Star Trek TNG Seasons Remastered on Blu-Ray - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

PQ issues noted here also
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Trek-The-Next-Generation-Season-2-Blu-ray/44210/#Review
Screenshots look icky. Clumpy texture and edge enhancement, not good.
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post #2162 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 06:06 PM
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If you really want to appreciate the Blu-ray efforts. All you have to do is watch one episode off of Blu (doesn't matter which), and then put in the old DVD of the same episode. Afterwards, I doubt you would ever complain about the Blu again.

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post #2163 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

If you really want to appreciate the Blu-ray efforts. All you have to do is watch one episode off of Blu (doesn't matter which), and then put in the old DVD of the same episode. Afterwards, I doubt you would ever complain about the Blu again.

While I appreciate the monster effort needed in getting this done in HD, I don't appreciate corners cut at the last second. Especially seeing as these will now be the masters from here until the mayan apocalypse. I was worried when I heard CBS was going to involve another studio independently, and this seems to confirm my fears. Hell, I even made a comment about the season 2 trailer that something was off, and was assured it was just because it was "early". We have a barometer already in the sampler, and season 1 that needs to be maintained, now that CBS has decided they're doing this. DVD's be damned.

I mean, really? http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/review20.jpg
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post #2164 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BoogerBomb View Post

I wouldnt be surprised if the severe nitpickiness ends this whole project after season two.

CBS made a killing on season 1, even with the audio issues. They were very pleased, so much so they've hinted at DS9, and announced ENT.

They need to do right by their fans and the show and make sure not to cut corners, and to future proof the work now. If they're not going to hold the line against QA, the fans should raise hell to hold their feet to the fire. There's already been a slight dip in quality from the sampler because they crammed a whole season and extras on only 5 discs. Now there's sloppiness with all the VFX shots. Sounds like Season 3 will be back to where it should be, but what about 4 & 6 if this studio keeps on keeping.

You're really fine with a set that swings widely from season to season because of the other studio involved in the restoration?

Edit: Didn't make this connection before, HTV-Illuminate was apparently responsible for the Patton fiasco, which FOX then had to go back and recommission a new restoration. Gulp...
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post #2165 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Edit: Didn't make this connection before, HTV-Illuminate was apparently responsible for the Patton fiasco, which FOX then had to go back and recommission a new restoration. Gulp...
Yep and what makes it a bit more sad is that HTV is where Dan Curry who was one of the two VFX supervisors on TNG now works... So he should really know better...
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post #2166 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 08:35 PM
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Forgive me, I am new here. But what is wrong with the new blue ray release of STTNG that would cause my Trekkie friend to yell at me if I bought it for him ?
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post #2167 of 2438 Old 11-28-2012, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post

Forgive me, I am new here. But what is wrong with the new blue ray release of STTNG that would cause my Trekkie friend to yell at me if I bought it for him ?
It's a bit complicated. Season 1 is pretty great, Season 2 is hit or miss because of farming out the remastering to a different company. However, I sincerely doubt anyone would yell at you for gifting it. Season 2 is still a huge upgrade over the DVD version.
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post #2168 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 08:36 AM
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If any friend yells at you for giving him a gift... find a new friend.
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post #2169 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post

Yep and what makes it a bit more sad is that HTV is where Dan Curry who was one of the two VFX supervisors on TNG now works... So he should really know better...

Not only Patton, but also Out of Africa, Tora Tora Tora, The French Connection, Back to the Future, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, The Phantom Menace, American Graffiti, Scarface, Spartacus. Sense a pattern there?

http://www.htvinc.com/content/content.php?content=Awards%20and%20Acknowledgments&subchoice=credit-list&subnav=about-htv&hx=2050

Unless something is done to improve the quality of work from HTV (or take the work away from them), seasons 4 and 6 are going to look like crap while seasons 3, 5, and 7 will have polish. But based on their track record, they don't deserve to work on this. They're hacks.

Imagine, Best of Both Worlds Part I will look great, and then you'll switch to Part II, and the visual effects will take a huge nosedive. The quality is pretty much Star Trek V-bad.
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post #2170 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbotron View Post

Not only Patton, but also Out of Africa, Tora Tora Tora, The French Connection, Back to the Future, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, The Phantom Menace, American Graffiti, Scarface, Spartacus. Sense a pattern there?
http://www.htvinc.com/content/content.php?content=Awards%20and%20Acknowledgments&subchoice=credit-list&subnav=about-htv&hx=2050
Unless something is done to improve the quality of work from HTV (or take the work away from them), seasons 4 and 6 are going to look like crap while seasons 3, 5, and 7 will have polish. But based on their track record, they don't deserve to work on this. They're hacks.
Imagine, Best of Both Worlds Part I will look great, and then you'll switch to Part II, and the visual effects will take a huge nosedive. The quality is pretty much Star Trek V-bad.

