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post #121 of 134 Old 12-21-2012, 11:24 PM
 
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That bad, huh?
I'm not familiar with the look of the film on 35mm, but here's the official line:
"The most demanding and delicate phase of the restoration was without doubt the color correction, working to recreate the sooty and smoky atmosphere of the ‘20s and ‘30s and
the colder, more pallid atmosphere of the late ‘60s. As a reference in this phase, Martin Scorsese’s own positive copy - conserved at MoMA, New York - was fundamental, as were the contributions of numerous people who worked on the original production and lent their experiences and memories of working on Leone’s set to the restoration process."

confused.gif

I don't believe Mr. Scorsese's print was used, because I know what his print looks like - like the one I had. The Warner US Blu-ray is very close to that, color-wise and this new "restoration" is terrible in that regard. All one really has to do is look at any of Mr. Leone's other films - the look in terms of his color preferences is the same on every one. Mr. Leone did not do dreary or pallid, and let's be real - the 1960s were hardly pallid in terms of its op-art colors. There are photographs galore in an Italian book on the film - they all look like the film looks. The one thing Mr. Leone never did was make a dull-looking film.
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post #122 of 134 Old 12-21-2012, 11:49 PM
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I suppose the relevant question is what outfit got to do the home video master from the restoration print/whatever, since I'm still inclined to believe that Scorsese wouldn't screw up the restoration print itself. Maybe we need him to go all Gangs of New York on some folks...

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post #123 of 134 Old 12-22-2012, 11:03 PM
 
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I don't know that Scorsese had much to do with it. After watching the film in its entirety, my guess is they drained the color so that the awful-looking new footage (I mean it looks like a fifth generation dupe of a dupe of a dupe put onto VHS and then transferred to hi-def) would not be so shocking - had they kept the original color timing it would have been so off-putting that people would have vomited on the ground. The new transfer does have an edge on detail from the original Warners Blu, although only in the second half. The detail on the original Blu is decent in the film's first half, but post intermission it's really soft. The new transfer retains whatever detail it has throughout. But this does not look anything like the release prints in terms of color timing - it's just a brown mess with all the wonderful Delli Colli lighting and shadings completely absent (they're all there to see in the original Blu).
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post #124 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 10:14 AM
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I really don't know what to think regarding this extended version. It doesn't sound very positive. I can understand Leone's family wanting to release a more complete version if they felt Leone's vision was compromised, but to do it with such poor looking scenes is somewhat absurd. It's supposed to be a film, not an experiment. And to see the Film Foundation's name on the credits is disconcerting as I've always associated them with quality work. Maybe it's a passion project for Scorsese and he doesn't care about the quality of the new scenes, so long as he does right by Leone's ghost? I don't know.
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post #125 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I really don't know what to think regarding this extended version. It doesn't sound very positive. I can understand Leone's family wanting to release a more complete version if they felt Leone's vision was compromised, but to do it with such poor looking scenes is somewhat absurd. It's supposed to be a film, not an experiment. And to see the Film Foundation's name on the credits is disconcerting as I've always associated them with quality work. Maybe it's a passion project for Scorsese and he doesn't care about the quality of the new scenes, so long as he does right by Leone's ghost? I don't know.

If that is the quality of the footage that that is the quality, its the only copies that exist. ]
I am at at a loss as to what people would have done with it? would you rather never see it?
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post #126 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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If that is the quality of the footage that that is the quality, its the only copies that exist. ]
I am at at a loss as to what people would have done with it? would you rather never see it?

Yes, as sometimes you are, you are at a loss - to understand the point. Mr. Leone would never have allowed such grotesque-looking footage into his beautiful film. If the negative is truly lost (just what IS this restoration from, one wonders) then the additional scenes in grotesque quality should be included as extras and NOT integrated into the film, where they are, at worst, a ruinous experience, and at best off-putting and a distraction, taking you right out of the movie.
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post #127 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 06:56 PM
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The newly added scenes are not from original negative, that material is lost. It is from badly deteriorated positive work prints which were not properly preserved.

