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post #4981 of 5590 Old 06-19-2012, 10:27 AM
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I don't think any new scenes were added to the blu EE compared to the DVD EE. At least, there weren't any I recognized as new.

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post #4982 of 5590 Old 06-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

I don't think any new scenes were added to the blu EE compared to the DVD EE. At least, there weren't any I recognized as new.

Thanks. It may have just been a while and I didn't remember. These versions are absolutely huge!

Anyways, two scenes I remember off the top of my head that seemed new to me were in the Moria mines when they look down that deep shaft and Gandalf is talking about how they mine mithril there, and the short scene before they go see Galadriel and they are shown looking upon the forest of Lorien from a distance.

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post #4983 of 5590 Old 06-19-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

Thanks. It may have just been a while and I didn't remember. These versions are absolutely huge!
Anyways, two scenes I remember off the top of my head that seemed new to me were in the Moria mines when they look down that deep shaft and Gandalf is talking about how they mine mithril there, and the short scene before they go see Galadriel and they are shown looking upon the forest of Lorien from a distance.

Those scenes are in the EE on both DVD and Blu-ray. I have both formats for the EE and have seen them in the theater a number of times, so I know they're there.

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post #4984 of 5590 Old 06-19-2012, 12:24 PM
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Nice, thanks. Just my foggy memory then.

Next issue is the alleged green tint problem on the Blu-Ray versions. Is this just for the EE, and not the theatrical release Blu-Rays? I did not notice anything jump out at me as far as too much green in the white scenery, but will probably look closer and compare to my DVDs this weekend when I get a chance.

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post #4985 of 5590 Old 06-19-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post

Nice, thanks. Just my foggy memory then.
Next issue is the alleged green tint problem on the Blu-Ray versions. Is this just for the EE, and not the theatrical release Blu-Rays? I did not notice anything jump out at me as far as too much green in the white scenery, but will probably look closer and compare to my DVDs this weekend when I get a chance.

the theatrical br release was not a good transfer. imho, it is a rent only and not a buy

the ee br release is another matter. yes the fotr has a green tint and the color timing is off. it also appears too dark in some scenes. while some can watch it and not notice these imperfections, i definitely saw green snow.

the other 2 movies are quality transfers, and i think rotk is reference quality.

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post #4986 of 5590 Old 06-20-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

the theatrical br release was not a good transfer. imho, it is a rent only and not a buy
the ee br release is another matter. yes the fotr has a green tint and the color timing is off. it also appears too dark in some scenes. while some can watch it and not notice these imperfections, i definitely saw green snow.
the other 2 movies are quality transfers, and i think rotk is reference quality.

Thanks for taking the time to bring me up to speed on a topic that I'm sure has already been discussed to death.

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post #4987 of 5590 Old 06-23-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

the theatrical br release was not a good transfer. imho, it is a rent only and not a buy
the ee br release is another matter. yes the fotr has a green tint and the color timing is off. it also appears too dark in some scenes. while some can watch it and not notice these imperfections, i definitely saw green snow.
the other 2 movies are quality transfers, and i think rotk is reference quality.
So the first BD EE is damaged, whereas the final two are excellent? Unfortunately for me, the first is my absolute favorite! At this point, I'm having a hard time justifying the BD versions frown.gif. Perhaps best to stay with the DVD EE!
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post #4988 of 5590 Old 06-23-2012, 08:08 PM
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This is a topic that will never die until PJ makes an official statement.

Personally I do not find FOTR to be overly objectionable, several instances where I found things questionable but not outright. It does appear just a bit dimmer than the other two films, although some play it up as though it has been completely cloaked in darkness which is not the case.
Next it has been mentioned numerous times that FOTR did not receive a full DI and timing until the BR release. Correct me if I am wrong there.

For those that are overly concerned about it I would recommend borrowing from someone who owns it if it cannot be rented.

My thought is if you are a fan then there is no real reason to not pick it up.

