the VC-1 video stream from the HD-DVD with eac3to which will remove the pulldown flags and give you a 1080p24 stream (TSmuxer doesn't do it correctly). You can demux the audio and subtitles from the BD with a variety of tools (like TSmuxer or eac3to). Then use TSmuxer to combine them all back together into a movie only BD. You will need to apply a negative delay the audio of about 400ms or the audio and video will be out of sync in the resulting output.

If you want to keep all the special features, extra audio streams, etc..., and the menu of the BD intact that's probably possible also, but I didn't attempt that.
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post #314 of 325 Old 02-11-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz! View Post

Of course you can't compare the 2 video streams frame by frame, so it's fingers crossed when mixing one soundtrack with another video track.

Actually you can, if you want to go to the effort of re-encoding both video streams to a lower resolution and performing a "stackvertical" comparison in Virtualdub with Avisynth.

It may not show you what you want to hear, though: a frame by frame comparison between the T1 BD and the T1 laserdisc showed about 15 frame discrepancy locations (yes, I know this is not a BD/HD-DVD comparison).

The introduction of Cinavia could affect future attempts to merge the better video of some HD-DVD titles with the better audio of a BD equivalent (for those titles not yet released on BD).
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post #315 of 325 Old 02-12-2011, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Actually you can, if you want to go to the effort of re-encoding both video streams to a lower resolution and performing a "stackvertical" comparison in Virtualdub with Avisynth.

It may not show you what you want to hear, though: a frame by frame comparison between the T1 BD and the T1 laserdisc showed about 15 frame discrepancy locations (yes, I know this is not a BD/HD-DVD comparison).

That's pretty nifty!.. I wonder how many times the audio/video of one release actually matches another.
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post #316 of 325 Old 02-12-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz! View Post

That's pretty nifty!.. I wonder how many times the audio/video of one release actually matches another.

Apollo 13 isn't close. The first non black frame is frame 32 for the BD and frame 50 for the HD-DVD.


Delta: 18 frames

The Universal intro at the beginning is different between the two. There's a shift of 3 frames from the HD-DVD to keep them in sync.


Delta: 15 frames

The BD has a longer Universal intro which requires a 26 frame adjustment to keep them in sync.


Delta: -11 frames

For some reason the "A Ron Howard Film" stays 2 frames longer on the HD, with one less frame of black before the Apollo 1 footage starts so a 1 frame adjustment is necessary.


Delta -10 frames

Somewhere about 2/3rd the way through the movie the delta moves to -11 frames. When the credits start it moves to -12 frames.
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post #317 of 325 Old 02-12-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Apollo 13 isn't close. The first non black frame is frame 32 for the BD and frame 50 for the HD-DVD.

Nice comparison: that's what I'm talking about.

It's not a complete disaster though as it would be possible to convert both soundtracks to LPCM and edit the BD to match the HD-DVD (perhaps adding frames of audio from the HD-DVD if they are missing from the BD).

Probably too much effort and easier to simply use the HD-DVD audio converted to LPCM.

It will probably be rare to find an HD-DVD that exactly frame matches its corresponding BD (although I think "The Thing" is very close).
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post #318 of 325 Old 02-12-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Nice comparison: that's what I'm talking about.

It's not a complete disaster though as it would be possible to convert both soundtracks to LPCM and edit the BD to match the HD-DVD (perhaps adding frames of audio from the HD-DVD if they are missing from the BD).

Probably too much effort and easier to simply use the HD-DVD audio converted to LPCM.

Unfortunately this makes the movie a bit too big to fit onto a single layer BD-R. I've also noticed a bit of static in the surrounds in the HD DVD DD+ track, as well as some other DD+ tracks. Not sure what's causing it but I haven't heard anything similar in any lossless codecs.


Quote:


It will probably be rare to find an HD-DVD that exactly frame matches its corresponding BD (although I think "The Thing" is very close).

Yeah, that's one title where I've already remuxed the HD DVD video with the BD audio, and I didn't have to do any audio delay and didn't notice a single instance where the audio was out of sync. Pretty sure they're the exact same master, except the BD was DNR'd.
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post #319 of 325 Old 02-12-2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

It's not a complete disaster though as it would be possible to convert both soundtracks to LPCM and edit the BD to match the HD-DVD (perhaps adding frames of audio from the HD-DVD if they are missing from the BD).

It's not really a disaster. Apply a -431ms delay to the audio from the BD don't worry about it. No one will know the audio doesn't quite line up in the opening Universal sequence or in the credits. The audio during the movie is within a single frame the whole time.
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post #320 of 325 Old 02-13-2011, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

No one will know the audio doesn't quite line up in the opening Universal sequence or in the credits.

I'll know.
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post #321 of 325 Old 02-17-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

I'll know.

Well, then you're out of luck I guess unless you can get your hands on a TrueHD or DTS-MA encoder. In which case you could edit the audio to line up with the HD-DVD's video track and recompress the audio back down to make it fit on a BD-25.

Alternatively you could decode the lossless audio to PCM, edit it to maintain perfect audio sync, and burn it to a BD-50.
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post #322 of 325 Old 02-18-2011, 11:12 AM
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DTS-HD MA encoder is easy to acquire. You need a Mac for the Dolby Encoder Suite.
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post #323 of 325 Old 02-18-2011, 02:25 PM
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The question to ask is just what in the world is going on over at Universal. The Hill Valley fire that hit the video vault really is seeming like the most probable explanation, especially when you consider Out of Africa.
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post #324 of 325 Old 02-18-2011, 03:09 PM
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DTS-HD MA encoder is easy to acquire. You need a Mac for the Dolby Encoder Suite.

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information.
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post #325 of 325 Old 02-18-2011, 03:15 PM
 
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DTS-HD MA encoder is easy to acquire. You need a Mac for the Dolby Encoder Suite.
Bloody easy to use too!
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