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post #4891 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

On my TV vs my computer screen....no, but what's the point? It will look slightly different on any source. Point is, it's not what it could have been. I'll wait until they fix this obvious flaw. Why should I waste $ to watch a flawed transfer?

I do agree. I don't mind watching but it's definitely not a transfer I would like to own.
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post #4892 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

...it's not what it could have been. I'll wait until they fix this obvious flaw. Why should I waste $ to watch a flawed transfer?

Here is my take on all of this: the above statement perfectly defines the two types of movie lovers I have observed on this (and many other) boards. There are those that hold the quality of the transfer as the top qualifier of what they watch, with the specific title as secondary. As an extreme example, they would rather watch a pristine 1080p transfer of "Freddy Gets Fingered" as opposed to a VHS second generation P&S copy of "Jaws." That's fine, as their passion lies in the quality of the transfer, and how close can they come to 35mm projection. Then there are those whose passion lies in the library of titles they love to watch, and the transfer quality is secondary (within boundaries, of course). Restated, there are those who limit their libraries to only the best transfers possible, as opposed to those to whom the title is the bigger deciding factor, and their libraries are filled with the best transfers available.

To me, "The Lord of the Rings" is the Holy Grail of movie entertainment, and while I am mad enough to chew Neutronium at the botched transfer, the audio trumps the DVD version (and, aside from the green overcast, the video is second to none IMO), so that is the best version available right now. Do I deny that a big transfer problem exists? Last time I checked, I am not blind, so no. Will I upgrade when (if) a "fixed" version is available? Absolutely. But, what is available now is certainly better than not being able to watch it at all. So, I guess I belong to the second camp: I have a predefined list of titles I want in my library, and I will fill those slots with the best that is available. The Lord of the Rings just happens to be at the top of that list.

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post #4893 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 07:44 AM
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I was able to find a great deal on this trilogy, so purchased it, watched it, and am very glad to have it in my collection. If they should make big improvements on these movies down the line, I might purchase them again, depending on what those improvements are. In the interim, I'm pretty happy to have them available on blu-ray.

oz
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post #4894 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

On my TV vs my computer screen....no, but what's the point? It will look slightly different on any source. Point is, it's not what it could have been. I'll wait until they fix this obvious flaw. Why should I waste $ to watch a flawed transfer?

You don't have to buy it, but you probably shouldn't make judgements about how it's "unwatchable" relying on screenshots that most people who've watched the film would agree are misleading regarding how the colors look in proper home theater viewing. It's not perfect, but the flaws are fairly benign and I suspect you would be pleasantly surprised if you rented it or borrowed it or something.
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post #4895 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:10 AM
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The "flaw" is not noticeable when actually watching the movie. Really a non issue.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #4896 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

Here is my take on all of this: the above statement perfectly defines the two types of movie lovers I have observed on this (and many other) boards. There are those that hold the quality of the transfer as the top qualifier of what they watch, with the specific title as secondary. As an extreme example, they would rather watch a pristine 1080p transfer of "Freddy Gets Fingered" as opposed to a VHS second generation P&S copy of "Jaws." That's fine, as their passion lies in the quality of the transfer, and how close can they come to 35mm projection. Then there are those whose passion lies in the library of titles they love to watch, and the transfer quality is secondary (within boundaries, of course). Restated, there are those who limit their libraries to only the best transfers possible, as opposed to those to whom the title is the bigger deciding factor, and their libraries are filled with the best transfers available.

To me, "The Lord of the Rings" is the Holy Grail of movie entertainment, and while I am mad enough to chew Neutronium at the botched transfer, the audio trumps the DVD version (and, aside from the green overcast, the video is second to none), so that is the best version available right now. Do I deny that a big transfer problem exists? Last time I checked, I am not blind, so no. Will I upgrade when (if) a "fixed" version is available? Absolutely. But, what is available is certainly better than not being able to watch it at all. So, I guess I belong to the second camp: I have a predefined list of titles I want in my library, and I will fill those slots with the best that is available. The Lord of the Rings just happens to be at the top of that list.

