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HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2
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post #31 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Toshiba only paid for the authoring & encoding of the HD DVD discs themselves. They had nothing to do with the project proper.

Money is money... and we didn't get seasons 2 and 3 until quite a while after season 1... plus season 1 on Blu was released way later than season 1 on HD-DVD had been... so the Toshiba money did play a part.

Bottom line... it is a bunch of money someone would have to put up front in hopes that they could sell lots of Blu sets + in syndication again with new/cleaner episodes... and I'm not sure the current market would bear that out.
MovieSwede's Avatar MovieSwede
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post #32 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Money is money... and we didn't get seasons 2 and 3 until quite a while after season 1... plus season 1 on Blu was released way later than season 1 on HD-DVD had been... so the Toshiba money did play a part.

They may play a part if something get released or not. But the restorations were already done, and was not funded by Toshiba.
rezzy's Avatar rezzy
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post #33 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

+1 was this series even shot on film?

It debuted in 1987; I don't think HD cameras were even yet available. They were probably still on the drawing boards in Japan. But if they actually go through the motions to get this done properly, I'll bite.
dvdmike007's Avatar dvdmike007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbotron View Post

The original model work ILM did for Encounter at Farpoint was done on 35mm film. Proof of that is in Star Trek Generations as they recycled a couple shots from the pilot for the movie. In the scheme of things, those model shots were about 50% of all model shots used throughout the show since they recycled those shots so much.

They wouldn't have to use a CG Enterprise as much, but they would still have to recomposite the ship, recreate the starfield and the planets and other spaceships.

The 6-foot Enterprise model looked phenomenal, both in the first three seasons of TNG and in Generations. It would be a pity if they went with a 100% CGI Enterprise if they went ahead and made them for Blu-ray.

If they do go for it, we might even get extended episodes since they have to edit them from scratch.

Exactly, Insurrection has the ony CGI that I liked from the whole of star trek.
I would preffer just to get them in HD with upscaled space shots.
DS9 had more outside shots than TNG anyway
Dave Mack's Avatar Dave Mack
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post #35 of 2449
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As far as consistency of quality, I felt DS9 was the best series. TOS is still my fave and has several episodes that are the best in all TREK but they had their fair share of clunkers. While DS9 only had a few eps that came near the best of TOS, as far as a series? The best imho. I watched all 7 seasons in a row a few years back and had a blast.

But I doubt they will get to DS9.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
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post #36 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Exactly, Insurrection has the ony CGI that I liked from the whole of star trek.
I would preffer just to get them in HD with upscaled space shots.
DS9 had more outside shots than TNG anyway

Insurrection??? That's the most "cartoony" looking of the TNG films!

First Contact had plenty of CG ships, mixed with models. You can't tell because it's GREAT CG.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
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post #37 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

Money is money... and we didn't get seasons 2 and 3 until quite a while after season 1... plus season 1 on Blu was released way later than season 1 on HD-DVD had been... so the Toshiba money did play a part.

ON DISC. The work on the show was done long before that, Tosh money played no part in the production or syndication (sales certainly didn't either). It ONLY paid for the HD DVDs production (authoring, encoding, HDi features). Nor was it a consideration when they planned the TOS Remastered project in the beginning.

The BDs also got lossless 7.1 audio and branching with the original FX, and they were marketed with the launch of the new film.

Quote:
Bottom line... it is a bunch of money someone would have to put up front in hopes that they could sell lots of Blu sets + in syndication again with new/cleaner episodes... and I'm not sure the current market would bear that out.

It did for TOS, and if they did say a season or two a year (instead of rushing them all out at once) it wouldn't bust their bank. Syndicate it & put it on SyFy HD.

Season sets would be released on BD in 2012 to coincide with the film sequel.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
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post #38 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbotron View Post

The original model work ILM did for Encounter at Farpoint was done on 35mm film.[ Proof of that is in Star Trek Generations as they recycled a couple shots from the pilot for the movie.

It was shot large format VistaVision. Even then, they had to steady and clean up the film quite a bit for the big screen. In the saucer sep sequence you can see the stars through the Enterprise (cobra head) in the first shot because of blue spill on the original modelwork. Other than that, all the other shots were new.

