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post #4621 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 11:36 AM
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I recently bought mine and didn't notice any green tint or black crush for that matter.

BUT...that doesn't mean it wasn't there.

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post #4622 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 11:38 AM
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I'm not taking people's word for this, I'll need to see captures before I spend any money.

And NOT of the snow scenes.. I think there's a handful of shots that look wildly different because those are the ones that Jackson really did go back and re-time (that's what's making Warner Bros ignore all the complaints, because people are using screenshots from scenes that Jackson re-timed!). So I'd stick with the ones where the only noticeable change was the addition of the green tint. Shouldn't be hard with all the info in this thread.

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post #4623 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Seems odd to me. They know enough to know about such a niche issue but they post the information at Amazon and at none of the forums where this information first came to light and is still being discussed? I'll believe it when someone here with both sets post actual captures comparing the two. I can't tell you how many comments I've read on other forums from people who just bought set the saying "Just picked it up and I didn't see ANY green tint! Looks like they fixed it!"

Do you have links to these Amazon comments?

I looked through the Amazon reviews from newest to oldest and I couldn't find any posts about the fixed grading from someone who owns an earlier EE BD release and a new BD EE release. The two newest posts I could find was one from a day or two ago from someone who bought it and said something like "I didn't notice any green tint. Those that did must be having issues with their BD players" (obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.) The other newest post I could find about it was from 6 days ago. It was a 1 star review complaining about the heavy green tint (this guy didn't buy it though. He was just complaining about it and saying that's the reason he's holding off.) You might have misread the first one - he mentions having two discs of Fellowship but he was talking about Disc 1 and Disc 2 from the same package (since each film is spread out over 2 discs,) not an older disc and a newer disc. Is this what you're talking about or are there other reviews I missed?

Here you go:

Mike Birman's Posts. He is a definite believer in green tint and has tried firmware fixes. BTW, he suggests having seen an director's cut with even more footage on tv with no green tint, and believes that this version will be released close to the Hobbit release. Some of his posts in chronological order from before and after he received the new "fixed" set :

A comparison of all versions using multiple monitors and computer screens has a definite green tint in several scenes on the Fellowship Blu-Ray disc, with the mountain scene in snow prior to entering Moria particularly green. The problem was reproduced on several screens using five different Blu-Ray players including two extremely high-end players. It is safe to say that it isn't an artifact related to one maladjusted TV. Last Thanksgiving weekend STARZ had a LOTR marathon. On Sunday they showed what they called "The Director's Vision of LOTR." Each film was much longer than previous extended versions. Return of the King was nearly 4 hours and 15 minutes in length. Fellowship and Two Towers were each around 3:45 in length. There were many new scenes. None of them were green. There is no question a new ultimate extended version with perfect remastering is on the way. Expect it around the time of The Hobbit release. And because I love these films so much I will buy that too. And they know it.

The lack of firmware upgrades might play a part but when I performed my little experiment that was the first thing I verified. I also viewed it on two computers, both relatively new and with good graphics cards. The fact that all who claim this phenomenon do so for the same scenes on the same discs of the same film is very suggestive. It might be a batch error with other batches untainted. I suspect that may be a strong possibility.

You make a valid point. However, interestingly, I was unaware that there even existed a so-called green tint problem. I was watching Fellowship on blu-ray one day and when it came to the Caradhras mountain scene it was so strongly tinted green that I thought my disc was defective and began to explore the problem. With me the green came before the controversy. I don't view it as a serious issue but rather a puzzle that has intrigued me. Something is causing some people to see this and for some it is distracting enough to mar their enjoyment of a film they love. It is a conundrum and we all love a mystery.

DECEMBER 7, 2011 - Just an additional piece of data. With the price reduction this past weekend I decided to buy a new set. Call it a hunch. Watched the first 2 discs. Lo and behold no deep green tint in the offending scenes. The film itself still seems a bit at color variance with the DVD release but the egregious green shading in the Caradhas mountain scene looks much better. And comparing the two discs was obvious. There was a definite problem with the initial release. I will not venture a guess as to what it was. Those who have just purchased the set and say they see no green tint are probably correct. That does not apply to the initial run, however.

I suspect that there is more than a single plant that manufactures these discs and that it may have been a local problem. Given the enormous number of people who contemporaneously reported the problem it strikes me as untenable to assert that no problem ever existed. Unless it was a simultaneous attack of mass hypnosis or hysteria the fact that so many reported this at the same time strikes me as suggestive.