With all due respect, that's partially ridiculous/partially right. I've already seen the film, so why should I buy a flawed version for re-watching? I don't HAVE to have it now or HAVE to watch it regularly. That distinction alone creates at least 2 more categories of movie watchers. If I had a choice to see a really good film on a bad transfer or a really bad film on a good transfer I'd choose the prior...IF those were my only two options. I have a choice here, though. I don't have to buy a flawed version of a film I've already seen when I believe that a fixed version will be released one day. I'll wait for an unflawed version to add to my library.

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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

You don't have to buy it, but you probably shouldn't make judgements about how it's "unwatchable" relying on screenshots that most people who've watched the film would agree are misleading regarding how the colors look in proper home theater viewing. It's not perfect, but the flaws are fairly benign and I suspect you would be pleasantly surprised if you rented it or borrowed it or something.

Many people would vehemently disagree with you here regarding the degree of flaw. I'll just wait for a fixed version...no biggie on my part. Jackson and company should be ashamed though.
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post #4897 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

I've already seen the film, so why should I buy a flawed version for re-watching? I don't HAVE to have it now or HAVE to watch it regularly. That distinction alone creates at least 2 more categories of movie watchers. If I had a choice to see a really good film on a bad transfer or a really bad film on a good transfer I'd choose the prior...IF those were my only two options. I have a choice here, though. I don't have to buy a flawed version of a film I've already seen when I believe that a fixed version will be released one day. I'll wait for an unflawed version to add to my library.

Fair enough. The difference here is that I DO watch it regularly, and I like having it available when I want it, in the best form currently available. I can definitely appreciate the probability that a new transfer is forthcoming (hopefully when The Hobbit is released), but I also remember that when Batman (1989) was originally released on DVD (one of the launch titles, if I remember correctly), it was over a decade before we got a new version. That was Warner too...

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post #4898 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post




I knew Batman was Immortal!!!



Nice try on the date edit. lol

Cool Beans.
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post #4899 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Many people would vehemently disagree with you here regarding the degree of flaw.

How many of them, like you, have never seen the disc they're bashing?
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Jackson and company should be ashamed though.

Again, outside of screenshots and Youtube videos on your PC monitor, you've never actually watched what's being discussed, right?


I find it rather interesting/disturbing that many (not all, of course) of the most vocal detractors have never seen the title they're bashing. I also believe that even if Peter Jackson were to release a video showing him not only approving the final disc, but going scene to scene explaining his reasoning behind the changes, that some of those same people would dismiss it as Jackson towing the company line and still refuse to watch the BD and/or admit they were wrong.
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post #4900 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DRaven72 View Post

I knew Batman was Immortal!!!



Nice try on the date edit. lol

Damn. I knew someone would catch that before I fixed it...

Peace... Vader
 

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post #4901 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 10:57 AM
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The way I see it, buy it now while you're sure to get two out of three "perfect" versions. Who knows? The "Hobbit Collection" might be all green.
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post #4902 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

How many of them, like you, have never seen the disc they're bashing?

Have you been following this thread since release? The answer is most of them (who have posted here) have the disc and were complaining about it.

Additionally, there have been numerous screenshots that are full 1080p posted here, one only needs to copy to a USB stick and play through their TV in a proper viewing environment, and have done just that.

There are settings in the TV that can 'undo' the gain and tint errors, enough so that I wouldn't hold off buying the set personally, had I known of the issue.
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post #4903 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 01:47 PM
 
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Have you been following this thread since release?

Yes.
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The answer is most of them (who have posted here) have the disc and were complaining about it.

Since you seem to know (presumably because you've either been keeping track or went back and counted,) what percentge have actually watched the BD?
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post #4904 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

What percentge have actually watched the BD?

In the beginning, > 50%. As time went on, it was only a select few who stayed around who kept repeating the same stuff over and over. People would regularly come on, not read the past days worth of posts, and post "I just got my copy and it doesn't have a green tint." The thread quickly turned from people posting their screenshots and photoshop analysis to people arguing about the existence of the tint.
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post #4905 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 02:08 PM
 
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In the beginning, > 50%. As time went on, it was only a select few who stayed around who kept repeating the same stuff over and over. People would regularly come on, not read the past days worth of posts, and post "I just got my copy and it doesn't have a green tint." The thread quickly turned from people posting their screenshots and photoshop analysis to people arguing about the existence of the tint.

