Lion King Blu-ray Discussion Thread for Audio and Video - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 170 Old 09-28-2011, 11:31 AM
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I know I'm also being sarcastic

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post #92 of 170 Old 09-28-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I know I'm also being sarcastic

Duh man, you didn't know I was being sarcastic about thinking you weren't being sarcastic?!

In other news, I'm all in for this film even if it only included the stampede scene.
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post #93 of 170 Old 09-28-2011, 07:48 PM
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all that missing cloud makes my head about the explode (but I'm not allowed to, the smoke emanating from my head will be banned)

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post #94 of 170 Old 09-29-2011, 09:01 PM
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The removed cloud is lame...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcube View Post

3D would never erase a shadow completely in a single eye. you might see a shift in the angle of it but that's all.

Finally got to check this and you're correct. I added the right-eye view of that jumping scene to my post along with a few others.

Also wanted to show a more obvious animation change from 2D to 3D:
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post #95 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

The removed cloud is lame...



Finally got to check this and you're correct. I added the right-eye view of that jumping scene to my post along with a few others.

Also wanted to show a more obvious animation change from 2D to 3D:

Wow, the changes don't stop coming. They redid the entire foreground plane.
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post #96 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

Wow, the changes don't stop coming. They redid the entire foreground plane.

I wonder what makes them think they can do this to certain films but not to others. They didn't go in and redraw parts of Snow White or Pinocchio. Is it because Walt wasn't alive in 1994 that makes the original artwork of this already-classic film less important? After Spielberg is finished talking sense to George Lucas, he needs to start on Disney!
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post #97 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post

I wonder what makes them think they can do this to certain films but not to others. They didn't go in and redraw parts of Snow White or Pinocchio. Is it because Walt wasn't alive in 1994 that makes the original artwork of this already-classic film less important? After Spielberg is finished talking sense to George Lucas, he needs to start on Disney!

Walt had a reputation for tinkering with his movies after they were completed as well. Look at the Fantasia censorship.

While Pinocchio may not have had artwork redrawn, it has been extensively recolored. So have many other Disney classics.

I don't agree with it, but it has long been the company's stance that its animated films should be "timeless." For many years, the studio refused to put copyright dates on the VHS, LD, and DVD editions of its movies, because it didn't want children watching Sleeping Beauty or whatever to think of them as "old" movies.

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post #98 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 03:08 PM
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$5.oo Coupon is up at the Disney Movie Rewards

http://www.disneymovierewards.go.com...lionkingcoupon
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post #99 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Walt had a reputation for tinkering with his movies after they were completed as well. Look at the Fantasia censorship.

While Pinocchio may not have had artwork redrawn, it has been extensively recolored. So have many other Disney classics.

I don't agree with it, but it has long been the company's stance that its animated films should be "timeless." For many years, the studio refused to put copyright dates on the VHS, LD, and DVD editions of its movies, because it didn't want children watching Sleeping Beauty or whatever to think of them as "old" movies.

I think I have to politely disagree here. Don't want to stray too far off topic here, but as far as the Fantasia edits, really what choice did Disney have? They could remove the offensive parts and alienate the film students & purists, or they could release them in their original form and anger everyone else.

Regarding the color, here is an interesting article about Disney's restoration process (Dumbo, specifically). They underscore that in determining the color temp they go back to the original elements - but they don't sample those for the color palette, because that's not what the film would have looked like in the theater. Instead they scan & print them as they would for release, and sample that. That can lead people who have grown up viewing earlier home releases to think that the colors have been messed with.

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I did want to point out, from a color standpoint, we're fortunate because we here at Disney have our Animation Research Library which has something north of 70 million pieces of art archived. And we're able to go back and pull out color backgrounds from all of these films, as well as get a series of backgrounds that would be representative of the color palette of the movie. Instead of just looking at those backgrounds, we actually have them scanned and photographed out on SE film, because the successive exposure film actually picks up contrast and picks up color saturation, and the Disney background artists always painted their backgrounds a little bit less contrast-y and a little bit muted, knowing that the photographic process would then pick up the contrasts and saturations to give them what it was they wanted. So we take a lot of care in making sure that we are restoring these back to what the artistic intention was, as far as the color goes.

And the copyright issue may have more to do with Disney's stance on intellectual property/public domain legislation in the U.S.

