Star Wars on BD Confirmed by Lucas for Fall 2011 - Pre Release Discussion - Page 46 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1351 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 06:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
srw1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

The "trade federation" looked to be super wealthy. It makes no sense for them to stop doing what made them so wealthy ("trading") and start making war.

Appearances can be deceiving. Lots of folks these days have an outward look of wealth, but are in hock up to their eyeballs. (Hmmm, that could also apply to some countries right now.) Even so, one could surmise that the reward they've been promised must have been rather grand to undertake such a risky task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

So what? How does that make them "bad guys", any more than Lucas making a pile of money? Why should we care that they want to make money?

You must have missed my other points. Their greed allows them to be used as pawns in a political struggle. The actions they undertake (such as invading another planet, trying to killing Jedi and killing their crew) show them to be the "bad guys" you're looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Frowned upon by who?

Whatever group that they're breaking away from. As mentioned earlier, a primary concern is that it could lead to weakness and chaos. To your earlier point, if The Federation is truly that wealthy, it would also lead to a large loss in tax revenue, which could hurt the Republic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Why should we care that the Republic doesn't like it, any more than, say, the USSR or Roman or British Empires "frowned" on acts of independence?

We may not care about the separation itself. We may care about the invasion. We should care about the ascendancy of Palpatine to the role of Emperor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Because there's nothing for the audience to care about. Again, this is very different from the "heroic freedom fighters against the evil Empire" scenario of the OT. If the Republic really is that corrupt and decayed, why is separation from it something people should root against?

There are ways to repair a republic from the inside, which could avoid the resultant problems. Again, both sides of the conflict are being lead by the same person. The true "bad guys" are the Sith, who manipulate the others (on both sides of the conflict) into war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Reasons Lucas never bothers to give.

The "badness" of separation I was addressing was generic in nature, not directed toward the movie. The reasons specific to the movie are mentioned above in this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

Your description describes a collection of governments forming armed forces. Is the "trade federation" a government?

It's not my description, I linked a brief summary from Encyclopedia Britannica that fit your conditions.

The Hanseatic League existed for centuries. During that time, they were a organization of trade guilds, towns, and cities. They had their own military, which occasionally was used to wage war, but mostly existed as a defensive force.

I'm not sure why you're asking if the Trade Federation is a government. By definition a federation is an entity formed of other entities. It may be an actual government or just an association, but there are likely rules and/or laws involved to form a leadership structure.

A collection of governments could form a federation. A lot of us here live in one.

Scott

srw1000 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1352 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 06:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
srw1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,586
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Here's my take on the Trade Federation/Separatist thing. . .

Ich liebe Star Wars!

Geoff, I want to thank yo for posting this. It's a great example of how Star Wars fans once looked at the movies. Instead of superficially picking apart the films, and finding flaws that don't exist, you've taken an active role and filled in the missing information yourself. Is your answer the correct one? Could be, but we don't know. The point is that it's a plausible answer, and fits well within the story. It works.

That kind of creativity used to be a big part of what Star Wars fandom was about. We saw lots of nuggets of information plugged in the movies, and used our imaginations to extrapolate backstories for ourselves. We were happy to do so, and it helped us pass the time while waiting for the next movie to come out.

Those times have passed for some.

Scott

srw1000 is offline  
post #1353 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 07:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
skibum5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Ah, but that's why it's called the Phantom Menace*. There isn't a big bad for the audience to boo and hiss at, and deliberately so. Lucas wanted to show how evil took over the galaxy starting with seemingly innocuous circumstances. Does this hurt the prequels? Of course it does. There should've been a decent villain propelling the story, and not just Palpatine pulling the strings while his hapless apprentices get killed off. But I think that Lucas didn't want to dilute the power of Vader any further. He already took the brave/stupid step of deconstructing this legendary movie villain - which began with Vader's unmasking in Jedi - so if Lucas comes up with a prequel baddie that out-Vaders Vader he's basically kneecapping the OT. (On a much simpler level, this is why we never see the hyperspace 'starlines' in the prequels.) I'm not saying that this excuses poor filmmaking, but for better or worse it's by design.


I think palpatine out-Vaders Vader. I agree he couldn't make anyone else do so though. That would just spoil everything.

(What was tricky is that he couldn't make the space battle at the end of TPM outdo the ANH or ROTJ space battles, he had to make it a bit weaker, less dramatic, less interesting. He was stuck having to put in a battle without the full impact he could've otherwise.)

