Star Trek TNG Seasons Remastered on Blu-Ray - Page 20 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #571 of 2440 Old 10-03-2011, 11:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Maxwell Everett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

No to everything.... in a nutshell.

And your point would be what ? Just because there are some other films out there that you think have worse VFX you are using that to refute that the vfx in Nemesis handled by DD are better than the previous films?

Whoa, whoa... hold up. You're inferring a statement that I didn't make. I never said anything about the VFX in Nemesis. But I suppose I might as well now.

They are perhaps technically superior by virtue of the fact that Nemesis came along nearly a decade after one of the films you're criticizing -- on the shoulders of giants and all that. I was just responding to your opinion that the VFX in Generations and First Contact were, "about the worst work ILM have done." I happen to not share that opinion, hence my examples.
Maxwell Everett is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #572 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 12:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostface1701 View Post

Hm, personally, I found the 3 minute battle scene in First Contact (especially the 20-second final barrage) to be more exciting than anything in Nemesis. To each his own...

Its quite poorly executed though. The scaling speed and lighting on the ships is very arbitrary and there is no real sense of space with regard to the blocking its just a bunch of ships zipping about and dumped into the frame on a shot by shot basis. No real sense of place. ( also has the worst matte painting of the earth I've ever seen...looks like some graphic from the weather channel). I actually think Generations is better from a VFX standpoint than FC.

Star Trek and Nemesis have much better blocked out shots that make much more consistent sense spacially and much more attention paid to making it look as if the action was actually in front of and photographed by a real camera whch is the goal of good vfx. Very highly crafted shots from DD on Nemesis.

Insurrection is frankly dire from a VFX perspective , I can't think of a well executed shot in the entire film....very very second rate ; ILM didn't do this one though.

digital film janitor
Mr.D is offline  
post #573 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 12:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
XxDeadlyxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 737
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

Its quite poorly executed though. The scaling speed and lighting on the ships is very arbitrary and there is no real sense of space with regard to the blocking its just a bunch of ships zipping about and dumped into the frame on a shot by shot basis. No real sense of place. ( also has the worst matte painting of the earth I've ever seen...looks like some graphic from the weather channel). I actually think Generations is better from a VFX standpoint than FC.

Star Trek and Nemesis have much better blocked out shots that make much more consistent sense spacially and much more attention paid to making it look as if the action was actually in front of and photographed by a real camera whch is the goal of good vfx. Very highly crafted shots from DD on Nemesis.

Insurrection is frankly dire from a VFX perspective , I can't think of a well executed shot in the entire film....very very second rate ; ILM didn't do this one though.

Yeh the effects in Insurrection were definitely the worst of the lot - some of those Son'a ships look more like something out of a videogame than a film - they lack detail and look very bland - particularly that Collector ship.

The ships in Freespace 2 had more detail

God I loved that game - from around the same time (late '90s) - I wish there was a sequel
XxDeadlyxX is offline  
post #574 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 02:10 AM
Member
 
DragonQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostface1701 View Post

Hm, personally, I found the 3 minute battle scene in First Contact (especially the 20-second final barrage) to be more exciting than anything in Nemesis. To each his own...

Maybe it's because the Millennium Falcon helped out?
DragonQ is offline  
post #575 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 05:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nick_danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post

Maybe it's because the Millennium Falcon helped out?

Most definitely. Also, the Defiant piloted by Worf.
nick_danger is offline  
post #576 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 12:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 19,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

I did not say Nemesis was a better FILM than the others, I said it is the best in terms of space battles. ie. the long 20-30 minute fight at the end.

What other Trek movie has anything remotely as good?

The climax of Nemesis is just a carbon copy of the climax of Wrath of Khan.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is offline  
post #577 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Had Nemesis kept it's original ending it would have been a great film.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #578 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 12:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Osirus23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The climax of Nemesis is just a carbon copy of the climax of Wrath of Khan.