On to... Lion King. Yes, I feel they should leave clouds and foregrounds and everything else as far as content alone... for the 2d version. As far as the 3d, however, let's face it: by converting it, they are already removing it considerably from its original intended viewing format. So I feel they should be free to make those creative decisions (as long as they provide the unaltered 2d version!).

Now, it seems the changes to the grass and shadow and reflection are only for the 3d, but the cloud screencap seems to indicate the 2d is affected as well. If so, I have a feeling this may have been a mistake rather than a conscious decision... if so, we may be looking at an exchange program ala Pinocchio or POTC sometime down the line...
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post #100 of 170 Old 09-30-2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

While Pinocchio may not have had artwork redrawn, it has been extensively recolored. So have many other Disney classics.

Absolutely not. The Blurays were sourced from the original negatives. The reason why the colors look different on DVD and VHS (and incorrect) is because those were sourced from later prints that had aged and not from the originals. You can read about it in Dumbo Bluray interviews.
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post #101 of 170 Old 10-01-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebard View Post

On to... Lion King. Yes, I feel they should leave clouds and foregrounds and everything else as far as content alone... for the 2d version. As far as the 3d, however, let's face it: by converting it, they are already removing it considerably from its original intended viewing format. So I feel they should be free to make those creative decisions (as long as they provide the unaltered 2d version!).

There are several shots, where 3D just works so well, as if they had a 3D presentation already in mind when they made TLK.

Quote:


Now, it seems the changes to the grass and shadow and reflection are only for the 3d, but the cloud screencap seems to indicate the 2d is affected as well. If so, I have a feeling this may have been a mistake rather than a conscious decision... if so, we may be looking at an exchange program ala Pinocchio or POTC sometime down the line...

From what I could gather, the missing clouds were already in the IMAX release in 2003, so maybe the IMAX Master, from which the Blu Ray is derived afaik, is faulty, so there is slim chance they'll be able to fix it. Just to clarify - both versions - 2D and 3D - are missing the clouds. At least on the French version, but I'm fairly certain the masters for French and the US version won't differ.
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post #102 of 170 Old 10-01-2011, 09:47 PM
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Did they leave the "sex" (or special effects / "sfx") cloud in?

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com...eysex.jpg.jpeg

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post #103 of 170 Old 10-01-2011, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

Did they leave the "sex" (or special effects / "sfx") cloud in?

http://listverse.files.wordpress.com...eysex.jpg.jpeg

No, that hasn't been in since they discovered the gaffe. It's just a nondescript plume of dust now.
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post #104 of 170 Old 10-01-2011, 10:49 PM
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Dust


I don't have the DVD anymore but here's the correct frame to match the DVD shot of the cloud, since the Blu-ray shot in the post was a different frame and inexplicably cropped to 2.21:1. The stars seem to have changed from white to blue with the new master.


This scene has a lot of dithering to the point it almost looks grainy (not that I'm complaining).
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post #105 of 170 Old 10-02-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Dust


I don't have the DVD anymore but here's the correct frame to match the DVD shot of the cloud, since the Blu-ray shot in the post was a different frame and inexplicably cropped to 2.21:1. The stars seem to have changed from white to blue with the new master.


This scene has a lot of dithering to the point it almost looks grainy (not that I'm complaining).

Wow, and people think George Lucas is bad. He only enhances or adds things. Taking something away that isn't an unintended by-product like a support wire? Good job, Disney.

Everyone needs to refuse to purchase this unless the original, unaltered 1994 artistic vision is included in the set. I want to watch The Lion King and not some manipulated, "Pixar"-ized, modern homage to it. I saw every wave of ocean painstakingly drawn in Pinocchio, and every leaf in Bambi, and I see no reason why I should settle for anything less with this classic.
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post #106 of 170 Old 10-03-2011, 09:00 PM
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So what's the best deal on this one?

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post #107 of 170 Old 10-04-2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimV View Post

So what's the best deal on this one?

No crazy deals that I've been able to find. I'm just doing Target or Best Buy with the $5 reward coupon for the 4 disc version. Still, $25 for a digital copy, the dvd, the soundtrack, the 3D version, and the 2D version in HD, (plus all the extras) is a pretty darn good deal.
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post #108 of 170 Old 10-04-2011, 09:24 AM
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I ended up buying only the Lion King (not the box set) since I hate the cardboard box taking so much space and I don't care for Lion King 2. I hope they'll release Lion King 1 1/2 on blu-ray though (or if anybody here don't care for Lion King 1 1/2 Blu-ray, PM me)

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post #109 of 170 Old 10-04-2011, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimV View Post

So what's the best deal on this one?