Quote:
The 6-foot Enterprise model looked phenomenal, both in the first three seasons of TNG and in Generations. It would be a pity if they went with a 100% CGI Enterprise if they went ahead and made them for Blu-ray.

The 6-foot model was unwieldy for everyday studio shooting and lacked detail, which was fine for 480i TV. Most of the new modelwork done for the first and second seasons was with the little 2-footer they built. By then it was apparent that reusing the stock footage was insufficient (and getting damned repetitive). Because of theat, they commissioned Greg Jein's modelshop to build a new 3 foot model for the 3rd season. For the rest of the series that's what you saw when they had new shots of the Enterprise-D, save for The Best of Both Worlds' saucer/battle section Borg battle.

For Generations ILM gave the 6-footer a complete overhaul, repainting and re-detailing the surface.

Quote:
If they do go for it, we might even get extended episodes since they have to edit them from scratch.

Unlikely since they would be made for the syndicated market. 43 minutes if we're lucky.
jimbotron's Avatar jimbotron
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post #39 of 2449
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I liked the reduced detail on the 6-foot model. It helps sell its size. If you're looking at a huge ship from far away, you're not going to see oodles of detail; things would look smooth. The 4-foot model's detail was too exaggerated IMO. The saucer also looked off because they fattened the center of it to accommodate Ten Forward.

TOS episodes were 50 minutes and TNG episodes were 45 minutes. So even in syndication, TOS remastered gets away with only 10 minutes of commercials. That is, unless they cut it down. I haven't noticed anything gone.

I saw the 4-foot model a few months ago at the Star Trek exhibit at the Tech Museum in San Jose. It was in really bad condition. It still had the scars left from the All Good Things future modifications. The Stargazer/Hathaway model was also there in even worse shape. Only the models in good condition went to auction leaving the wrecked stuff for exhibits.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
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post #40 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbotron View Post

TOS episodes were 50 minutes and TNG episodes were 45 minutes. So even in syndication, TOS remastered gets away with only 10 minutes of commercials. That is, unless they cut it down. I haven't noticed anything gone.

Most syndicated markets chopped out quite a bit. If you go to the TREKMOVIE website you'll see quite a few complaints in the comments section of the episodes' analysis.

Quote:
I saw the 4-foot model a few months ago at the Star Trek exhibit at the Tech Museum in San Jose. It was in really bad condition. It still had the scars left from the All Good Things future modifications. The Stargazer/Hathaway model was also there in even worse shape. Only the models in good condition went to auction leaving the wrecked stuff for exhibits.

I don't think the "scars" was from All Good Things. They used the model afterwards that year for DS9's 2nd season finale The Jem'Hadar where it was the USS Odyssey.

They used it again briefly in the opener for DS9's 4th season where it was the USS Venture (with added phaser emplacements on the nacelles).
jimbotron's Avatar jimbotron
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post #41 of 2449
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Oh no, the scars were there. I could see where the third nacelle was once attached and where the phaser cannon placed on the underside of the saucer used to be. Under harsh fluorescent lighting, it was quite noticeable. There was touch-up paint done on those sections which looked pretty bad. The decals had been replaced so it was once again the 1701-D, and those were poorly done as well.

What you saw in those episodes of DS9 were under controlled conditions and lighting.
Jedi2016's Avatar Jedi2016
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post #42 of 2449
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Depends on how they do the CGI (if they do it that way). I have a fan-made digital model of the Ent-D that's simply stunning, better in detail and quality than any of the digital ships made for the films (possibly excepting the JJ-prise), and can easily be made to look like a studio-shot model when it's lit and rendered correctly.
HDMe2's Avatar HDMe2
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post #43 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

ON DISC. The work on the show was done long before that, Tosh money played no part in the production or syndication (sales certainly didn't either). It ONLY paid for the HD DVDs production (authoring, encoding, HDi features). Nor was it a consideration when they planned the TOS Remastered project in the beginning.

Perhaps... but I remember all the talk back at the time about how the Toshiba money helped the season 1 HD DVD get released sooner than it would have without Toshiba money. And for the purposes of this thread, unless and until a Blu ray release comes out it really doesn't matter if they show them in syndication or not... since this thread is about people who want to buy Blu ray releases of the remastered TNG episodes.