And the fight inside the nebula was as well, combined with elements from Undiscovered Country.
Osirus23 is offline  
post #579 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 03:01 PM
Newbie
 
Philzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

Most definitely. Also, the Defiant piloted by Worf.

Commanded by Worf, he wasn't the pilot.
Philzilla is offline  
post #580 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 05:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nick_danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philzilla View Post

Commanded by Worf, he wasn't the pilot.

Really? LOL
nick_danger is offline  
post #581 of 2440 Old 10-04-2011, 06:15 PM
Newbie
 
ZGibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

Really? LOL

Really, the pilot was Adam Scott.
ZGibbs is offline  
post #582 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 01:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

And I have to say that the VFX work done on the TNG films is about the worst work ILM have done). DD did a much better job on nemesis; unfortunately the film was bleurgh.

You're kidding, right? GENERATIONS and FIRST CONTACT's FX work were top notch. The miniature work is outstanding and the CG seamless.

Digital Domain's work in NEMESIS was a step above INSURRECTION.

Smoke trails for the warp effect. Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

Plus Nemesis had FAR better space battles than any of the other Treks - Star Trek (2009) was terrible in that regard IMO. I hope the sequel is better.

NEMESIS did the impossible: it made a Star Trek space battle *boring*. Not only that, the Scimitar was so ridiculously overpowered: it takes out 2 giant new model Romulan warbirds in seconds and gets hit with a quantum torpedo volley that would destroy a Borg Sphere...yet that only takes out the cloaking ability. Stupid, stupid writing.

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #583 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 01:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

also has the worst matte painting of the earth I've ever seen...looks like some graphic from the weather channel

You do know it was satellite photos wrapped on a sphere model, right?

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
post #584 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 09:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deviation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
Posts: 2,780
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Had Nemesis kept it's original ending it would have been a great film.

It would have also helped if they had filmed the entire script and released it as a director's cut.
Deviation is offline  
post #585 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 09:39 AM
Member
 
DragonQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Digital Domain's work in NEMESIS was a step above INSURRECTION.

Smoke trails for the warp effect. Please.

Although it does seem a bit silly, I think the warp effect used in Nemesis is my favourite from the whole Trek saga, except for Star Trek (2009). Voyager's is probably third place.
DragonQ is offline  
post #586 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 11:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 19,928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 View Post

And the fight inside the nebula was as well, combined with elements from Undiscovered Country.

The battle in the nebula is what I was referring to, though I suppose that "climax" could also be read to mean the sacrifice of a certain emotionless character.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is offline  
post #587 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 01:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jblank74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bristol, Tennessee
Posts: 2,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

I like Nemesis

Heck, I love it. It's one of the three best Star Trek films imo.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

Carl Sagan (1980)

jblank74 is online now  
post #588 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 03:00 PM
 
TyrantII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 832
LOL @ this thread.

Don't get trolled guys.
TyrantII is offline  
post #589 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 04:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Matt_Stevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Talk about off topic.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
Matt_Stevens is offline  
post #590 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 04:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gorthocar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 21
We're all Trek fans here, and some tangent Trek conversations are inevitable, but let's try to not stray too far from topic.

Other than watching TNG on BD, there is one other thing that I'm looking forward to. I can virtually guarantee that there will be some kind of reference to TNG BD on The Big Bang Theory, and I'm sure that Wil Wheaton will make another guest appearance as Sheldon's nemesis.

Bazinga!

gorthocar is offline  
post #591 of 2440 Old 10-05-2011, 05:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Savageone79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Carbondale IL
Posts: 2,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Not straying from the topic ? I think you just did that one paragraph after saying not to lol :-)
Savageone79 is offline  
post #592 of 2440 Old 10-06-2011, 02:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

You do know it was satellite photos wrapped on a sphere model, right?

So what ? The process is irrelevant . All that matters is if it works on screen and its very far from succesful. Flat as a pancake.

digital film janitor
Mr.D is offline  
post #593 of 2440 Old 10-06-2011, 08:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HDMe2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kittrell, NC
Posts: 5,174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

So what ? The process is irrelevant . All that matters is if it works on screen and its very far from succesful. Flat as a pancake.