Bloody hell, that list of credits reads like a rap sheet compiled by the DNR police. Funny how Patton is listed twice in the restoration credits, it's either a typo or Fox went back to them and said 'try again'. biggrin.gif
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post #2171 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 02:50 PM
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They apparently have a trademarked DNR tool "iGR™ - Illuminate Grain Reduction." Of all the wasted trademarks...
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post #2172 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 03:58 PM
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LOL. Award winning detail removal! If we can't make 1080p look like 720p through smudge filters, no one can! May as well get your suits tailored at the butcher shop.
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post #2173 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

I mean, really? http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s2review/review20.jpg

I won't argue that this shot doesn't appear to be somewhat de-grained -- it definitely does. In fact, most shots that have a visual effect in them in Season Two appear to be de-grained a bit before the effect was added. But I don't think Wesley would have appeared sharp even in the original scan, because he's not the focus of the shot -- the transporter pad is... where the Salia effect was added. Wesley walks into that position after stepping off the pad and turns around to look back at her. And of course, the effect calls for an amorphous look for Salia. So it's kind of a perfect storm of issues, removing any place in the shot that could look razor sharp.

But I have seen this shot in motion and it looks fine in context.
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post #2174 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post

Forgive me, I am new here. But what is wrong with the new blue ray release of STTNG that would cause my Trekkie friend to yell at me if I bought it for him ?

Probably not much, as it will be a huge upgrade over DVD. AVS friends? Quite a bit!

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Originally Posted by Maxwell Everett View Post

I won't argue that this shot doesn't appear to be somewhat de-grained -- it definitely does. In fact, most shots that have a visual effect in them in Season Two appear to be de-grained a bit before the effect was added. But I don't think Wesley would have appeared sharp even in the original scan, because he's not the focus of the shot -- the transporter pad is... where the Salia effect was added. Wesley walks into that position after stepping off the pad and turns around to look back at her. And of course, the effect calls for an amorphous look for Salia. So it's kind of a perfect storm of issues, removing any place in the shot that could look razor sharp.
But I have seen this shot in motion and it looks fine in context.

Well, I will have to wait and see, but from the still on my HD screen here, I don't even see a hint of film grain left. Almost all the still FX shots look like this, either blury or claymation. This is much worse than the Paramount movie release, much much worse. Luckily it does seem the rest of the live action shots were not butchered, but playdough VFX is sort of disturbing when season 1 was done correctly...

And now we have to worry about season 4 and 6 too. What happens when as mentioned above BOBW1 is reference, and BOBW2 is butchered? Hell, looks like we'll never get a clear shot of the wreckage of Wolf359. frown.gif
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post #2175 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

And now we have to worry about season 4 and 6 too. What happens when as mentioned above BOBW1 is reference, and BOBW2 is butchered? Hell, looks like we'll never get a clear shot of the wreckage of Wolf359. frown.gif

Maybe we don't have to worry.
It seems that CBS-D can do two seasons a year on their own, it's the fact the head honchos at CBS Home Video want all seven seasons out in three years, which means that CBS-D could handle all the remaining seasons. Because HTV did Season 2 it let CBS-D get on to Season 3 in late 2012 (rather than start it in 2013 if they had to do Season 2 as well) so they may already have their accelerated schedule under control *fingers crossed* and have no need for HTV again. A recent interview with the Okudas implies that HTV was only explicitly contracted with for Season 2 and there are no concrete future plans to keep using them.

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/25110212_okudainterviews2p2.html
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TrekCore: Do you know if they’re going to be coming back to help with future seasons?

Denise Okuda: We really don’t know. If they came back, we would be thrilled again. Both the artists and the folks at CBS Digital and HTV, we have a great working relationship. We enjoy the enthusiasm. Mike and I feel so fortunate to be on this project and part of the team.
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post #2176 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Edit: Didn't make this connection before, HTV-Illuminate was apparently responsible for the Patton fiasco, which FOX then had to go back and recommission a new restoration. Gulp...
Wow Wow Wow WOW!!!! How in the hell do they get any work after that mess? Not only did Robert Harris publicly slam it, but numerous directors in Hollywood told FOX they needed to fix it. It was a complete fiasco.

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post #2177 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 11:48 PM
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Interesting to see that they *weren't* responsible for Predator (according to that list anyway... just Predator 2).
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post #2178 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 11:52 PM
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I just came back from the season 2 screening. Overall.....meh.

This particular shot done in HD looks awwwwwwwwwful



You'll know it when you see it. The DNR is up to 11, and the matte lines around Picard and Maddox's heads are so bad, it cuts off some of them. From the other screenshots, I can conclude with this: If it's live action and has an effect element or blue-screen element, expect heavy DNR.