here, found the blurb:
"The only materials available were discarded strips of working positives which had been badly preserved. Making this task even more difficult was the fact that the working positives had been printed without particular care, as originally they were part of the working copies which circulated between the assistant editors and sound editors as a work reference. The images in these sequences were ruined, not just by their poor state of preservation, but also through their use as working copies."
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post #128 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

If that is the quality of the footage that that is the quality, its the only copies that exist. ]
I am at at a loss as to what people would have done with it? would you rather never see it?
I would have included the footage as deleted scenes on the disc. Instead, they put together a Frankenstein'd version that sounds more like a curiosity than the definitive version of the film. Leone is gone and this version is more of a speculative assembly of the existing deleted footage. It'd make a great supplement, but is this supposed to be the way the film will be presented in the future? I hope not.
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post #129 of 134 Old 12-23-2012, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shiftyeyes View Post

I would have included the footage as deleted scenes on the disc. Instead, they put together a Frankenstein'd version that sounds more like a curiosity than the definitive version of the film. Leone is gone and this version is more of a speculative assembly of the existing deleted footage. It'd make a great supplement, but is this supposed to be the way the film will be presented in the future? I hope not.

I'm with you. Others in this thread should pay attention and learn. But they don't.
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post #130 of 134 Old 12-24-2012, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

Yes, as sometimes you are, you are at a loss - to understand the point. Mr. Leone would never have allowed such grotesque-looking footage into his beautiful film. If the negative is truly lost (just what IS this restoration from, one wonders) then the additional scenes in grotesque quality should be included as extras and NOT integrated into the film, where they are, at worst, a ruinous experience, and at best off-putting and a distraction, taking you right out of the movie.

Speaking for a dead man you don't know? Interesting
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post #131 of 134 Old 12-24-2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

Yes, as sometimes you are, you are at a loss - to understand the point. Mr. Leone would never have allowed such grotesque-looking footage into his beautiful film. If the negative is truly lost (just what IS this restoration from, one wonders) then the additional scenes in grotesque quality should be included as extras and NOT integrated into the film, where they are, at worst, a ruinous experience, and at best off-putting and a distraction, taking you right out of the movie.
Speaking for a dead man you don't know? Interesting
Funny. Missing footage for LOA is not put back although technically there is no problem now and artistically it would be an asset (and Lean would have liked to put it back) because Lean died before he could approve it. But footage in crap quality that does not fit with the rest of this film is put back because???
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post #132 of 134 Old 12-24-2012, 04:57 AM
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There seem to be two rather different things occurring here.

Generally, working on projects involving old films, there are reconstructions, and there are restorations. Occasionally, the two are performed concurrently, toward a final result that we attempt to make as transparent as possible.

Working in black & white, one has a bit more ease in massaging pieces together, but dealing with both color, as well as contrast and densities, can seal a work's fate, as some things cannot be put back together. Bits and pieces bump into one another.

In this situation, it sounds as if Mr. Leone's opus has been reconstructed, but not restored -- a hugely overused word, mostly for marketing purposes. If that is the case, and this is a reconstruction, it should be noted as such. Reconstructions are honorable works. Best to have probably begun with WB's HD master, and added the bits and pieces as they were, possibly faded and worn. The additions would then be obvious, and the point of the effort made. Quality footage is best not degraded.

In certain cases, where the necessary points of quality cannot be attained, some projects are best released on video, and not for theatrical dissemination.

This sounds like an interesting project, but if I'm understanding the background properly, might best have been reconstructed, with no intent of restorative efforts. Sometimes things are best left as found. As someone with great respect for the film, I look forward to seeing a reconstruction, but not a restoration.

RAH
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post #133 of 134 Old 12-26-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftyeyes View Post

I would have included the footage as deleted scenes on the disc. Instead, they put together a Frankenstein'd version that sounds more like a curiosity than the definitive version of the film. Leone is gone and this version is more of a speculative assembly of the existing deleted footage. It'd make a great supplement, but is this supposed to be the way the film will be presented in the future? I hope not.

Ibid, yea!

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post #134 of 134 Old 08-19-2013, 05:59 PM
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i'll throw caps-a-holic.com in too the mix (8-11-13)!
WTFilm!!!
Sure this isn't anywhere near a blockbuster; butt doesn't anyone care bout art?!?!

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