I guess not buying it, is a good deal. Doesnt get cheaper then that.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #110 of 170 Old 10-04-2011, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WebEffect View Post

I saw every wave of ocean painstakingly drawn in Pinocchio, and every leaf in Bambi, and I see no reason why I should settle for anything less with this classic.

But you didn't see a single halide crystal, now did you?

I'll be picking up a copy of this with the wife tomorrow. Already got the Best Buy tin, which I must say is a handsome little affair.
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post #111 of 170 Old 10-06-2011, 09:08 PM
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I guess not buying it, is a good deal. Doesnt get cheaper then that.

That's what my dad would say.
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post #112 of 170 Old 10-06-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzy View Post

They ripped-off the concept a little, but it is pretty good (someone once posted comparison pics with an older Japanese animation).

A little? You be the judge.




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"I said to my wife, 'Don't tell me that the father lion is going to appear in the clouds.' And he did! I couldn't believe it!"
--Fred Ladd,
executive producer of Kimba The White Lion, on seeing The Lion King for the first time





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Kimba is one of the landmarks of animation. The Disney company has earned over 1.5 billion dollars from The Lion King but has not given either any sort of compensation to Tezuka Productions nor credit to Osamu Tezuka. I know their creative people know better. In and of itself, it's not a crime that they did take elements from Tezuka's work--there are also elements in The Lion King that would seem to come from Kipling's Jungle Books (not the Disney version) and from a famous pre-WWII Nazi propaganda film (Triumph of the Will). Cultural references are to be expected. But when a work derives so much from another, denying the source is wrong. To deny the source does an injustice to Osamu Tezuka, the original creator, and to Disney's own people who love Tezuka's works.

Link: http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm
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post #113 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 07:15 AM
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Has anyone else used the Second Screen app with their iPad?

I actually thought it was pretty cool, one of the few examples of BD-Java that made me take notice.
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post #114 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

A little? You be the judge.










Link: http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm

I have no doubt it's for legal reasons they do not acknowledge Kimba. They probably fear that it opens the door for litigation.

It's far easier to give thanks to Shakespeare, as he's a lot less likely to lawyer up. :-)

Also, I've seen Kimba, and it's not the heavy borrowing people imply. I agree with the previous poster, it really is a little borrowing. I say that as a die hard Anime fan. It's also worth pointing out that this goes both ways, or does no one remember Priss and the Replicants? ;-)
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post #115 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 04:03 PM
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So I picked up my 2 Disc Copy yesterday at the Disney Store...but it was in a DVD case?

The 3D version was in the normal case, seems kind of odd. I preordered Cars 2 while I was there but if it's going to be in a DVD case again, I might just go back to another store.

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post #116 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 04:56 PM
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I may be wrong but IIRC there the following versions:

1. DVD + BD in DVD case
2. DVD + BD + Digital copy in BD case
3. DVD + BD + 3D BD + Digital copy in BD case
4. DVD + BD + 3D BD + Digital copy in BD tin caseI

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post #117 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 08:17 PM
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I've heard the Disney Stores only do the DVD packaging for some weird reason. I remember people mentioning that from previous releases like BatB.

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post #118 of 170 Old 10-07-2011, 08:26 PM
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Not only Disney stores. For BatB, Costco, Walmart and Toys R Us in Canada have DVD + BD in BD case and in DVD case.

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post #119 of 170 Old 10-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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Yeah I don't really get the DVD case outside of people just being more used to DVD cases and a BD case being some sort of warning to them to not buy it. Then again people don't read much and comprehension sucks nowadays so apparently there's some real need for this.
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post #120 of 170 Old 10-08-2011, 11:58 AM
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Put it this way, I was selling a DVD on eBay, on the title page I wrote: Fast Five DVD Disc ONLY and in the item description I wrote: FAST FIVE - DISC ONLY - o artwork, no case

Still people PM me asking me "is this DVD or Blu-ray" and "does it come with DVD case amd artwork"... Aaaargh! Which part of DVD disc only they don't get?

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