Star Trek TNG Seasons Remastered on Blu-Ray - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2438 Old 08-13-2010, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I know there is a locked thread on this subject that turned into a reboot movie vs. this and that, but there is some new info over at trekmoive.com and at digitalbits.com
It looks like this is going to happen, but its unclear what we will get. I really can't see Paramount/CBS spending the money to properly remaster the show for HD. I think anything will be better than the DVD sets we currently have because they look terrible on anything larger than 42" screen. I bet we will see something like the the original 35mm film frames scanned in HD and the original effects added back in and upconverted from SD to HD. If done right maybe it will blend in, I don't know. I just can't see them shooting all new CGI effects for every show across seven seasons.

I really want to see this on Blu-Ray, TNG is my favorite.
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post #2 of 2438 Old 08-13-2010, 09:05 PM
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cool but it's gonna be a real jolt when they switch to the old fx. they look crappy as hell.
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post #3 of 2438 Old 08-13-2010, 09:24 PM
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they can't "remake" the original effects without completely redoing them, there are 2 options:
1. spend the money and redo them like tos.
2. upconvert the effects sequences and just throw them between the newly scanned scenes.

By the way, was tng framed for 4:3 / are there going to be issues with 16:9?
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post #4 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevestevenson View Post

they can't "remake" the original effects without completely redoing them, there are 2 options:
1. spend the money and redo them like tos.
2. upconvert the effects sequences and just throw them between the newly scanned scenes.

By the way, was tng framed for 4:3 / are there going to be issues with 16:9?

There is a 3rd option, believe it or not. The space-based, miniature shots and all the respective motion control "camera passes" were filmed on 35mm as well and could (at even greater expense) be scanned and re-comped. But they are more likely to use both of your options like they did on the TOS sets and let the viewer switch back and forth.

To your question, the show was framed for 4:3 but there WAS additional (unintentional) picture information that was exposed on the negatives. They followed the SMPTE recommended practice at the time and shot "open matte" and when the telecine to video was done, a 1.33:1 TV Transmitted Area was extracted and the rest of the exposed image was ignored.

http://www.panavision.com/aspect_ratio.php
This image is from Panavision's website -- they used the 5th one down (in the 35mm group, labeled "1.33:1") to film TNG.

A comparison and a "preview" of TNG Remastered
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post #5 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason One View Post

This is stupid.

You're right, there is something stupid here, but it's not this. It's the idea that Paramount is involved. Paramount owns the film rights, the television rights rest with Viacom/CBS (Paramount just distributes the final product).

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Paramount should be focusing their time and money on releasing high-quality BDs from material that is already fit for high-def -- namely, films. It would be ridiculous for them to expend all this effort to overhaul TNG when they couldn't even manage proper BDs for the Trek films.

I expect that had CBS/Viacom been involved with the Trek films we'd have gotten a vastly superior product.

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post #6 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 08:28 AM
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Worst thread title ever!!!

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #7 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 08:32 AM
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Way too early to be thinking about.

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post #8 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 08:49 AM
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Personally I would love to see Star Trek TNG, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise all on Blu Ray!
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post #9 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 09:34 AM
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The interesting thing here is that some one thinks that there is good money to be made by putting in all the work to do this. If they think they can make this profitable then it makes me feel good for a whole lot of other titles that don't need any where near the same amount of work that people keep telling us we would never see because a new transfer is just to expensive.
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post #10 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason one View Post

this is stupid.

Paramount should be focusing their time and money on releasing high-quality bds from material that is already fit for high-def -- namely, films. It would be ridiculous for them to expend all this effort to overhaul tng when they couldn't even manage proper bds for the trek films.

+1 was this series even shot on film?
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post #11 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

+1 was this series even shot on film?

It was shot on film, but all of the editing and compositing of the visual effects was done at 480i. They'd literally have to go back and recreate each episode as if they just got done filming it, a lot more work than what went into the TOS Blu-rays.

That's making the big assumption that the original film negatives are in good shape.

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post #12 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 10:11 AM
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Seven seasons is a huge undertaking. If they tackle this, I would hope they'd initially do a "best of" set... maybe 16 classic episodes from across the series. If that's successful, they might see an advantage in doing more. I just hope they wouldn't do Season 1 first, because although I love the show, the initial season was cringe-worthy and I wouldn't buy it.
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post #13 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzer View Post

Seven seasons is a huge undertaking. If they tackle this, I would hope they'd initially do a "best of" set... maybe 16 classic episodes from across the series. If that's successful, they might see an advantage in doing more. I just hope they wouldn't do Season 1 first, because although I love the show, the initial season was cringe-worthy and I wouldn't buy it.

It doesn't really start hitting its stride until Worf fixes his hair.

We have our heading. Here we gooooooo!
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post #14 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzer View Post

Seven seasons is a huge undertaking. If they tackle this, I would hope they'd initially do a "best of" set... maybe 16 classic episodes from across the series. If that's successful, they might see an advantage in doing more. I just hope they wouldn't do Season 1 first, because although I love the show, the initial season was cringe-worthy and I wouldn't buy it.

Ugh, I hate "Best Of" sets. That would be a complete waste of money. Either give me full seasons or nothing at all.
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post #15 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 04:19 PM
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I would be totally for this if they did it right and redid all of the special effects in HD like they did with TOS. If they could do it in 16:9 because they had additional area on the film negative, that would be totally awesome on the scenes with the new effects. It would also be cool if they could start it off with seasons one through three, then do the rest as single seasons so it would give people time to watch quite a bit before moving onto the next season. I agree the first season wasn't the best, but I would still want it, especially if it was included with season 2 and 3. I don't expect it to be cheap though.
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post #16 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 04:30 PM
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I say bring on the full HD rework of the series.
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Movies look their best when they look like movies. More Patton-esque remasters!

