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post #3181 of 3194 Old 02-22-2014, 02:58 AM
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This might seem really left field here, but something to consider is the fact that prior to the release of BD at 1080/24p, video was encoded as either PAL or NTSC. Both had faults and where NTSC seemed to be more red. PAL tends to look slighty more green and THE MATRIX was proof if that.

Another thing to consider is the many more people are aware of the need to have their displays calibrated than 20 years ago.

When I first started combining audio and video (late 1980s), my first "big screen" was a SONY Trinitron. I thought my VHS (and later LD, then DVD) copies of these ALIEN films looked good.

Jump forward to 2008 when I got a colorimeter and things changed once I learned what video looks like at 6500k. Just for giggles, I measured the old Trinitron and found the colour temp to be 9300k on the low mode.

If people are not watching these BDs at 6500k, then yes ALIENS will look wrong. I do often think if the red push on the earlier versions of the films was not done to counter the blye bias 9300k would add to the image.

I recently watched a DVD copy of CROCODILE DUNDEE and found it almost unwatchable at 6500k. At 8500, much better.

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post #3182 of 3194 Old 02-22-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

If people are not watching these BDs at 6500k, then yes ALIENS will look wrong. I do often think if the red push on the earlier versions of the films was not done to counter the blye bias 9300k would add to the image.

While the old Aliens DVD transfer undoubtedly had its own share of issues, including the red push you mention, at least scenes in the movie had a variety of colors: some blue, some green, some red, some yellow, etc. The Blu-ray has been digitally graded to follow the modern fad where everything is either teal or orange. The variety of other colors have been wiped away.

James Cameron's movies of this period were famous for his "steely blue" color palette. There's no more blue in Aliens. It's all teal now. Teal is not the same color as blue. It looks gaudy and obnoxious now, IMO.

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post #3183 of 3194 Old 02-22-2014, 06:50 PM
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I guess I need to watch these films again, but I actually like the look of these transfers. ALIEN and ALIENS look stunning, A3 and AR look good considering they didn't get the love of first 2. I just wish AR was not as grainy as it is.

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post #3184 of 3194 Old 02-22-2014, 07:05 PM
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While the old Aliens DVD transfer undoubtedly had its own share of issues, including the red push you mention, at least scenes in the movie had a variety of colors: some blue, some green, some red, some yellow, etc. The Blu-ray has been digitally graded to follow the modern fad where everything is either teal or orange. The variety of other colors have been wiped away.

James Cameron's movies of this period were famous for his "steely blue" color palette. There's no more blue in Aliens. It's all teal now. Teal is not the same color as blue. It looks gaudy and obnoxious now, IMO.

Sitting down in my home theater and having to mouth those immortal words again, "Not another f*****g orange and teal movie!"

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post #3185 of 3194 Old 02-23-2014, 12:38 AM
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ALIEN and ALIENS look stunning.
I just wish AR was not as grainy as it is.
Agreed.
The first 2 look terrific IMO (particularly Alien).

For some reason, no one seems to have love for AR besides me.
It's a movie in a similar vein as Aliens: an action/adventure shoot-em-up, hold on to your junk kinda movie.wink.gif

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post #3186 of 3194 Old 02-23-2014, 01:39 AM
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Agreed.
The first 2 look terrific IMO (particularly Alien).

For some reason, no one seems to have love for AR besides me.
It's a movie in a similar vein as Aliens: an action/adventure shoot-em-up, hold on to your junk kinda movie.wink.gif
It's also one of the earlier efforts of Joss Whedon's writing, after watching Firefly and some of his other things you see his approach to the new characters in AR when you go back to it. When I look at AR now I totally see Whedon style of characters.Not too mention how he sees the future. Also agree with what Oink said too.

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post #3187 of 3194 Old 02-24-2014, 10:00 AM
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It's also one of the earlier efforts of Joss Whedon's writing, after watching Firefly and some of his other things you see his approach to the new characters in AR when you go back to it. When I look at AR now I totally see Whedon style of characters.Not too mention how he sees the future. Also agree with what Oink said too.

Whedon was extremely displeased with the finished movie. He didn't care for the way Jeunet visualized his story. I believe he said that it was the exact opposite of what he pictured when he wrote it. The main reason he made Firefly later was so that he could do his original concept about a ragtag group of space scoundrels the way he wanted it.

When Whedon gets an idea in his head, he doesn't like to let go. (See also: Buffy.)

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post #3188 of 3194 Old 02-24-2014, 10:37 AM
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Whedon was extremely displeased with the finished movie. He didn't care for the way Jeunet visualized his story. I believe he said that it was the exact opposite of what he pictured when he wrote it.
Judging by the screenplay, I'm not sure what JW is upset about.
The World of the Alien is a dark, gritty, foreboding place, which is pretty much what AR is.