One you will at the very least get two film transfers which are universally accepted as excellent, assuming you find fault with FOTR but can just watch the DVD.
Two all are superior to Theatrical BRs.
Three if there is indeed a recall Warner Bros. will most likely run an exchange program for those who want to take advantage of it.

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post #4989 of 5590 Old 06-23-2012, 10:36 PM
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I think everyone got overly anal about Fellowship of the Ring... I saw blue, not green snow, which was what I remember from the theater for the theatrical and the DVD for the extended. My bigger concern was that the more I watch the trilogy, the more I get frustrated by Jackson & company's tendency toward bombast and overly insistent emotions and stretching things out, of spelling every last thing out rather than allowing the viewer to realize things on his or her own. Still, a great achievement overall.

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post #4990 of 5590 Old 06-24-2012, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

This is a topic that will never die until PJ makes an official statement.

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post #4991 of 5590 Old 06-24-2012, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

Next it has been mentioned numerous times that FOTR did not receive a full DI and timing until the BR release. Correct me if I am wrong there.
For those that are overly concerned about it I would recommend borrowing from someone who owns it if it cannot be rented.
My thought is if you are a fan then there is no real reason to not pick it up.
One you will at the very least get two film transfers which are universally accepted as excellent, assuming you find fault with FOTR but can just watch the DVD.
Two all are superior to Theatrical BRs.
Feedback I've read is the first is green compared to the original. That to me is a disgrace -- same happened to "Seven" and "Aliens". For that matter, I understand "The French Connection" is screwed up too. I'm only interested in films that look like the real films, not some distorted viewpoint, even if the worthless director did later change his mind (THX 1138, Star Wars, and others).
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post #4992 of 5590 Old 06-24-2012, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

This is a topic that will never die until PJ makes an official statement.
Personally I do not find FOTR to be overly objectionable, several instances where I found things questionable but not outright. It does appear just a bit dimmer than the other two films, although some play it up as though it has been completely cloaked in darkness which is not the case.
Next it has been mentioned numerous times that FOTR did not receive a full DI and timing until the BR release. Correct me if I am wrong there.
For those that are overly concerned about it I would recommend borrowing from someone who owns it if it cannot be rented.
My thought is if you are a fan then there is no real reason to not pick it up.
One you will at the very least get two film transfers which are universally accepted as excellent, assuming you find fault with FOTR but can just watch the DVD.
Two all are superior to Theatrical BRs.
Three if there is indeed a recall Warner Bros. will most likely run an exchange program for those who want to take advantage of it.
Best Regards
KvE

According to Andrew Lesnie they finished up the DI for Fellowship just before they did the DI for ROTK. But Warners/New Line were too lazy to use those digital files for the theatrical Blu-ray release of FOTR. Perhaps the DI was conformed to the long version only, so they would've had to essentially re-edit the film back to its theatrical state. It was far more convenient for them to use the extant film transfer.
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post #4993 of 5590 Old 06-24-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Feedback I've read is the first is green compared to the original. That to me is a disgrace -- same happened to "Seven" and "Aliens". For that matter, I understand "The French Connection" is screwed up too. I'm only interested in films that look like the real films, not some distorted viewpoint, even if the worthless director did later change his mind (THX 1138, Star Wars, and others).

FOTR is a different scenario from the other examples, those received extensively different retimings from their original release; those are revisions. Or botched in the case of the first 'The French Connection' release but was later significantly improved with a reissue. Star Wars OT is obnoxious and detrimental as well.

FOTR was intended to be fully color corrected but for various reasons it was not completed in time for theatrical release and not done until after the EE DVD release.

LOTR EE BR all have a film like appearance in respects to detail and grain retention but they all have digital color retimings, which is the case for nearly every Hollywood release in the last ten years.

To be clear I do not care for garish revisionism, such as contrast boosting or egregious retimings, essentially changing older films to match modern trend of aesthetic that will eventually die out.
With that said there are releases were such changes do not bother me as much as it does others, like with Aliens or THX1138. Yet others I detest such as Star Wars.