I thought the whole phantom menace scheming of Palpatine a most interesting (albeit in the largest sense expected, since anyone who had ever read so much as the #4 novelization already knew it, in the most general sense) way to propel things along.

It's usually a Palpatine type that results in the most horror and troubles to many.
skibum5000 is offline  
post #1354 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Member
 
DocCyclops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Geoff, I want to thank yo for posting this. It's a great example of how Star Wars fans once looked at the movies. Instead of superficially picking apart the films, and finding flaws that don't exist, you've taken an active role and filled in the missing information yourself. Is your answer the correct one? Could be, but we don't know. The point is that it's a plausible answer, and fits well within the story. It works.

That kind of creativity used to be a big part of what Star Wars fandom was about. We saw lots of nuggets of information plugged in the movies, and used our imaginations to extrapolate backstories for ourselves. We were happy to do so, and it helped us pass the time while waiting for the next movie to come out.

Those times have passed for some.

Scott

So we have to put more effort into enjoying the films than George Lucas put into making them?

I think even if you enjoy TPM, you have to admit it has flaws. I enjoy plenty of flawed movies. Heck, the original trilogy has its share of flaws, but I don't pretend they don't exist because there's a big Star Wars at the front of the movie.
DocCyclops is offline  
post #1355 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 09:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
FendersRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northwest
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
+1 to above.

It's fine if you like and feel the need to defend trash such as TPM or AOTC, but don't pretend that they are great or even "good" movies. Not pointing fingers, but anyone who defends them as much as some people are doing here (you know who you are ) is a clear indication that people will like stuff just because of the name "Star Wars" on the cover IMO. When audiences are still wondering by the end of Episode I & II who/whom/what they should be caring/not caring about and why, then that's just an indication of huge basic filmmaking problems. Additionally, add on the additional problem of having wooden, stiff, boring, and inconsistent characters with lacking arcs in Episode I and II and your film is basically screwed. You then start wondering as an audience member, "whats the point of caring about any of this when there is no one to care about, yet also no reason to care?". Add on to that the nonsensical """"""""plot"""""""""" and story, and it's goes even further down the chute. It isn't that "people don't get it" or that "the story/plot about the senate/seperationalists/trade-disputes/taxation isn't important", it's the problem of simply having no one or simply nothing to care/not care about because the basic story telling principles are non-existant.

Now, I've sat down and watched all of these, constantly loaded with caffeine, an open mind, no expectations, and a notepad for taking notes about any events. The only reason I even sat through Episode I and II is just so that I would have a valid opinion and to actually explore about why they are considered bad movies. It's quite easy to understand, and you don't need to have very much intelligence to understand why. If I didn't watch these movies pretending to be a reviewer, I think I may would have turned off Episode I, and probably Episode II as well.

I'll defend Episode III with you prequel-nuts because one can explain why it's actually a good movie with simple, logical, and somewhat empirical filmmaking reasons, but I certainly will smash Episode II and especially Episode I every chance I get (well not every chance, but I'm trying to post on this thread less often).
FendersRule is offline  
post #1356 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 10:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Partyslammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 34
LOL! This threads gonna be 500 pages long before the Blu-rays even street.
Partyslammer is offline  
post #1357 of 6227 Old 08-30-2010, 10:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CAVX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 8,378
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

LOL! This threads gonna be 500 pages long before the Blu-rays even street.

Don't worry. If this tread doesn't get closed down due to someone having an upset about defending or apologizing for the prequels first, I am sure by the time the BDs arrive there will be at least 2 others running plus as "official Star Wars BD" thread and maybe even a comparison Pix thread between the DVD and BD

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
CAVX is offline  
post #1358 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jwebb1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 8,338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

That must have been the worst suggestion I have ever read.

But a lightsaber with "Bad Mother F***er" etched onto the hilt? Would that not be cool?

Seriously, I thought I had read somewhere that the ILM prop dept presented Sam Jackson with a Mace Windu saber hilt with those exact (uncensored)words etched onto it around the time he had wrapped his scenes for SITH.