Psychological? Some other mental aberration? Thousands of people simultaneously report that specific locations on specific discs of a specific film exhibits a specific anomaly. The simplest explanation is a defect of some kind. I would venture that thesis even if I hadn't seen the issue myself. Having seen it for myself before I'd ever heard of a so-called green tint problem or of an attendant controversy i think a defect makes for the likeliest explanation. Especially when comparing it to another disc purchased 6 months later. However, it is only a theory and I allow for any other feasible explanation.

I think the defect was in the remastering that allowed an error in (perhaps) color grading to be copied to an early run of discs. A limited number of these color defective discs were run before the problem was secretly corrected. It probably wasn't economically desirable to call attention to the problem. I wasn't clear as to what I thought the defect was. I cannot find an obviously marked proof of purchase sticker anywhere. I am playing these discs on an Oppo BDP-95 into an Onkyo HT-RC180 receiver. The Oppo is quite precise as to color representation.

LINK: http://www.amazon.com/review/RYISF17...wasThisHelpful
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post #4624 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 02:19 PM
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very interesting news about a possible fix to the green tint issue...if true then it has to be an early manufacturing batch issue which has since been ninja fixed

now I'll purchase it from Amazon...for $49.99 to boot!...waiting pays off
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post #4625 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 02:24 PM
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Interesting. I have been holding off from purchasing the extended version, and will wait a bit longer to see if their is a newer "fixed" batch. But at $49, its almost a no-brainer I will purchase this set too.
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post #4626 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 02:33 PM
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I'll still wait for the inevitable "ultimate" cut that has been hinted at by Jackson in the past.

I'd even wait for The Hobbit's extended cut after the theatrical release gets put out on video. I can only imagine that Jackson and WB will pull the same stunt he did with the two (and now three) LOTR's cuts .

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post #4627 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 03:21 PM
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It so wouldn't surprise me if this 'remastered' hubbub was due to people who just can't 'see' the tint (for reasons explained earlier in the thread).
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post #4628 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I'll still wait for the inevitable "ultimate" cut that has been hinted at by Jackson in the past.

I'd even wait for The Hobbit's extended cut after the theatrical release gets put out on video. I can only imagine that Jackson and WB will pull the same stunt he did with the two (and now three) LOTR's cuts

earliest we'll be seeing this 'Ultimate' cut would be late 2014...you must be very patient
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post #4629 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

I'll still wait for the inevitable "ultimate" cut that has been hinted at by Jackson in the past.

I'd even wait for The Hobbit's extended cut after the theatrical release gets put out on video. I can only imagine that Jackson and WB will pull the same stunt he did with the two (and now three) LOTR's cuts .

Fool me once...

No doubt this will happen.

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post #4630 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 05:36 PM
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I second the call for screenshot comparisons between the fist batch and the later ones.

I broke down and bought the set at the $50, less some Amazon credit points I had, taking the total down to $27 in mid November. I knew what to expect based on the screenshots in this thread, among others. I watched FotR the other night (other matters delayed my viewing), and paid particular attention to the mountain snow scene, and the "second breakfast" shots. Both of these looked exactly how they are represented in the screen shots (dark, blue tinted mountain snow, green tinted "second Breakfast" snow). If there was a "ninja fix" applied in the newer batches, I must have gotten one of the older sets (even after six months?!?).

If anything, such comparisons could be useful in "convincing" Warner to offer a replacement to those with the "green thumb" version...

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post #4631 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

If anything, such comparisons could be useful in "convincing" Warner to offer a replacement to those with the "green thumb" version...

the last thing Warner wants to do is offer replacement discs...hence the reason for the possible ninja fix...no confirmation of this fix will come from Warner Bros.
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post #4632 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 06:55 PM
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The thing is, if such a fix is confirmed, that will be confirmation that the original release was in fact defective. Personally, since my LotR is still under Amazon's Christmas return schedule (I have until Jan 31), the worst case scenario is that I would return the set as defective (pending said confirmation).

Whether Warner admits to the fix is irrelevant, as the screenshots will speak for themselves. As with the framing error on the first Pirates film (which was equally obvious from screenshots), I think they will have to offer the fixed discs on a call-in basis...

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post #4633 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

...I watched FotR the other night (other matters delayed my viewing), and paid particular attention to the mountain snow scene, and the "second breakfast" shots. Both of these looked exactly how they are represented in the screen shots (dark, blue tinted mountain snow, green tinted "second Breakfast" snow).

I think people need to stop using those two scenes for reference.

We keep hearing that Jackson did go back and intentionally re-time some scenes in the film. This is what's causing the confusion with Warner Bros and why they keep saying the changes were intentional.

The green tint alone does not explain the differences in those two scenes specifically, and when the tint is removed, they still look drastically different than the theatrical presentation.

