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post #181 of 1061 Old 10-04-2010, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Techfocus View Post

I'll take DNR removing a small amount of detail over the pink tinge in those scenes any day. Especially as it's very likely to be the same amount used on the original, in other words not devastating to the picture. It's a deal breaker I'm willing to accept, on this occasion at least.

You can do it without DNR Aliens has proven this
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post #182 of 1061 Old 10-04-2010, 02:12 PM
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Oh absolutely it could have been done without DNR. Aliens looks fantastic. Here however it's a different scenario. I can only decide with what I have to work with. I have always had my pet peeves with DNR. Like I said before though, this isn't a situation like Predator that would lead me to being both incredibly annoyed and canceling my order as a result.
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post #183 of 1061 Old 10-04-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techfocus View Post

Oh absolutely it could have been done without DNR. Aliens looks fantastic. Here however it's a different scenario. I can only decide with what I have to work with. I have always had my pet peeves with DNR. Like I said before though, this isn't a situation like Predator that would lead me to being both incredibly annoyed and canceling my order as a result.

[hyperbole]We are yet to see 2 and 3 yet!!![/hyperbole]

I agree that this is light DNR, but is this what Universal has beaten us into?
"Oh its only a little, thats better than (Dark City, Predator etc)"
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post #184 of 1061 Old 10-04-2010, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post


You can do it without DNR Aliens has proven this

Aliens has been completely DNRd. Lowry's process does a complete grain removal at the beginning (while also getting the maximum amount of picture information due to cross-referencing many adjacent frames for detail) then re-grains the movie according to the customer's wishes. The grain in Aliens is completely digital and has nothing to do with what was on the original negative. This is the case for all Lowry restorations. In the early days (i.e. Citizen Kane and North by Northwest DVDs) they shipped them completely degrained, but even Lowry said that these went too far. Lately, the mantra is to add grain that is even across the whole movie to satisfy modern tastes, and use grain that at least resembles film grain from the period the movie was made in, unless the customer had different wishes. This was for example done nicely for the Bond restorations.
Examples for "customer's wishes" overriding historical accuracy are the Disney animated pictures, where no re-graining is done since Disney looks at the film grain as an unwanted side effect of the medium, and Aliens, where Jim Cameron wanted very fine grain to simulate the look of a dirty war documentary (similar to Spielberg's style in Saving Private Ryan).

For people in the industry it's quite funny to read raves about the great grain retention whenever a Blu-Ray is reviewed that went through Lowry. The grain on all these discs is no more real than the fake grain George Lucas applied to Ep 2 and 3 to make them look less sterile.

And BTW, this is not a criticism - I take a great Lowry restoration with fake period grain any day, since their process ensures that at first all information possible to be harvested from a scan actually does get extracted.
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post #185 of 1061 Old 10-04-2010, 11:54 PM
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Rather ties with what I said in the Alien Anthology thread - if you completely de-grain a picture, you don't get any new detail, so to the eye it just looks unnatural because the grain is no longer there to cover up the lesser detail (and the picture looks fake) - although, don't get me wrong, if the grain removal is done badly you lose more than just grain. But if you re-add the grain, the eye has something to distract it, so you think there's more detail there than there really is, so the effect is more pleasing.

I'd be curious to see mock-ups of Predator/Patton with thick grain added to them again.
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post #186 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood Floyd View Post

Examples for "customer's wishes" overriding historical accuracy are the Disney animated pictures, where no re-graining is done since Disney looks at the film grain as an unwanted side effect of the medium,

Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Dumbo, and Pinnochio were all extremely degrained.
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post #187 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 03:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywood Floyd View Post

Aliens has been completely DNRd. Lowry's process does a complete grain removal at the beginning (while also getting the maximum amount of picture information due to cross-referencing many adjacent frames for detail) then re-grains the movie according to the customer's wishes. The grain in Aliens is completely digital and has nothing to do with what was on the original negative. This is the case for all Lowry restorations. In the early days (i.e. Citizen Kane and North by Northwest DVDs) they shipped them completely degrained, but even Lowry said that these went too far. Lately, the mantra is to add grain that is even across the whole movie to satisfy modern tastes, and use grain that at least resembles film grain from the period the movie was made in, unless the customer had different wishes. This was for example done nicely for the Bond restorations.
Examples for "customer's wishes" overriding historical accuracy are the Disney animated pictures, where no re-graining is done since Disney looks at the film grain as an unwanted side effect of the medium, and Aliens, where Jim Cameron wanted very fine grain to simulate the look of a dirty war documentary (similar to Spielberg's style in Saving Private Ryan).

For people in the industry it's quite funny to read raves about the great grain retention whenever a Blu-Ray is reviewed that went through Lowry. The grain on all these discs is no more real than the fake grain George Lucas applied to Ep 2 and 3 to make them look less sterile.

And BTW, this is not a criticism - I take a great Lowry restoration with fake period grain any day, since their process ensures that at first all information possible to be harvested from a scan actually does get extracted.

I am aware of that, I meant the DNR look
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post #188 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Dumbo, and Pinnochio were all extremely degrained.

I thought they actually went back and rescanned the animation cells, not a DNR pass of a print.

I wish there were some screen caps to check out for BTTF.