Ah. So you really don't know what "the answer is," despite your claim to the contrary in the previous post.

Of course, even if it was more than 50% now, that would still make my previous statement accurate, as there would still be many who are bashing the disc without the benefit of ever actually watching the disc in question. And really, what can one possibly hope to contribute to a thread about a particular set of discs when one has never watched the discs in question?

BTW - have you watched the disc in question? You have a ton of posts in this thread, but I don't recall seeing one where you mentioned actually watching the disc versus just looking at screencaps and Youtube clips. ETA - nevermind, found a post mentioning that you watched it with adjusted contrast and white balance.
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post #4906 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

even if it was more than 50% now, that would still make my previous statement accurate, as there would still be many who are bashing the disc without the benefit of ever actually watching the disc in question.

Well, sure, you can define "many" however you want to match your statement.

There are also many who have watched the discs and still bashed them.

Quote:


And really, what can one possibly hope to contribute to a thread about a particular set of discs when one has never watched the discs in question?

It has been verified that the screenshots are accurate. I have not seen one single post from anyone claiming that putting one of the many 1080p screen caps ripped straight from the disc onto a USB stick and playing on their TV, that it looked any different than the actual discs.
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post #4907 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

I have not seen one single post from anyone claiming that putting one of the many 1080p screen caps ripped straight from the disc onto a USB stick and playing on their TV, that it looked any different than the actual discs.

Cycling through a couple of screenshots on your tv is not the same experience as watching a movie, with natural scene-to-scene transitions, in motion.

I don't feel special...
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post #4908 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 03:05 PM
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Yes, but you can still see what the tint and gain problems look like. I also have not seen anyone say when the pause the movie, they can see the tint, but when they hit play, it goes away or becomes less noticeable.

There were a couple people who speculated that the motion made it not noticeable, but further examination showed it was just that they were watching it on their TVs with no reference white (in other words, they didn't say the tint appeared when paused), whereas on a computer monitor there is usually reference white showing somewhere, thus your brain can pick up on the difference easier.
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post #4909 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

but further examination showed it was just that they were watching it on their TVs with no reference white (in other words, they didn't say the tint appeared when paused), whereas on a computer monitor there is usually reference white showing somewhere, thus your brain can pick up on the difference easier.

Is that a bad thing? That's how I tend to watch my movies...
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post #4910 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

...but further examination showed it was just that they were watching it on their TVs with no reference white (in other words, they didn't say the tint appeared when paused), whereas on a computer monitor there is usually reference white showing somewhere, thus your brain can pick up on the difference easier.

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Is that a bad thing? That's how I tend to watch my movies...

My display is backlighted (Ideal Lume) at 6500k, so I do have a reference point. I can verify that the screenshots others have posted are pretty accurate, and the presence of the tint is quite obvious. However, it does not significantly detract from my enjoyment of the film (indeed, the only two scenes where it is somewhat annoying are Cadaras and "second breakfast"). Again, would I upgrade when a corrected version is released? Sure, but what we have is quite a lot better than nothing!..

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One sub to rumble them all. One sub to shake them. One sub to humble them all. And in the darkness break them....

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post #4911 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 03:44 PM
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Is that a bad thing? That's how I tend to watch my movies...

No, not at all, and I would say this is the main reason the majority of the population likely won't notice the tint, or do notice it but don't find it distracting.

I lent out my set to 2 friends with projectors. After getting it back, I asked if they noticed anything about FOTR. One said no, the other said it seemed a little dim (he had a dim projector to begin with, though). Neither noticed the tint.
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post #4912 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

No, not at all, and I would say this is the main reason the majority of the population likely won't notice the tint, or do notice it but don't find it distracting.

I lent out my set to 2 friends with projectors. After getting it back, I asked if they noticed anything about FOTR. One said no, the other said it seemed a little dim (he had a dim projector to begin with, though). Neither noticed the tint.

That's not the point.

It doesn't matter if it's distracting. It doesn't matter if you notice it when watching the movie. None of that changes the fact that it's there and it shouldn't be.