Money does not buy happiness. It can, however, buy you a giant boat that you can pull up alongside happiness. - David Lee Roth

jwebb1970 is offline  
post #1359 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 11:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
bviss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 20
[quote=FendersRule;19116051]QUOTE]

Just reading your reviews made me put in the Ep III soundtrack. For some of us born in a certain era these movies simply took over our minds. Yes, I'm willing to agree with alot of the complaints about the prequels, stilted acting and the disappointment with TPM especially. But there is no way to be a big original star wars fan and not get chills from the final light saber battle in TPM or visualizing a battle with a hundred or so jedi's. And ROTS was a masterpiece even though there is still some stilted acting and a few flaws. I've watched movies that are supposed to be cinematic works of art that I think are horrible. Every movie has its flaws and detractors. The expectations for TPM especially were too high. I'm still mad mine weren't met. But I'm still happy it was made. I can sit through it now more easily than the goofy scene in Jabba's palace or the ewok silliness. The biggest problem for me is GL should have had help with the writing and directing by someone like JJ Abrams or Peter Jackson to integrate these movies into modern times.
The genious of the prequels is there is just no arguing the logic due to the incredible world Lucas has created. For instance, someone said Yoda shouldn't use the light saber so much because he is so into "size doesn't matter" and the spirituality of it all, but maybe he developed that outlook by ESB because of his past in the prequels. What was the Federation's motivation for cutting a deal with Palpatine? Maybe he just used the mind trick on the dumbasses to force them to go along. It's pointless to try to argue these points. They can all be reasoned out. I love the example of the politics in ANH being allowed without being fully explained just like in TPM. Would I edit out the stupid gungans? Sure. Would I hire a different kid for anakin and someone other than Hayden? Hell yes. (But I did like Hayden better in ROTS).
But I also thought the screen was just too busy at the end of ROTJ when I first saw it. It grew on me later though.
If I could choose only one movie to ever have been made, it would be Star Wars. But then I would always wish they had continued Luke's development as a jedi (and maybe flesh out those clone wars and his father's downfall too). Wink.


To the guy arguing about Jango's species, you don't have a point at all. They don't say "2 american jedi's are here for negotiations". They say 2 jedi's are here. He's called a bounty hunter because that is what he is. That's what matters to the plot when they tell Obi Wan who he is, not that he is a mandalorian. His uniform is clean and shiny because he lives in the time of the republic. Boba's is dirty and worn because he lives during the empire and isn't a member of the empire. Everyone else's is dirty and worn too unless they are on the empire's payroll.
bviss is offline  
post #1360 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 12:25 PM
Senior Member
 
marcx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You are all looking too hard at the motives of the trade federation--their motives are that Palpatine has coerced them into doing whatever he wants. The same goes of the separatists, they are a puppet movement of Palpatine's paving the way for his rise to power. all of that is just his way of distracting the populace, keeping them bogged and divided..this sets up their need for an army, and eventually his declaration of an empire which gives him full control of that army. The whole story is made up of his re his machinations....

My Basement Home Theater

Now proud owner of an hd-a35 and a
panasonic blu ray 10a and BD35 -format neutral was fun while it lasted :)

My DVD/HD-DVD/Blu Collection
marcx is offline  
post #1361 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 12:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Geoff, I want to thank yo for posting this. It's a great example of how Star Wars fans once looked at the movies. Instead of superficially picking apart the films, and finding flaws that don't exist, you've taken an active role and filled in the missing information yourself. Is your answer the correct one? Could be, but we don't know. The point is that it's a plausible answer, and fits well within the story. It works.

That kind of creativity used to be a big part of what Star Wars fandom was about. We saw lots of nuggets of information plugged in the movies, and used our imaginations to extrapolate backstories for ourselves. We were happy to do so, and it helped us pass the time while waiting for the next movie to come out.

Those times have passed for some.

Scott

My thanks to you and Peter for the kind words, and my thanks to everyone else for letting me get my geek on.

What I will say is that I didn't fill in the gaps with EU material, nor has it come directly from my fevered imagination. It's just simple leaps of logic informed entirely by what is presented to us in the movies. Hell, most of the groundwork for the Trade Federation & what they do is laid out in the opening crawl of Phantom Menace. Two minutes later they blow up a Republic cruiser and try to kill two Jedi before illegally invading a defenceless planet! And yet people are asking - apparently with all sincerity - as to why they are considered to be "bad". What I'd give for a LOL smilie right about now.
Geoff D is offline  
post #1362 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 01:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
FendersRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northwest
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by bviss View Post

But there is no way to be a big original star wars fan and not get chills from the final light saber battle in TPM or visualizing a battle with a hundred or so jedi's.