The remastering of the episodes wasn't done exactly in season airing order... as I believe they were remastering the more popular episodes first... which would have meant that without Toshiba helping on the HD DVD costs, the studio stood to make more money in syndication by remastering all of the most popular episodes before going back and touching the less popular ones... which would mean season set releases would likely have had to wait until ALL episodes were remastered.

For TNG... IF they did the same thing... season 1 (minus the pilot episode) would not be high on the list to remaster first... Syndicated markets would be most interested in the best episodes and would pay more to air those first... so we could be 5+ years from whenever they would decide to start work before they could even think of releasing season sets in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

It did for TOS, and if they did say a season or two a year (instead of rushing them all out at once) it wouldn't bust their bank. Syndicate it & put it on SyFy HD.

Season sets would be released on BD in 2012 to coincide with the film sequel.

In order to release season sets... they would have to start with season 1 and go from there... which would mean they would be releasing less popular episodes first, but sinking the same up-front money... and we all know how many people wait for box series sets these days OR until all the sets are out before buying the first season.

That's a HUGE risk in this economy to put all that remastering work and money into something that might not pay off until 5+ years after you begin the work.

IF they had money to burn and in a better economy, I'd say go for it... but with all the work and expense involved to make it worth an HD conversion for these... I am not going to hold my breath.
ScottHD's Avatar ScottHD
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If they could bring this to reality, IT.. WOULD.. BE... AWESOME!
MovieSwede's Avatar MovieSwede
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

The remastering of the episodes wasn't done exactly in season airing order... as I believe they were remastering the more popular episodes first... which would have meant that without Toshiba helping on the HD DVD costs, the studio stood to make more money in syndication by remastering all of the most popular episodes before going back and touching the less popular ones... which would mean season set releases would likely have had to wait until ALL episodes were remastered.

Remastering process was alot further then that when they released TOS.

From wikipedia.

Quote:


The first episode to be released to syndication was "Balance of Terror" on the weekend of September 16, 2006. Episodes were released at the rate of about one a week and broadcast in a 4:3 aspect ratio.

Quote:


On July 26, 2007, CBS Home Entertainment (with distribution by Paramount Home Entertainment) announced that the remastered episodes of TOS would be released on a HD DVD/DVD hybrid format. Season 1 was released on November 20, 2007. Season 2 had been scheduled for release in the summer of 2008, but it was cancelled when Toshiba (which had been helping finance the remastering of the show) pulled out of the HD DVD business.[54] On August 5, 2008, the remastered Season 2 was released on DVD only

I would say that even here have the factual error that Toshiba financed the remastering. Since the remaster started before any deal with Toshiba, and that a BD release could have been released in August 5 2008 if they had wanted to.
dvdmike007's Avatar dvdmike007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Insurrection??? That's the most "cartoony" looking of the TNG films!

First Contact had plenty of CG ships, mixed with models. You can't tell because it's GREAT CG.

I am well aware that FC had cgi, Insurrection has fantastic work.
Watch the scene with the smoke coming from the nacells
Mr.D's Avatar Mr.D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Insurrection??? That's the most "cartoony" looking of the TNG films!

+1 A lot of it is terrible.


First Contact had plenty of CG ships, mixed with models. You can't tell because it's GREAT CG.[/quote]
Some of its great , some of it isn't ( the matte painting of Earth is truly dire looks like a weather graphic)

There should be some rule about the depiction of Earth in film. A bit like not being allowed to deface the image of the Queen or something!
MovieSwede's Avatar MovieSwede
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

There should be some rule about the depiction of Earth in film. A bit like not being allowed to deface the image of the Queen or something!

We should be careful about rules. Because otherwise we would have missed gems like Plan 9 from outer space.
PeterTHX's Avatar PeterTHX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

There should be some rule about the depiction of Earth in film. A bit like not being allowed to deface the image of the Queen or something!

ILM originally had a more "realistic" Earth but the filmmakers wanted audiences to be able to easily pick out the landmasses below.

Even then, they did take satellite photos and "stitch" them together. So it is Earth (not a matte painting)...

In any case, compare it to their Earth in Space Cowboys. Incredible work there.

(Are you referring to the Borg Queen or Elizabeth II BTW?)