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
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post #4913 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 05:06 PM
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That's not the point.

It doesn't matter if it's distracting. It doesn't matter if you notice it when watching the movie. None of that changes the fact that it's there and it shouldn't be.

But that IS my point. I agree that it is there, I agree that it should not be there and I agree WB should replace everyone's copy for free. I will only watch it with my TV adjusted as described earlier.

But my point is, different people have different thresholds for whether or not to purchase what is currently out there, and their opinions ands preferences, regardless of whether or not they've seen the actual disc filtered through their blu-ray player, are justifiable given the evidence.
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post #4914 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 06:00 PM
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Under Special Features, there are two options - Commentaries and a picture of the ring. Choose the ring.

A belated thank-you.
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post #4915 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 06:17 PM
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I just don't understand Jackson. If the newer timing IS what he now wants, why not just say it? What's the big deal? Ridley and Cameron tweaked their ALIEN films' timings for the blu ray.

And if not, wouldn't jackson want the film that's considered his masterwork to be available looking the best it could? Surely he has the clout to get a replacement issued.
Shoot, I sweat over every single shot in the music videos I shoot for indie artists and often make multiple edits on my own time just to get the clips exactly how I want them.

Granted i'm not Jackson and the longest project I've shot has been 35 minutes but the principle's the same.
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I really enjoyed LOTR in the theater. It was truly epic, and looked forward to the sequel/s. The second installment just didn't do it for me. The constant repetitious "my precious" was just silly. Add to that, the ad infinitum replays on cable tv, and I've just gotten absolutely sick of this trilogy.

I'm just glad that Spike FINALLY stopped showing the Star Wars trilogy after what seemed like airings every weekend for at least a year on end.
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post #4917 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

I just don't understand Jackson. If the newer timing IS what he now wants, why not just say it? What's the big deal? Ridley and Cameron tweaked their ALIEN films' timings for the blu ray.

And if not, wouldn't jackson want the film that's considered his masterwork to be available looking the best it could? Surely he has the clout to get a replacement issued.
Shoot, I sweat over every single shot in the music videos I shoot for indie artists and often make multiple edits on my own time just to get the clips exactly how I want them.

Granted i'm not Jackson and the longest project I've shot has been 35 minutes but the principle's the same.

I'm of the opinion that he doesn't know about it. He knows that people are bitching, but no one's told him specifically what the issue is. The problem is that they really did make some changes here and there throughout the film, and those are the scenes that everyone keeps bringing up as examples of the "problem" (this is why WB keeps saying the changes are intentional.. some of them actually are). If those are what people are showing him, his only reaction can and will be "Yeah, we did that one on purpose". But I honestly don't think anyone's sat him down and explained to him the green wash over the entire film.

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
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post #4918 of 5590 Old 04-18-2012, 09:00 PM
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Yeah. I imagine it must be something like that.
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post #4919 of 5590 Old 04-19-2012, 08:38 AM
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I find it hard to believe that the message hasn't got through to Jackson yet. More like selective hearing
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post #4920 of 5590 Old 04-19-2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

How many of them, like you, have never seen the disc they're bashing?

Again, outside of screenshots and Youtube videos on your PC monitor, you've never actually watched what's being discussed, right?


I find it rather interesting/disturbing that many (not all, of course) of the most vocal detractors have never seen the title they're bashing. I also believe that even if Peter Jackson were to release a video showing him not only approving the final disc, but going scene to scene explaining his reasoning behind the changes, that some of those same people would dismiss it as Jackson towing the company line and still refuse to watch the BD and/or admit they were wrong.

Irrelevant and presumptuous. You have no idea whether or not the most vocal people have not "seen the title." My monitor is just another viewing device. What if I told you that my monitor is where i watch the majority of blu-ray movies? I have seen clips that have been captured directly from the discs without any color manipulation. Why can't you accept that as soon as I saw the clips on my movie watching hardware, I noticed that it was too green and dark??

If I go out and rent the movie (wasting $ I shouldn't have to) and watch the entire first movie on my monitor, and then tell you that the color and darkness bothered me, would you believe me?
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