Back to the Future BD vs HDTV Comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Just the first flick to get us started.

Don't have the Canal+ cap to hand, but the WOWOW airing is the same "old" transfer and is a higher bitrate anyway

BD | HDTV
















Didn't start out too bad when I was watching (hey, there was still grain at least), then just rapidly deteriorated as the flick went on. The old transfer is hardly a shining beacon of excellence but it's pretty obvious a better job could have been done on Universal's part.

BTTF2

BD | HDTV

















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post #2 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 06:13 AM
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Everyone loves artificial sharpening and DNR...
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post #3 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 08:35 AM
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"Our technicians just recently gave me some data on this. For the first film we required 147 hours to master it; the restoration process with dirt removal and color re-polishing took 420 hours."
If it takes Universal's technicians almost 24 straight days of work to do THIS I'd seriously reconsider their continued employment
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post #4 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

"Our technicians just recently gave me some data on this. For the first film we required 147 hours to master it; the restoration process with dirt removal and color re-polishing took 420 hours."
If it takes Universal's technicians almost 24 straight days of work to do THIS I'd seriously reconsider their continued employment

C'mon now... Applying DNR and Sharpening is no easy task... it takes time ...especially when you consider there are over 150,000 frames per movie...

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post #5 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 08:42 AM
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LOL. In the shot of the mall, even the diffuse lighting is sharpened.
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post #6 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

C'mon now... Applying DNR and Sharpening is no easy task... it takes time ...especially when you consider there are over 150,000 frames per movie...

Also, don't forget that we haven't actually seen the discs and that these are only single frames! The DNR and sharpening could magically disappear when the picture is in motion! We're slandering Universal's work by judging actual frames of it!
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post #7 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 08:57 AM
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Yah, individual screenshots say nothing about how a movie looks. A film is made up of up to 200,000 frames, sometimes more. We can't judge from screenshots what a disc looks like.

It's an 80s movie. They had poor film stock in the 80s. Back To The Future will never look like Toy Story. Let's also not forget all the optically composited special effects. We're just seeing how bad they look now that we have this in Blu-ray.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #8 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 09:46 AM
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Indeed. Remember that absolutely everything in every 80s movie ever was rotoscoped, bluescreened, matte painted and stop motion, and nothing whatsoever shot on actual locations or sets. That's how they made every movie back in the 1980s. Opticals and composites for every single shot.

So what we're seeing now are just matte lines, not EE at all.

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post #9 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviation View Post

Also, don't forget that we haven't actually seen the discs and that these are only single frames! The DNR and sharpening could magically disappear when the picture is in motion! We're slandering Universal's work by judging actual frames of it!

Well you may not know this, but Universal managed to sneak something in to the BD 2.0 profile. When it detects that someone is attempting to take a screenshot, it automatically applies DNR and sharpening to the frames. In a way it's like copy protection. The screenshot is then tagged so that it has the ability to know who viewed it (ip address)... When it's viewed, it uploads information to Uni so that when they detect playback by someone who has viewed the screenshot (bd live baby!), it applies the same digitial manipulation during playback. Let this be a lesson to everyone who decides to look at these things... For everyone else, no digital manipulation applied... So remember... Universal is watching...

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post #10 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 10:05 AM
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Back To The Force-fields.

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post #11 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 10:18 AM
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Too bad really Universal couldn't just do a 4K scan of the titles instead of edge enhancing these movies. When you do a 4K scan you don't need to artificially sharpen anything or use DNR if the scan was taken from the OCN. These titles really deserved it.
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post #12 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 10:30 AM
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Yep! The HDTV caps have more grain structure. Someone at the studio actually thought they did us a favour by artificially sharpening the Blu-Ray.
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post #13 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 12:11 PM
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This excuse didn't work 3 years ago, and it still doesn't today

Um.... I don't want to speak for sharkcohen, but, I think his post was ironical
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post #14 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 01:01 PM
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It's pretty sad when an HDTV stream can actually look better than the Blu-ray counterpart.

Wow. I think I'll have to buy this trilogy pack when the price is around $20-25.

EE seems to be an issue in every frame according to the screenshots (though, nothing extremely major). DNR also seems to be a minor issue, and is more inconsistent from what I'm seeing.