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post #17 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorr View Post

I don't expect it to be cheap though.

It's Paramount.. if anyone knows how to ridiculously overprice their TV shows, it's them.

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post #18 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 05:18 PM
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They'll probably just do what they did with the DS9 episode on the TOS season 2 set:

Upconvert the 480i file and glob a bunch of EE on top and call it "HD."

That episode looked horrible.

Paramount uses Trek as their bread 'n' butter franchise, but always does the bare minimum for quality and effort when it comes to the video releases.

And that's even when they ask for over $100 per season on DVD!!!

Even the CGI that CBS did for the classic TOS wasn't exactly top drawer stuff and they had far fewer episodes to do.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #19 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 05:48 PM
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Many TV series made in the 90s and before have poor SD quality unless a lot of work put into the restoration. I rather stick to the DVD edition that has more "natural" look especially the special effects. Once enhanced to the Blu-ray resolution, so many of the low tech/budget special effects look very cheap and fake unless they are redone like the TOS.

Maybe audio will be the only better enhancements on the Blu-ray edition.

With most Star Trek TOS and Next Gen movies poorly restored on the Blu-ray edition, Paramount is probably going to do a quick Blu-ray conversion for the TV series just to sell them at higher price. It will be surprising if the Next Gen is going to look as good as the TOS.
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post #20 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 06:07 PM
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The reason it might be worth it for the studio to redo the entire series in HD is syndication, not Blu-ray. The Blu-rays would naturally follow of course, but I doubt the sales alone would support the costs. But a new syndication package, featuring all-new remastered elements in HD, might command a premium price. That is the consideration for a show like TNG.
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post #21 of 2438 Old 08-14-2010, 08:49 PM
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I'm not sure how many F/X shots per episode vs the original Star Trek there are... or how complicated it would be per episode...

BUT... one thing to consider is that even though TNG had 7 seasons vs TOS only having 3... there were many more episodes per season of the original Trek... so there's only about twice as many actual episodes of TNG.

I don't think it will happen in the current economy, however... TOS only happened because it had already began with some extra assist in funding by Toshiba who wanted to help push HD-DVD as a format... otherwise we might not have TOS in HD and on Blu right now.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for these any time soon.

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post #22 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 01:12 AM
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The films are already out on blu-ray.

I'd love TNG on blu-ray because the DVDs are such poor picture quality, some of the episodes look like they have been mastered from NTSC video tape!
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post #23 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 01:34 AM
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so this this for real ? are they going to rescan the old film masters for HD ?
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post #24 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

It was shot on film, but all of the editing and compositing of the visual effects was done at 480i. They'd literally have to go back and recreate each episode as if they just got done filming it, a lot more work than what went into the TOS Blu-rays.

That's making the big assumption that the original film negatives are in good shape.

What Fox did for Firefly is what will likely happen with this show. Firefly was also shot on film and FX done in 480i, so what you got on the Blu-rays was upconverted 480i FX sequences and everything else scanned from the film in 1080p.
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post #25 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 03:24 AM
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I would buy all the seasons in a heartbeat.

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post #26 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

What Fox did for Firefly is what will likely happen with this show. Firefly was also shot on film and FX done in 480i, so what you got on the Blu-rays was upconverted 480i FX sequences and everything else scanned from the film in 1080p.

The difference is that, even though Firefly's VFX were rendered in SD, the show as a whole was post-produced in HD. Shots without VFX were transfered and edited in the HD realm, and then intercut with upconverted VFX footage.

That isn't the case for Star Trek TNG. That entire series was post-produced in standard definition video. CBS will have to go back to the original camera negatives, retransfer all of the live-action footage, and re-edit from scratch.

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post #27 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

[They] look like they have been mastered from NTSC video tape!

That's just it.. THEY WERE. That's what makes this such a big undertaking. It's not just a remaster that's needed.. it's ALL of the post-production, even the edit.

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post #28 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 09:25 AM
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It does seem unlikely, doesn't it, that CBS would go to all that trouble. OTOH it's a lot cheaper to pay "technicians" than "actors" thus there may be alot of money to be made.

I like what CBS did with Lonesome Dove; of course, there weren't alot of special effects in that now, were there!
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post #29 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 View Post

TOS only happened because it had already began with some extra assist in funding by Toshiba who wanted to help push HD-DVD as a format... otherwise we might not have TOS in HD and on Blu right now.

Toshiba only paid for the authoring & encoding of the HD DVD discs themselves. They had nothing to do with the project proper.

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post #30 of 2438 Old 08-15-2010, 12:12 PM
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The original model work ILM did for Encounter at Farpoint was done on 35mm film. Proof of that is in Star Trek Generations as they recycled a couple shots from the pilot for the movie. In the scheme of things, those model shots were about 50% of all model shots used throughout the show since they recycled those shots so much.

They wouldn't have to use a CG Enterprise as much, but they would still have to recomposite the ship, recreate the starfield and the planets and other spaceships.

The 6-foot Enterprise model looked phenomenal, both in the first three seasons of TNG and in Generations. It would be a pity if they went with a 100% CGI Enterprise if they went ahead and made them for Blu-ray.

If they do go for it, we might even get extended episodes since they have to edit them from scratch.
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