The trailer for season 3 was incredible. Looking at the pale, gray, squished Enterprise for 2 hours, and then seeing it the way it should in the trailer, it just shows how unsatisfactory HTV was.
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post #2179 of 2438 Old 11-29-2012, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SpHeRe31459 View Post

Maybe we don't have to worry.
It seems that CBS-D can do two seasons a year on their own, it's the fact the head honchos at CBS Home Video want all seven seasons out in three years, which means that CBS-D could handle all the remaining seasons. Because HTV did Season 2 it let CBS-D get on to Season 3 in late 2012 (rather than start it in 2013 if they had to do Season 2 as well) so they may already have their accelerated schedule under control *fingers crossed* and have no need for HTV again. A recent interview with the Okudas implies that HTV was only explicitly contracted with for Season 2 and there are no concrete future plans to keep using them.
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/25110212_okudainterviews2p2.html

It says "multiple seasons" in the htvinc link, though.
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post #2180 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 01:01 AM
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If it's as bad as the internet suggests, then I expect CBS are going to get a LOT of e-mails from angry Star Trek fans very shortly (if not already).

Makes you wonder why they wouldn't vet the stuff that comes back from HTV-I more carefully... I mean, they know what Star Trek fans are like, right?

Or maybe they're banking that all the fans will still lap it up no matter what...
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post #2181 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DJ Mike TJG View Post

If it's as bad as the internet suggests, then I expect CBS are going to get a LOT of e-mails from angry Star Trek fans very shortly (if not already).

Oh, it is. It is as bad as it suggests. Get a load of this gem:

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/392/3853/original.jpg
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post #2182 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
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Oh, it is. It is as bad as it suggests. Get a load of this gem:
http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/392/3853/original.jpg

Really... wtf. I'm not the kind of guy that normally gets all worked up over pre-release screen caps because sometimes you don't get the whole picture (pardon the pun) unless you see the release in motion on your own setup. But this is really shaping up to be a gigantically screwed up release that already appears to make the audio issues on Season 1 pale into insignificance.

I dunno, maybe CBS' marketing strategy is to get people to buy apparent work-in-progress season sets and send the consumer finalized discs in the mail at a later date?
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post #2183 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by jimbotron View Post

Oh, it is. It is as bad as it suggests. Get a load of this gem:
http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/392/3853/original.jpg
Man, I thought it was just one scene. Didn't realize this was a recurring thing. This work is just completely unprofessional.
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post #2184 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 11:17 AM
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TrekCore is now confirming that HTV will not be involved in season 4:

http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/29112012_fxguide.html
Quote:
It's important to clarify that while CBS-Digital are indeed working on the conform for Season 4, the visual effects portion is being done by another house (however we can confirm that Season 2 post-house HTV are not involved). Season 3 - as we've mentioned previously - is being handled fully in-house at CBS-Digital.

So, pretty good news, I guess. They still seem to have not learned their lesson though. Outsourcing the effects work again just means that CBS is acknowledging that HTV was a bad idea, but that there's no inherent problem with outsourcing.
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post #2185 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 04:28 PM
 
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I'd say it's mixed news. Hopefully this means CBS will also be doing the recompositing of the shots film elements, THEN sending them over for the digital VFX. At least then it seems they wouldn't have to worry about sub-par work on the actual original visual elements.

I won't buying this season full price unless they revisit it later and do it right. Otherwise it's waiting for the bargain bin. As for HTV, how the hell are they still in business wit their track record? Curry needs to get out of there pronto, he's too good for that shoddy studio. Someone get Probert on the phone!
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Oh, it is. It is as bad as it suggests. Get a load of this gem:
http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/392/3853/original.jpg



Sad that people will still buy this stuff, just because it's something new. Work like this is very, very subpar and degrading to the source material. People really should be outraged, as maybe then CBS will do right by it and fix it.
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post #2187 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 05:07 PM
 
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More and more scenes are popping up with misaligned light passes, misaligned film elements, ect. Even "Q Who" seems to have VFX errors, like really weird matte lines, which really should NOT be there in the age of digital editing. This is going from bad to worse it seems...





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post #2188 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
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Ugh. Seriously, CBS needs to just cancel the 2nd season Blu-Ray set and re-do the process so it can be released next to season 3. For them to release the 2nd season as it is now would be a punch in the face to everyone who bought the first season.
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post #2189 of 2438 Old 11-30-2012, 08:51 PM
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I went to the season 2 screening last night and I enjoyed it greatly especially the extended version of measure of a man but it did seem that in some parts something was not quite right. One thing that made this such a fun experience is when they were showing the cast interview parts the audience cracked up because Patrick Stewart was talking about a letter he received from a Sgt in the Las Vegas police department about how truly terrible things are and how watching star trek makes him think things will be better in the future. What was so funny is that we were watching this in a local theater in Las Vegas.

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post #2190 of 2438 Old 12-01-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

More and more scenes are popping up with misaligned light passes, misaligned film elements, ect. Even "Q Who" seems to have VFX errors, like really weird matte lines, which really should NOT be there in the age of digital editing. This is going from bad to worse it seems...

I'm wondering if it's artifacts from being downconverted from 30fps to 24fps. It would be easy to screw up multiple passes where they no longer quite line up anymore.
Remember Legato shot 24fps VFX film elements, Curry 30fps: all his shots would need to be downconverted.

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