I enjoyed your heartfelt post, but this is exactly where I have a problem with. Nothing in Episode I or II gave me chills of any type (Episode III did in a few spots for reasons I've already discussed and I can discuss a little further upon request).

Let me get something straight- Darth Maul sucks, and he is quite a terrible villain. Sure, when the audience is comprised of little kids, they are going to think he looks cool (which is the point so that he can sell toys for Lucas), but there's nothing remotely cool or interesting about his character--at all. How/why are we suppose to care about him? For all we know, he is just a bad Sith dude that really only comes into play at the very end for cookie cutter filmmaking reasons. Actually, he is a perfect example of a cookie-cutter stock villain that is only used to sell toys to children. This all leads to an anti-climatic battle at the end of TPM. Well, everything is anti-climatic about that movie. Keep reading:

I'd also like to bring up a point about the light sabers. Light saber battles are not cool because they are flashy and colorful. They are cool because of the character internalization that they support. This is why the light saber battle at the end of TPM is anti-climatic (at this point, no one cares about Quigon-gin, Obi1, or Darth Maul other that he looks kinda scary and he's only a pawn working for someone else), and the handful of Jedis fighting at the end of AOTC is just as boring. When we see people fight, what's interesting is the actual internal struggles and fights within the characters and not the fight itself. This is why the rigid and short fight between Ob1 and Vader in ANH is better than ANY of the fighting that TPM or AOTC has to offer.

Let's talk about John Carpenter's They Live. This movie has probably the best fight scene in cinematic history. Not only is the 4.5 minute fight scene absolutely ridiculous, well done, and fun to watch, but what is really happening is that it's symbolic and has meaning for both characters. Nada is persistently fighting to try to awaken others (up to that point, we WANT someone to put the damn glasses on), and Frank is being extremely resilient to any new idea or concept because he just wants to continue to live ignorantly just so that he can keep getting paid (which is symbolic of most people). It's a perfect example of not only having the substance, but also deep, symbolic internalizations of the characters at the same time. THIS defines a fight scene. Every major fight scene in the SW sequels can be explained the same way as well.

This is one of the reasons why Episode III is great-- we see Anakin and Obi1 fight, which is one of the only meaningful fights in the entire prequel trilogy. We know exactly (up to that point) what is going on inside of the character of Anakin (the person I was rooting for) and Ob1. The flashy light saber stuff really just supported the internalization of the characters (which as mentioned, is the most important part of a fight scene) and made it a good fight scene and one that I actually enjoyed and said to myself "it's about time I felt something during a fight scene". Even the fight scene between Yoda and Palpatine was decent enough and more genuine than anything in Episode I or II.
FendersRule is offline  
post #1363 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:25 PM
Member
 
Chad R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

I'd also like to bring up a point about the light sabers. Light saber battles are not cool because they are flashy and colorful. They are cool because of the character internalization that they support. This is why the light saber battle at the end of TPM is anti-climatic (at this point, no one cares about Quigon-gin, Obi1, or Darth Maul other that he looks kinda scary and he's only a pawn working for someone else), and the handful of Jedis fighting at the end of AOTC is just as boring. When we see people fight, what's interesting is the actual internal struggles and fights within the characters and not the fight itself. This is why the rigid and short fight between Ob1 and Vader in ANH is better than ANY of the fighting that TPM or AOTC has to offer.

So, what was the internal struggle when Han, Chewie and Luke storm the detention block? Or when the Empire attacks the station on Hoth? Sometimes all that's at stake in an action scene is whether the characters escape or not. Or if their lives are in danger.

Now, if you want to say that you didn't care about Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan, I'd respect that a lot more than saying that a lightsaber duel has to have some "internalization" to be viscerally exciting. It doesn't.
Chad R is offline  
post #1364 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:34 PM
Member
 
a_day_without_me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Let me get something straight- Darth Maul sucks, and he is quite a terrible villain. Sure, when the audience is comprised of little kids, they are going to think he looks cool (which is the point so that he can sell toys for Lucas), but there's nothing remotely cool or interesting about his character--at all. How/why are we suppose to care about him? For all we know, he is just a bad Sith dude that really only comes into play at the very end for cookie cutter filmmaking reasons. Actually, he is a perfect example of a cookie-cutter stock villain that is only used to sell toys to children. This all leads to an anti-climatic battle at the end of TPM. Well, everything is anti-climatic about that movie. Keep reading:

I agree that Darth Maul was awful. Casting a martial artist instead of an actor may have contributed to that? His character's only purpose is for creating an elaborate closing fight scene, not to be an valuable charater in the film. I have had the same thoughts about him, that here is nothing interesting about Darth Maul except the double lightsaber. His 'evilness' is based purely on the fact that his horns and red face are a hollywood Satan look-alike, which means his character presents no evil, just that he happens to look like another being who happens to be evil. LOL

__a day without me_
a_day_without_me is offline  
post #1365 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
42041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 54
sheesh, i'm starting to think Lucas purposefully made TPM lousy so that the fanboys blow the original films up to mythic proportions, like it's some kind of great work of art or monumental human achievement they are just goofy fun and really don't merit this much analysis
42041 is offline  
post #1366 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
skibum5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

+1 to above.

It's fine if you like and feel the need to defend trash such as TPM or AOTC, but don't pretend that they are great or even "good" movies. Not pointing fingers, but anyone who defends them as much as some people are doing here (you know who you are ) is a clear indication that people will like stuff just because of the name "Star Wars" on the cover IMO. When audiences are still wondering by the end of Episode I & II who/whom/what they should be caring/not caring about and why, then that's just an indication of huge basic filmmaking problems. Additionally, add on the additional problem of having wooden, stiff, boring, and inconsistent characters with lacking arcs in Episode I and II and your film is basically screwed. You then start wondering as an audience member, "whats the point of caring about any of this when there is no one to care about, yet also no reason to care?". Add on to that the nonsensical """"""""plot"""""""""" and story, and it's goes even further down the chute. It isn't that "people don't get it" or that "the story/plot about the senate/seperationalists/trade-disputes/taxation isn't important", it's the problem of simply having no one or simply nothing to care/not care about because the basic story telling principles are non-existant.


and yet some people did follow along with it and did find it interesting....
and did care....

what were the character inconsistencies?

and who said a movie has to be 2 hours? why not 6?
skibum5000 is offline  
post #1367 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:51 PM
 
Steeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vegas
Posts: 3,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad R View Post

So, what was the internal struggle when Han, Chewie and Luke storm the detention block? Or when the Empire attacks the station on Hoth? Sometimes all that's at stake in an action scene is whether the characters escape or not. Or if their lives are in danger.

Did you miss the part where he was specifically talking about light saber battles? It was right there in the part you quoted.
Steeb is offline  
post #1368 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
skibum5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 26
getting slightly back to the upcoming discs themselves

for all the talk about how digital presentations lose so much and 4K, even 8K negatives, the thing is they don't project the negatives and most people just see general release prints that get churned out and I doubt that they actually have even half of 4K resolution. I bet even a scope print is likely only something like what 1100vertical would be and after projection maybe more like 950, at best. I wonder if lots of people don't even see more like 650v at many theaters with many prints.

anyway just a wild rambling only semi-educated guess


I didn't look at an actual 35mm scope print or even a scope trailer so granted I was looking at the worst of the worst, a flat trailer which they probably didn't take a ton of care in producing and the flat print gave it a lot less room to store information on top of that (also it was a slightly moldy old reel someone was getting rid of and I got to scan a couple first) but I was stunned at how little detail it held. I scanned a couple frames at a true, realistic 3800dpi or so and I could swear that it didn't seem to hold all that much more detail than DVD, more but not even close to what a top blu-ray presents. It did have quite a different character than DVD and most blu-rays though. (although not doing a wet scan meant I did emphasize the grain a bit, although the scanner did have diffused lighting which helped a bit).
skibum5000 is offline  
post #1369 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
FendersRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northwest
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

and yet some people did follow along with it and did find it interesting....
and did care....

Good for them, and I seriously mean that. However, most of them are probably comprised of 10 year old kids and bleeding heart fanbois that will rave about anything with "Star Wars" in the title. Another group of them are probably parents that will like anything in which their kids lust over (and probably resembles some posters here). btw, I think I'm going to rent the eWok adventures since I've been getting a recommendation for that one. What do you guys know about this movie?

Quote:


what were the character inconsistencies?