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post #3189 of 3194 Old 02-24-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Judging by the screenplay, I'm not sure what JW is upset about.
The World of the Alien is a dark, gritty, foreboding place, which is pretty much what AR is.

The relevant quote from JW on the matter is this: "There's actually a fascinating lesson in filmmaking, because everything that they did reflects back to the script or looks like something from the script, and people assume that, if I hated it, then they’d changed the script... but it wasn’t so much that they’d changed the script; it’s that they just executed it in such a ghastly fashion as to render it almost unwatchable."
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post #3190 of 3194 Old 02-24-2014, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

This might seem really left field here, but something to consider is the fact that prior to the release of BD at 1080/24p, video was encoded as either PAL or NTSC. Both had faults and where NTSC seemed to be more red. PAL tends to look slighty more green and THE MATRIX was proof if that.

.

I don't think PAL had anything to do with the green tint in The Matrix. My understanding has always been that the green tint only appears in the scenes when they are in the Matrix and it goes away when they are outside the Matrix. So it should be there regardless of the format it's encoded in.
+
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post #3191 of 3194 Old 02-25-2014, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Agreed.
The first 2 look terrific IMO (particularly Alien).

For some reason, no one seems to have love for AR besides me.
It's a movie in a similar vein as Aliens: an action/adventure shoot-em-up, hold on to your junk kinda movie.wink.gif

I actually do like AR. The only thing that I don't about that film is the "the new born". I think that creature design is a total WTF. I like the idea of the genetic replication and how there were 7 failed attempts before her. I like the crew of the Betty and their rag tag pirate thing they do and even though the Xenos are a bit "space raptor", they are well done and I do like the "sacrifice" they make to escape. Given there is a wide shot with 12 isolated storage containers and they grew 12, makes you wonder why would you put three in the one cage? And why does it take so much longer for the last guy to pop? Other than that, cool film and I really like that alternate beginning with the bug.

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I don't think PAL had anything to do with the green tint in The Matrix. My understanding has always been that the green tint only appears in the scenes when they are in the Matrix and it goes away when they are outside the Matrix. So it should be there regardless of the format it's encoded in.
+

Yes the green parts were done to show there is "something not quite right in The Matrix" verses the "real world". Don't know if you have had a chance to view both the PAL and NTSC versions, but the PAL is way greener. The BD is pretty green too.

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post #3192 of 3194 Old 02-25-2014, 07:47 AM
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they just executed it in such a ghastly fashion as to render it almost unwatchable."
I guess I'm gonna have to disagree with JW; IMO, AR is not "unwatchable."
However......

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I actually do like AR. The only thing that I don't about that film is the "the new born". I think that creature design is a total WTF. I like the idea of the genetic replication and how there were 7 failed attempts before her. I like the crew of the Betty and their rag tag pirate thing they do and even though the Xenos are a bit "space raptor", they are well done and I do like the "sacrifice" they make to escape. Given there is a wide shot with 12 isolated storage containers and they grew 12, makes you wonder why would you put three in the one cage? And why does it take so much longer for the last guy to pop? Other than that, cool film and I really like that alternate beginning with the bug.
Couldn't agree more.wink.gif

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post #3193 of 3194 Old 02-25-2014, 08:20 AM
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Yes the green parts were done to show there is "something not quite right in The Matrix" verses the "real world". Don't know if you have had a chance to view both the PAL and NTSC versions, but the PAL is way greener. The BD is pretty green too.

Which video editions are you comparing?

The theatrical release of the first Matrix movie had a greenish tinge because it was photographed in a process that removed blue from the image. The sequels had a much stronger green tint applied in post production.

The first DVD release roughly reflects the way that The Matrix looked in theaters. However, for the "Ultimate Collection" box set, the Wachowskis remastered the film to apply the stronger green tint so that it would be consistent with the sequels. All subsequent DVD and Blu-ray editions have the revised coloring.

If you're comparing the oldest NTSC DVD edition of the first movie to the later Ultimate Collection PAL DVD, the colors will look different. That's just not an apples-to-apples comparison.

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post #3194 of 3194 Old 03-07-2014, 05:16 AM
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.

If you're comparing the oldest NTSC DVD edition of the first movie to the later Ultimate Collection PAL DVD, the colors will look different. That's just not an apples-to-apples comparison.

The film came out in 1999(?) and the video was early 2000 if I remember correctly. I only ever bought the first release on PAL DVD and it was greener than the NTSC version was at the same release time. I remember actually preferring the NTSC version at the time.

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