As such, it's not much of a stretch to assume that those two scenes were some of the ones that Jackson really did go back and re-time. Which means they are utterly worthless in comparison to the theatrical release in determining whether the green tint, and the green tint alone, is still present.

I don't have any problem with Jackson tweaking the films a little here and there, especially considering the rumors that these specific changes were intended from the beginning and couldn't be completed in time for the theatrical release. It's the green tint, and only the green tint, that I and others want to see removed, not the un-doing of the actual legitimate changes that Jackson really did make.

My suggestions for the two scenes to use for comparison would be the ones where we know there was originally pure white in the scene.. the Ringwraiths at Weathertop and Frodo's awakening at Rivendell. Find that image with the white/green stripes earlier in the thread.. pick those scenes.

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post #4634 of 5590 Old 01-07-2012, 08:54 PM
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2 things:

1) If the color has been corrected, does that also mean that the black crush has been corrected? Is the loss of shadow detail the result of the color issue?

2) I can see an ultimate LOTR edition, with everything fixed and new scenes, coming out this year right before the hobbit hits theaters in order to capture the crazed fans $, then the hobbit coming into theaters, then a theatrical hobbit on disk, then a complete release (ultimate LOTR + hobbit EE) then ultimate complete (ultimate Hobbit + ultimate LOTR). If that's the case, I plan on waiting for the ultimate LOTR, and then just buying the ultimate hobbit separately in 2030.
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post #4635 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

*see post above*

God damn. This sounds wicked encouraging. Good find Viche, I absolutely missed that. I never imagined the post you were talking about had that level of detail and certainty.




Has anyone else seen or even heard of the "Longer than the EE versions" Mike Birman from Amazon was talking about that Starz aired??? Did I just completely miss this? This is the first I'm hearing about it, he says they were aired over Thanksgiving? How did I miss this... A version of the RotK with 5 mins. of extra scenes over the existing EE? Almost 15 extra minutes added to Fellowship over the EE version????




Quote:
Originally Posted by BMaugans View Post

I'm one of those that just recently purchased the set and don't see any of the green tint issues. If there's anyone in the metro Atlanta area with the old set that does see them, I'd be glad to meet up and compare the two.

Nice. I'm in NH - so I'm nowhere near you but hopefully someone lives in your area that can look at it and let us know what they think as well.




That being said -

If this is getting fixed, or has already been, that would be absolutely friggin' awesome.

Even without an exchange program I would buy again - just to get the fixed version. Fellowship is one of my favorite films of all time.






Hopefully someone can do some proper screencaps and put it to rest once and for all. It's the only definite way to "prove it" for everyone else looking on. This is encouraging stuff, but I won't be rebuying until I see some direct caps - it's all just heresy otherwise. I've read too many posts from anonymous posters that claim to either not see the grading issues and black crush at all and/or claim that it doesn't exist (unfortunately I'm not one of those people that "doesn't see it.")
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post #4636 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 07:06 AM
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I was very upset with the obvious green tint and black crush when the blu ray first came out and was incredulous that a lot of people either can't see it or choose to ignore it.

I finally decided to pick it up for $50. I don't think I see it. If anyone has preferences or timestamps or suggestions about what screens to capture, I would be happy to entertain them.

Hopefully, I'll have them coming in the next hour or so.

Edit: So a grand total of 5 seconds skipping around is not enough time to really see a difference. Sorry, it still has the errors.
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post #4637 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 07:56 AM
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Hi John,

I would like to see these two shots (the mountain snow and "second breakfast"), as what I am seeing is vastly different from the theatrical, but, as Jedi2016 stated, they may have been re-timed anyway:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

As such, it's not much of a stretch to assume that those two scenes were some of the ones that Jackson really did go back and re-time. Which means they are utterly worthless in comparison to the theatrical release in determining whether the green tint, and the green tint alone, is still present.

My conclusion that since these two scenes are different on my copy therefore I must have one from an early batch (assuming that there *was* a "ninja fix") may not be entirely true. I went in to the viewing looking for the green tint, and there might be more than a little "self-fulfilling prophesy" going on here. Thanks!

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post #4638 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 08:53 AM
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lol, what a piece of ****. This is so obviously a mastering error.

Background: I bought the EE set from Amazon this week to see for myself whether there is a green tint and whether it's fixed or not.

Below are the screenshots looking like crap. Anyone want to explain why there is a fade from teal instead of fade from white? And why do the credits change from teal overtones to white? You can see in the third picture that the captions are white but the fade is green.

Below are my pics. I re-sized the images but otherwise did not change them.






Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up, but I ordered this 4 days ago from Amazon and it looks like there are no changes. It's still a piece of crap.