I'll only list a few due to time circumstances:

Episode I:

* Quigon-Gin and his notorious lying found all throughout Episode I. Do Jedis really just go around and lie? This is not a good thing for a Jedi to do (inconstant to their teachings) and probably not a good thing to teach kids. RedLetter discusses this in his reviews right off the bat. In-fact, I'll go out on a limb here-- Quigon-Gin is the worst protagonist in the entire Star Wars saga.

* It sure felt a little premature when Padme was showing intimate affection to Anakin when they've only known each other for a VERY short period of time. I understand why this was done (to help account for the attraction later found in Episode II) but it's just inconsistent the way it was handled here. Seeing an extremely boring character that never changes facial expressions start to smile and adore a little kid spontaneously doesn't look consistent to me.

* Quigon-Gin and Obi-1 should have been combined into Obi-1 (full agreement with RedLetter here).


Episode II:

* Why did Ob-1 jump out of the window after the spy droid and not Anakin? This is VERY inconsistent to Ob-1's teachings to Anakin- "to stay calm and think". It makes NO sense for Ob-1 to jump in a split second out of a very high building when it should have been Anakin doing this since (a) Anakin is the one attracted to the Padme, not Ob-1, (b) Anakin is the one who should be doing the brisk and sudden thoughtless action stuff when Ob-1 should be there to "clean up the mess" after him, and (c) it goes against what OB1 has been saying to Anakin the entire time.

* Yoda jumping around and his "overuse" of the light saber despite his teachings found in ESB about physical size limitations and how the force can be used to overcome them.

Quote:


and who said a movie has to be 2 hours? why not 6?

As in, you think Episodes I - III should be seen as one movie, and not individually? I disagree whole heartily for many reasons. First, American viewers tend to have terrible attention spans (well, probably most viewers actually). Secondly, there's a psychological reason why movies should be around 90 minutes and length on average due to how we can handle and store information--there's a science behind that. Third, the sequels didn't need to be watched all at once, so why should the prequels? ANH ends itself without needing anything after it. ESB has a slight "cliffhanger" ending even though all the problems the characters were facing ended as it still provided character arcs, meaningful scenes (I shouldn't have to explain why ESB is awesome, so I'll stop here). ROTJ closes it all off. In another words, even if movies are sequels, they still should follow basic filmmaking principles and should be comprised of full movies within themselves. Also, if you watch the prequels all in one sitting, they would be about 7 hours, not 6

Imagine if Friday the 13th 1-4 went like this:

Friday the 13th Part 1: Characters travel to camp site. Characters are beginning to set themselves up.

Friday the 13th Part 2: Characters are now fully developed.

Friday the 13th Part 3: Characters begin to get killed.

Friday the 13th Part 4: The last character left defeats the antagonist.

Who would seriously watch that? Each movie in a sequel should comprise of a...movie. The story should be translucent throughout the series and follow suite. This is a very basic example, so don't think too much about Friday the 13th George Lucas wrote this script and storyboard in very little time, and as far as I know, he was the only person who did this. You can't simply write a quality movie in a single draft in a period of 2 weeks without any collaboration or story telling skills--it shows.

* Sorry for my misspellings of the Star Wars character names. I am not much of a fanboi to know the exact spellings
FendersRule is offline  
post #1370 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 03:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
FendersRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northwest
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Do yall think that Lucas is going to redo the revisions made in the OT for the upcoming boxset (redoing the CGI, "fixing" prior revisions?)?
FendersRule is offline  
post #1371 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

Episode II:

* Why did Ob-1 jump out of the window after the spy droid and not Anakin? This is VERY inconsistent to Ob-1's teachings to Anakin- "to stay calm and think". It makes NO sense for Ob-1 to jump in a split second out of a very high building when it should have been Anakin doing this since (a) Anakin is the one attracted to the Padme, not Ob-1, (b) Anakin is the one who should be doing the brisk and sudden thoughtless action stuff when Ob-1 should be there to "clean up the mess" after him, and (c) it goes against what OB1 has been saying to Anakin the entire time.

Dude, why aren't people allowed to act out of character in a Star Wars prequel? Vader stops Boba Fett from shooting Chewie in Empire and our minds start racing as to 'why?', but if a prequel character acts out of turn people don't seem capable of thinking outside of the box.