Both of these abnormality effects combined makes for a rather overly processed image to some degree. No, it's nothing major. No, it's not going to effect everyone. However, the simple fact remains that it shouldn't be there in the first place, it SHOULD in theory look BETTER than the HDTV rips, but in reality it looks worse. In context of what it COULD have been, this is a failed attempt. In context of how "bad" it really is, it's nothing on the level of Predator UHE or some other Universal movies, so it can at-least still be enjoyed. It just should be heavily discounted.

$8 a pop is what I would give for each movie given the quality of the images. They should have been better.
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post #15 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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I hate that people are not up in arms for these movies as they were for Gladiator, I love Scott but in no way is Gladiator more important than BTTF
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post #16 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 03:40 PM
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After looking at those caps, the sharpening actually seems far worse than what I saw in the theater today. I suspect there was additional tinkering done to the video for the Bluray. Sad, really. At least it does make picking these up later down the road more bearable after seeing the screens. I certainly won't be shelling out $50 now. Hopefully someone will throw out some Black Friday deals or something.

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post #17 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 03:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brad View Post

After looking at those caps, the sharpening actually seems far worse than what I saw in the theater today. I suspect there was additional tinkering done to the video for the Bluray. Sad, really. At least it does make picking these up later down the road more bearable after seeing the screens. I certainly won't be shelling out $50 now. Hopefully someone will throw out some Black Friday deals or something.

I saw it in the digital print I saw, and posted to that effect at the time.
The drop in rez does heighten it tho
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post #18 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenUK View Post

Everyone loves artificial sharpening and DNR...

Yes, the majority of the general public likes it because it makes the picture pop on their HDTV's.

I had non AV enthusists took at those captures and they all preferred the blu-ray over the HDTV.
You know why?
Because they said the HDTV broadcast looks blurry and lacks detail compared to the blu-ray.

The studios are feeding the general public what they want and to continue the general public adoption of blu-ray, I can see more mastering of this type in upcoming catalog releases.

It's an up hill battle for hardcore enthusists that are in the minority.

2014
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post #19 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 04:32 PM
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Totally amateur, QC people should be fired.
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post #20 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 04:37 PM
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Why all the positive "professional" reviews when the screenshots show obvious problems?
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post #21 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 04:57 PM
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I'm keeping my HD-DVD copy.
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post #22 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 05:00 PM
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I'm keeping my HD-DVD copy.

?
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post #23 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

"Our technicians just recently gave me some data on this. For the first film we required 147 hours to master it; the restoration process with dirt removal and color re-polishing took 420 hours."

So again they go out of their way to make it look worse. Buttheads.

I remember years ago there was a screening in Hollywood of a brand new fine grained print of BTTF. It was absolutely beautiful with great detail and total intact natural film grain. WTF is wrong with Universal.
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post #24 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post


I finally looked at this in depth, and started laughing. I thought this was just a generic cover for the trilogy.

Friggin Hilarious. Good work. You should send it to Universal.
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post #25 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 06:01 PM
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I saw a 35mm print of BTTF a few months ago. The BD had already been announced so I tried to pay attention to how it looked. Can someone put up caps of where the fridge is open and the Coke cans are visible?

The HDTV caps are more representative as to what I saw than the BD. Though I'm thinking that the print I saw was slightly darker and the grain perhaps a bit clumpier looking.



The BD looks processed and nasty in those caps. It is not the worst out there but that's not much of a compliment.
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post #26 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 10:37 PM
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The BD looks fine to me. Is it perfect? No, but it certainly isn't terrible like everyone makes it out to be. Looking at the screenshots, I would much rather have the BD than the blurry HDTV version.
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post #27 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 10:48 PM
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The street was destroyed in the Universal fire a few years back...

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post #28 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDarrylR View Post

I'm keeping my HD-DVD copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

?

I think it's his way at poking fun at everyone who doesn't agree that it's 4.5/5 transfer.

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post #29 of 93 Old 10-23-2010, 11:40 PM
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look at the cap with marty and his dad, the BD has better detail in the grey jacket, more natural info there(cross threads are visible), the wowow has compression noise that looks like detail, the BD does have EE though, but the DNR looks minuscule as film grain is plainly visible, again wowow has compression noise pretty bad

-Gary
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post #30 of 93 Old 10-24-2010, 01:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post

I finally looked at this in depth, and started laughing. I thought this was just a generic cover for the trilogy.

Friggin Hilarious. Good work. You should send it to Universal.

Marty is govered in EE and DNR and the logo was DNR'd too
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