I think the point was... you declared it "the worst matte painting" you had ever seen... and if it wasn't a matte painting, your statement was kind of invalidated.

It's a different argument if you want to argue that it was poor F/X... but you can't argue it was a poor matte painting if it wasn't a matte painting.

Yeah baby!  It's Halloween!
HDMe2 is offline  
post #594 of 2440 Old 10-06-2011, 09:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pcweber111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In a van, down by the river.
Posts: 3,560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

Really? LOL

Don't get it wrong and you won't be corrected.
pcweber111 is offline  
post #595 of 2440 Old 10-06-2011, 09:43 PM
 
TyrantII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

I think the point was... you declared it "the worst matte painting" you had ever seen... and if it wasn't a matte painting, your statement was kind of invalidated.

It's a different argument if you want to argue that it was poor F/X... but you can't argue it was a poor matte painting if it wasn't a matte painting.

Tis is teh worstest CGI evah!



We really got to go through this again (and next time)?
TyrantII is offline  
post #596 of 2440 Old 10-06-2011, 11:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

I think the point was... you declared it "the worst matte painting" you had ever seen... and if it wasn't a matte painting, your statement was kind of invalidated.

It's a different argument if you want to argue that it was poor F/X... but you can't argue it was a poor matte painting if it wasn't a matte painting.

It is a matte painting, Matte paintings are normally constructed from other photographic reference , its not just painted up from scratch. This is standard practice . You are splitting hairs about terminology and processes you are not directly familiar with.

Its awful and its a matte painting and it most definitely is the worst matte painting of the earth I've ever seen in a mainstream hollywood film.

digital film janitor
Mr.D is offline  
post #597 of 2440 Old 10-07-2011, 04:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nick_danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGibbs View Post

Really, the pilot was Adam Scott.

While captains may not always directly maneuver their vessels, it is common for a the word "pilot" to be used as a verb when describing the captain or officer in command. In this instance, Worf. I wasn't referring to the person sitting at the Conn.

So anyway, I really want this sampler in my player right now.
nick_danger is offline  
post #598 of 2440 Old 10-07-2011, 06:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Matman1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

We're all Trek fans here, and some tangent Trek conversations are inevitable, but let's try to not stray too far from topic.

Other than watching TNG on BD, there is one other thing that I'm looking forward to. I can virtually guarantee that there will be some kind of reference to TNG BD on The Big Bang Theory, and I'm sure that Wil Wheaton will make another guest appearance as Sheldon's nemesis.


This thread is starting to read like the script of Big Bang Theory....

__________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagzjagz
Holy smokes. A simple question turned into a buck wild display of thoughts, gazillion graphs, multiple interpretations, philosophies, and overall mayhem!!
Matman1970 is offline  
post #599 of 2440 Old 10-07-2011, 07:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matman1970 View Post

This thread is starting to read like the script of Big Bang Theory....

Na, not really. If it were like a big bang theory script someone would point out a flaw in your idea.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
MovieSwede is offline  
post #600 of 2440 Old 10-07-2011, 09:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PeterTHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

Its awful and its a matte painting and it most definitely is the worst matte painting of the earth I've ever seen in a mainstream hollywood film.

It's not a matte painting. Earth in Star Trek III, IV, and VI was.
In First Contact it's a digital model. Now are you going to argue that the digital starships are "matte paintings" because they're texture mapped?

And it looks the way it looks because the producers had ILM remove the clouds and other features so the audience could clearly outline the landmasses. It's not ILM's fault. Look at their work on Earth a few years later in Space Cowboys. That's how Earth was going to look.

Trivia: The Genesis Planet in Star Trek III was not a painting: it was a model!

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
PeterTHX is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Software

Tags
Blu Ray Movies , Star Trek The Next Generation Motion Picture Collection First Contact Generations Insurrection Nemes

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off