Cast your mind back to Empire. Again. Yoda (to Luke): "You are reckless." Obi-Wan: "So was I, if you remember". Yes, Obi-Wan keeps preaching to Anakin about using his head and not his heart, but him flying out of the window is there to demonstrate that sometimes he's just as impulsive and reckless as his padawan. Obi-Wan is setting a bad example for Anakin, and he's got the cheek to utter "I hate it when he does that" when Anakin jumps from the speeder moments later. It's setting up the fact that Anakin has been poorly trained, which will of course lead to his ultimate betrayal.
Geoff D is offline  
post #1372 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sharkcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,281
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Dude, why aren't people allowed to act out of character in a Star Wars prequel? Vader stops Boba Fett from shooting Chewie in Empire and our minds start racing as to 'why?', but if a prequel character acts out of turn people don't seem capable of thinking outside of the box.

Cast your mind back to Empire. Again. Yoda (to Luke): "You are reckless." Obi-Wan: "So was I, if you remember". Yes, Obi-Wan keeps preaching to Anakin about using his head and not his heart, but him flying out of the window is there to demonstrate that sometimes he's just as impulsive and reckless as his padawan. Obi-Wan is setting a bad example for Anakin, and he's got the cheek to utter "I hate it when he does that" when Anakin jumps from the speeder moments later. It's setting up the fact that Anakin has been poorly trained, which will of course lead to his ultimate betrayal.

Yup.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
sharkcohen is offline  
post #1373 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
FendersRule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northwest
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
All sounds fine and dandy except:

Obi-Wan's "recklessness" should have taken place in Episode I and not Episode II when he WASN'T in charge of training another Jedi. Why would the Jedi counsel allow Obi-Wan to train if he was reckless? Exactly, they wouldn't as we have learned that they are fairly strict (just look at how they dealt with Anakin for example).

Instead of having a solid story about Obi-Wan in Episode I showing his training and recklessness for the reason of tying in that little tidbit from Empire, we have a '''''''story''''''' about Qui-gon, a kid Anakin, Jar Jar Binks, and finally with an extremely boring, out-of-the-spotlight Obi-Wan who doesn't appear to be reckless at all when he should have been at THAT time.

I understand your point, but I believe my point still stands and makes much more sense. It doesn't make any sense in that this was the only case in the entire prequel trilogy where Obi-Wan did a big time reckless act completely at the wrong time, in the wrong Episode, and not having any logical reason for doing so given the premise of the """"""""story"""""""""". Besides, what Yoda could have been talking about in ESB could have taken place much before Episode I and using what Yoda said in ESB to describe his stupid action in Episode II is illogical, being that Obi-Wan had his head on pretty damn straight in Episode II, and even in Episode I for the little time we see of him. It was simply out of place for all the reasons mentioned.

I can't believe I'm holding the fort here. I'm not even a huge SW fan, even though I grew up on them and watched ANH about 100 times when I was 10. I'm simply a Padawan here, I'm sure the Jedi experts may have something to say, or they just may be in full agreement

Speaking of that point- They spent all that energy dive bombing out of the window and the ships to chase the droid. When the bounty hunter shot the shapeshifter, they simply let him fly off without continuing to pursue him? How do you guys explain that? I mean, you can only travel so damn far with a jetpack. Being that we have seen Jedi fly out of buildings and land on cars, we should be able to see them follow the bounty hunter. But no, they give up...hmmm. You know, I don't even think they even acknowledged his presence.
FendersRule is offline  
post #1374 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 06:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
colombianlove41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gotham, DE
Posts: 1,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

sheesh, i'm starting to think Lucas purposefully made TPM lousy so that the fanboys blow the original films up to mythic proportions, like it's some kind of great work of art or monumental human achievement they are just goofy fun and really don't merit this much analysis

Yeah, in hindsight, darth maul would've been better if he had more depth.

"How long were you in Mexico?"
" uh...a week, no, no, a day..."
"Well, which is it a week or a day?
"uh...a weekday?"
colombianlove41 is offline  
post #1375 of 6227 Old 08-31-2010, 08:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CAVX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 8,378
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by bviss View Post

To the guy arguing about Jango's species, you don't have a point at all. They don't say "2 american jedi's are here for negotiations". They say 2 jedi's are here. He's called a bounty hunter because that is what he is. That's what matters to the plot when they tell Obi Wan who he is, not that he is a mandalorian. His uniform is clean and shiny because he lives in the time of the republic. Boba's is dirty and worn because he lives during the empire and isn't a member of the empire. Everyone else's is dirty and worn too unless they are on the empire's payroll.