Judging from the Aliens caps Lowry has improved their methodology considerably, assuming they actually DNRed the bejeebers out of it. Some of the Bond films however clearly have the waxy look with artificial grain tacked over to conceal their naughtiness. Very annoying.

Surely someone has the BR set now and could just post a few caps. ;}

Lets see some HD Delorean time machine action!

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post #189 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

I thought they actually went back and rescanned the animation cells, not a DNR pass of a print.

Scanning the animation cells would be impossible as most are missing or in the hands of various collector's throughout the world.

Here's a video explaining the restoration of Sleeping Beauty. Take note of the "dust bust process".

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post #190 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 10:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Scanning the animation cells would be impossible as most are missing or in the hands of various collector's throughout the world.

Here's a video explaining the restoration of Sleeping Beauty. Take note of the "dust bust process".

???
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post #191 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 10:13 AM
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Since people are talking about DNR and the like, are there screencaps in the wild already? I haven't been online much in the last couple weeks, did I miss them?
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post #192 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 10:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Since people are talking about DNR and the like, are there screencaps in the wild already? I haven't been online much in the last couple weeks, did I miss them?

Cinema showings of BTTF in 4k
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post #193 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

???

Bloody hell, my eyes!

You see what I mean? A pink, brown haze sucking the life out of the image, and that's not even an effects shot. Yuck.

Yes I know, I know it's a compressed image, the problem still exists on the older prints however, regardless.
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post #194 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techfocus View Post

Bloody hell, my eyes!

You see what I mean? A pink, brown haze sucking the life out of the image, and that's not even an effects shot. Yuck.

Yes I know, I know it's a compressed image, the problem still exists on the older prints however, regardless.

Perhaps the look was intentional. I've never had a problem with it having seen it many, many, many times.

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post #195 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:15 PM
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Perhaps the look was intentional. I've never had a problem with it having seen it many, many, many times.

I doubt it. If it was, then I'm glad it won't look like that on the Blu-ray.

I know because the original looked dull before as well and the new restoration is eye-popping in comparison.

I expect BTTF2 to look even better, and for that pink tinge to be gone forever.
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post #196 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:17 PM
 
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From the HDTV version

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post #197 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:24 PM
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It's even uglier at that size.

I'll take something more like this for the Blu-ray please.

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post #198 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:26 PM
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What are we meant to be looking at?
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post #199 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:28 PM
 
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What are we meant to be looking at?

You can see Jesus in the dust buster, if we are talking digital tweeks can we have the better original Jennifer in the sequels please
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post #200 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 01:34 PM
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You can see Jesus in the dust buster

How annoying. That guy gets everywhere.
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post #201 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 03:43 PM
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Just saw BTTF projected digitally at my local cinema.

It looks fine.

Grain is present throughout.

Stop panicking.
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post #202 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techfocus View Post

It's even uglier at that size.

I'll take something more like this for the Blu-ray please.
snip

And I'll take the original. Your preferred version is far too green.

The original Jennifer had what, 10 lines throughout the entire film? If that's enough to conclude that Claudia Wells is a better actress than Elisabeth Shue and better suited for the role, then that's news to me. Claudia wasn't available for the filming of II and III, so they chose to replace her, just like the did with Crispin Glover in Part II.

I think you are simply nitpicking just to nitpick. There is nothing wrong with the screen cap posted, it's just your preference.

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post #203 of 1061 Old 10-05-2010, 10:05 PM
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Also, does anyone know if the UK version will be region free? I really want the limited edition with the Sports Almanac.

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post #204 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 03:24 AM
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Also, does anyone know if the UK version will be region free? I really want the limited edition with the Sports Almanac.

Universal = Region free.
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post #205 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 06:17 AM
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Blu-ray screenshots are now online here.
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post #206 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Blu-rayFanBoy View Post

Blu-ray screenshots are now online here.

Good enough to buy that thing.

Way better than the dvds.

But still a little bit digital look in my eyes.
A little sharpening and DNR i think. too bad they couldn't resist

Look especially to this shot:
http://hcc.techradar.com/files/hcc_c...re/BTTF_16.jpg

It looks sharpened and DNRed.

But of course at least not pattonized or predatorized.
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post #207 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 06:54 AM
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Not very impressed, the look reminds me of Psycho - DNR + Sharpening.

I doubt these masters were created from new scans.

When will Universal finally learn........

No buy for me.
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post #208 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brad View Post

And I'll take the original. Your preferred version is far too green.

Hence why I said "'ll take something more like this for the Blu-ray please."

It wasn't meant to be anything more than a rough estimate, but then you knew that.





Ah, much better. Even with the obvious DNR applied.
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post #209 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 07:10 AM
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You just can't win with Universal. EE and DNR issues on all 3. New transfers, same bs processing. Buttheads.
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post #210 of 1061 Old 10-06-2010, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

Not very impressed, the look reminds me of Psycho - DNR + Sharpening.

I doubt these masters were created from new scans.

I doubt that too.

But it doesn't look bad at all imho.
So no need to skip this in my opinion.

It certainly doesn't look as good as it could but like i said no Patton or Predator here.

Because we are on a new Page here are the link to the Blu Ray Screenshots again:

http://hcc.techradar.com/playback/co...ilogy-06-10-10
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