Trivia: texture maps for Generations' Veridian III (from orbit) were from a piece of rotted sheet metal.
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman
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Sony went back to the original negatives for Seinfeld and re-transferred them to HD video. They then re-edited each episode in HD.

They spent a lot of money doing it and the show didn't have any special effects except the occasional video green screen composite for when they were driving in a car or something like that. Since the Blu-ray versions haven't been released, I don't know if they re-did the composite mattes in HD or just upconverted.

I'd hate to see what Fox would have to do to get The X-Files ready for HD. Seasons 1-5 were also shot on film and all S/FX and editing was done at NTSC resolution. Starting with Season 6 (after the feature film) they started shooting in 16x9 with an eye towards HD broadcasts... and I believe the special effects were upgraded too.
ti-triodes's Avatar ti-triodes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

As far as consistency of quality, I felt DS9 was the best series. TOS is still my fave and has several episodes that are the best in all TREK but they had their fair share of clunkers. While DS9 only had a few eps that came near the best of TOS, as far as a series? The best imho. I watched all 7 seasons in a row a few years back and had a blast.

But I doubt they will get to DS9.



Agreed. For sheer consistency DS9 was the best next gen series, by far. TNG had too many filler episodes and Voyager was unwatchable most of the time. The war with the Founders gave DS9 a nice story arc that made it fun to watch.

And no, DS9 will never make it to HD.
Bumbuliuz's Avatar Bumbuliuz
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If they will do it properly like CBS did with TOS, I'll gladly buy it no matter the high cost from Paramount.
Daniel Shock's Avatar Daniel Shock
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Maybe moving forward!

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwoc...93.html#050911
Osirus23's Avatar Osirus23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Shock View Post

Maybe moving forward!

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwoc...93.html#050911

Sounds like nothing but hopeful speculation. Netflix is streaming TNG, DS9, and VOY in SD and TOS and ENT in HD. They talk as though it would just involve an "HD film scan" and redone special effects to bring TNG to HD the way TOS was. This is not the case with TNG et al, much more work would be needed than was done with TOS.
Geoff D's Avatar Geoff D
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It's not vastly different to what happened to TOS. That needed the film elements rescanning and the FX redone to effect the HD upgrade. The big thing about TNG is - I'm assuming - the lack of a cut negative. Those elements will take time to locate and catalogue, not to mention the diligent editing needed to reassemble the episodes once the film has been transferred. More donkey work is needed, sure, but once that's out of the way they're on familiar ground.
XxDeadlyxX's Avatar XxDeadlyxX
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Just curious is there any chance that if this is done, that the episodes may be made into 1.78:1 rather than 1.33:1 - ie. have more picture on either side - since they're scanning the original film? I know this was 1.33 on TV back in the day but was it shot in 1.33?
Osirus23's Avatar Osirus23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

Just curious is there any chance that if this is done, that the episodes may be made into 1.78:1 rather than 1.33:1 - ie. have more picture on either side - since they're scanning the original film? I know this was 1.33 on TV back in the day but was it shot in 1.33?

It was shot and framed for 4:3. If it were opened up on the sides from the original film there would likely be problems, might start seeing the edge of the ship sets, etc.

1.33 is OAR anyway.
XxDeadlyxX's Avatar XxDeadlyxX
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post #58 of 2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

It was shot and framed for 4:3. If it were opened up on the sides from the original film there would likely be problems, might start seeing the edge of the ship sets, etc.

1.33 is OAR anyway.

Yeh I think I remember reading somewhere in the earlier discussions about the possibility of this happening that there may be extra picture info in the original 35mm film. A 1.78 TNG with extra pic and with the new FX, new 5.1 sound etc would be really cool (if there were no such issues as you mention). But if it's 1.33 that's cool too. The fact they may be re mastering them alone is a miracle. As long as they don't crop to 1.78.
raoul_duke's Avatar raoul_duke
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CGI set extensions was also in amongst the dozens of rumours.
nick_danger's Avatar nick_danger
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If they can find a way to bring TNG up to TOS's HD glory, I'm sure that I can find a way to open my wallet.
Tags: Blu Ray Movies , Star Trek The Next Generation Motion Picture Collection First Contact Generations Insurrection Nemes

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