Good justification there. It doesn't mean I have to agree. I can accept the term Jedi and we know (from Yoda) that Jedi are not just human. In a printed publication (approved by Lucas BTW) it states:

Quote:


Originally, Slave I was a prototype police vehicle

So why was he a bounty hunter anyway?

I do like your explanation of the why the OT has a grittiness to it. All the imperial forces are neat and tidy except those storm troopers in that "look sir, droids" sequence of EP4 where they look like they managed to find some mud - on a dry desert planet no less

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
CAVX is offline  
post #1376 of 6227 Old 09-01-2010, 12:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post


So why was he a bounty hunter anyway?

...bad economy? Times are tough, and got to do something to make a living!

This has been a fascinating discussion, btw!

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #1377 of 6227 Old 09-01-2010, 12:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr. Hanky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

* Why did Ob-1 jump out of the window after the spy droid and not Anakin? This is VERY inconsistent to Ob-1's teachings to Anakin- "to stay calm and think". It makes NO sense for Ob-1 to jump in a split second out of a very high building when it should have been Anakin doing this since (a) Anakin is the one attracted to the Padme, not Ob-1, (b) Anakin is the one who should be doing the brisk and sudden thoughtless action stuff when Ob-1 should be there to "clean up the mess" after him, and (c) it goes against what OB1 has been saying to Anakin the entire time.

This is an interesting case you present, but I will take a crack at it.

Maybe jumping out the window was simply the "right" move, regardless of who did it first? Obi-Wan just did it first. It was a hot lead, and their only lead. So he went for it. Additionally, he is really the top guy in charge of security between the 2 of them, so he feels it very personally that his security detail operation had been compromised. He wants to find who compromised it more than providing comfort for a shaken Padme.

Anakin being attracted to Padme could just as well ensure he dwells over her longer than necessary as a defender to uncertain threat and out of concern that she is alright.

I need your sweet love, Rosetta Stone girl!
Mr. Hanky is offline  
post #1378 of 6227 Old 09-01-2010, 12:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
jd213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: less than 10 minutes from Akihabara
Posts: 749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I always thought the jumping out the window was stupid since the glass broke so easily. Even without the "transparisteel" from the expanded universe, you would think it would at least be laminated or something. You sure as hell couldn't do that in a modern building in the real world.

I guess you could say he used the Force, but he was never shown to wave his hand, like he did when he opened the door on Kamino.
jd213 is offline  
post #1379 of 6227 Old 09-01-2010, 03:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked: 213
Fenders, I'm not saying that Yoda's line in Empire should be used as the entire justification for that one scene in Clones, but it does at least point to Obi-Wan not always having been the staid monk-like character that we know.

Still, in Phantom Menace he's by far the more level headed out of him and his master. Remember Obi-Wan saying to Qui-Gon that he would be on the Council if only he abided by the Jedi code? For a Jedi, Qui-Gon has an alarming habit of bending the rules, which is what makes him such an interesting character to me.

If Qui-Gon had trained Anakin, perhaps his focus on the "living force" rather than Jedi dogma would've helped to regulate the boy's latent fear and aggression. But instead it's down to Obi-Wan, who's only just been made a Knight himself. Trapped by fate (a promise to his dying master), he insists that he will train Anakin with or without the approval of the Council. It's this pride which will blind him to his own inexperience as a teacher until it's too late.
Geoff D is offline  
post #1380 of 6227 Old 09-01-2010, 03:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CAVX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 8,378
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post


Speaking of that point- They spent all that energy dive bombing out of the window and the ships to chase the droid. When the bounty hunter shot the shapeshifter, they simply let him fly off without continuing to pursue him? How do you guys explain that? I mean, you can only travel so damn far with a jetpack. Being that we have seen Jedi fly out of buildings and land on cars, we should be able to see them follow the bounty hunter. But no, they give up...hmmm. You know, I don't even think they even acknowledged his presence.

Well the explanation is quite simple.

If the Jedi had caught Jango "the bounty hunter" Fett at that point in the film, there would be no need for Obi-Wan to travel to a place that (according to the Jedi archives) didn't exist. He then would not have discovered the clones, got an ass kicking by Jango "the bounty hunter" Fett, been able to follow Jango "the bounty hunter" Fett through an over done CG asteroid field to the foundries on Geonosis (spelling?).

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
CAVX is offline  
Closed Thread Blu-ray Software

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off