I'm going to investigate the corrections King Kong and others were talking about.

Is there one conversion that people regard as the best?
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post #4639 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 08:58 AM
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Thank you, John.

That is exactly what I am seeing on my copy.

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post #4640 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

God damn. This sounds wicked encouraging. Good find Viche, I absolutely missed that. I never imagined the post you were talking about had that level of detail and certainty.

No problem. I was pretty surprised to find that level of detail in an Amazon comment as well. I started this journey in a SlickDeals thread about the Black Friday price for the EE set, and now I'm glad I waited. Like I said earlier though, I'm considering waiting until the Ultimate set comes out...or at least until their is more definitive info (or reasonable speculation) on when that will be released. And if I decide that release is too far off, then I need more proof that a ninja-fix actually happened on the EE set, and how you can tell if you got the fixed version.

BTW, I keep reading about other movies I didn't realize had obvious issues. Is there a single thread that compiles a list of all of the messed up movies, the flaw, and later fixes?
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post #4641 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 09:10 AM
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Darn....how could that guy on Amazon have been so sure? WB plant? I can't believe that someone so articulate could have just been mistaken. We need him to come in here and show us screenshots. Maybe the new sets from amazon are coming from different distributors or being dithered in with old sets?
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post #4642 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Darn....how could that guy on Amazon have been so sure? WB plant? I can't believe that someone so articulate could have just been mistaken. We need him to come in here and show us screenshots.

Yeah, it's a shame. I had a doubt: Why would WB change it and not tell anyone? If they spent money to fix the problem, they would have to announce an exchange program. They won't keep it quiet.

However, despite that doubt, I went ahead and bought it. I regret it. Unless several people show me actual screenshots or WB announces the correction, I won't believe that there is an unaccounced fix.
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post #4643 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 10:00 AM
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And you used those same two scenes again. They are not a good comparison!

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post #4644 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 10:29 AM
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Those screen shots look just like my disc and I bought mine 2-3 weeks ago.

I personally don't see the fuss, but that's me. I never noticed it while I was watching the movie.

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post #4645 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

And you used those same two scenes again. They are not a good comparison!

That's because when I asked, you did not suggest any scenes.

I am sorry I have not been able to keep up with this 4,600+ post thread. Why aren't those good comparisons? The title card is a different color than the other 2 films. The fade is not white, the snow is not white. Why aren't these good scenes? Which scenes would you like?
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post #4646 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Walley View Post

That's because when I asked, you did not suggest any scenes.

At minimum, some of the scenes that should be used for comparison are the shots that are repeated across FOTR and the other two films, such as Galdalf's battle with the Balrog, which is a climactic event in FOTR and is also the opening scene in TTT. I realize that even if these scenes are different, this is not conclusive evidence of a problem, since they could have been processed completely differently in each of the films. But, at least these scenes would offer some idea of what they are supposed to look like (in the TTT versions).
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post #4647 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 11:46 AM
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I'm referring to the snow and the "second breakfast" scene. Even without the green tint, they look significantly different from the theatrical release. That tells me, at any rate, that those scenes were some of the ones that were intentionally re-colored by Peter Jackson. As such, they're of absolutely no use in demonstrating the differences, since even without the tint, they're going to look different.

The other two shots of the title card and Frodo are very good examples, and do indeed demonstrate that the tint is very much alive and well, thank you.

All I'm trying to argue for is for people to limit the comparisons to the shots that have ONLY THE GREEN TINT and not other forms of color correction. It's the tint, and the tint alone, that we're complaining about, not the scenes that were intentionally re-colored like Second Breakfast.

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post #4648 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 01:23 PM
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I'm dying for some kind of confirmation that there are two different runs of discs out there.
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post #4649 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

AFAIK, it hasn't been confirmed.
BUT, if it is true....I want an exchange.

+1..........but where is the proof? We need some comparison shots IF this is true.

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post #4650 of 5590 Old 01-08-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Darn....how could that guy on Amazon have been so sure? WB plant? I can't believe that someone so articulate could have just been mistaken. We need him to come in here and show us screenshots. Maybe the new sets from amazon are coming from different distributors or being dithered in with old sets?

I don't think that Warners have changed a damned thing. I reckon that matey at amazon doesn't know WTF he's talking about (just 'cause you've got an Oppo disc spinner doesn't mean you've got a clue; "a fool and his money..." etc).

The thing that tipped me off - which I can't believe you guys didn't spot - is when he mentioned that Gandalf's fall looked the same in both FOTR and Two Towers, when it's ALWAYS been timed differently, regardless of the video format and these tinting issues.

I call BS. I'm happy to be proved wrong, mind you.
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