Best Regards
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post #4994 of 5590 Old 09-27-2012, 07:48 AM
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I hate it when directors change the colours and such. All I want is a nice scan and a good clean-up of a catalog title and that's it. Basically, I want the ORIGINAL edition with the best PQ and AQ possible, period.

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post #4995 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 03:12 PM
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Any news on green tint/black crush? Just wondering because there is a decent deal on amazon for the extended blu-ray set. Not sure if this is a new sku. Some people are wondering why the aspect ratio reads 1.77:1. Most thing it is a typo:

The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (The Fellowship of the Ring / The Two Towers / The Return of the King Extended Editions) [Blu-ray] (2012)
Format: Box set, DTS Surround Sound, NTSC, Subtitled, Widescreen
Language: English
Subtitles: Croatian, Czech, English, French, German, Hungarian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish
Region: All Regions
Aspect Ratio: 1.77:1
Number of discs: 15
Rated: PG-13 (Parental Guidance Suggested)
Studio: New Line Home Video
DVD Release Date: May 1, 2012
Run Time: 681 minutes
Average Customer Review: 4.4 out of 5 stars See all reviews (1,115 customer reviews)
ASIN: B007ZQAKHU

BE GONE GREEN CRUSH!!! YOU SHALLL NOOOOOTTT PASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! mad.gif
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post #4996 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Feedback I've read is the first is green compared to the original. That to me is a disgrace -- same happened to "Seven" and "Aliens". For that matter, I understand "The French Connection" is screwed up too. I'm only interested in films that look like the real films, not some distorted viewpoint, even if the worthless director did later change his mind (THX 1138, Star Wars, and others).

French Connection has been re-released and fixed as a Fox director's series disc. I bought the new version and it's far better and closer to the original color timing.

The Terminator re-release now has that ugly modern teal/amber shift too. This crap must stop!!

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #4997 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 06:08 PM
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Any thoughts on the Matrix color timing changes from the theatrical release? I don't hear much complaint on that.
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post #4998 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 06:41 PM
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Any thoughts on the Matrix color timing changes from the theatrical release? I don't hear much complaint on that.
Seriously? This thread is 167 pages long.. most of it is on that very subject.

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post #4999 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 07:11 PM
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Not really. I see a few comments that are similar in tone to what I said. It seems certain releases just get more passionate responses. Also, this isn't the only source for complaints on the LOTR timing. I just don't see nearly the uproar on the matrix....
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post #5000 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 07:40 PM
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Oh, you're talking about the Matrix, the film... I thought you were talking about the Matrix-green overlay that FOTR got. (see my sig).

Changes to the Matrix didn't bother me, for a couple reasons.. it brought the films in line with the other films (for whatever that's worth), and it was made clear that it was done intentionally, and they were very specific about what they were doing and why. That's not the case with LOTR, hence the much larger outcry. The studio doesn't understand our complaint, so they ignore it.

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post #5001 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 08:09 PM
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Actually, I saw a print of The Matrix projected outdoors back in the Fall of 2003. It looked quite green to my eyes. Now, I don't remember how the movie looked back when my 13-year-old self snuck in to see it in April of '99, so I can't say for sure how it looked during its original run. If I recall correctly from 2003/2004, the Wachowskis' main reason for doing a new transfer was dissatisfaction with the first transfer, not a desire to revise the original look of the movie. The 2004 colors could very well be the original look of the movie and people were just too used to how the '99 dvd looked.

In regards to FOTR, I reiterate my point that the previous transfers were telecines of hybrid DI filmouts / camera negatives. The extended blu-ray of FOTR is the first time we're seeing a transfer of that movie made directly from the DI files. Basing how the movie is "supposed" to look on previous transfers is kinda pointless.
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post #5002 of 5590 Old 11-15-2012, 09:59 PM
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Where are you getting that "the Wachowskis' main reason for doing a new transfer was dissatisfaction with the first transfer, not a desire to revise the original look of the movie"? I've never read that anywhere, and I've read it was intentionally changed many, many times. I don't like the new color timing of FotR, at all, but the changes to all of the in-Matrix scenes in the first film of that series were so egregious it bordered on comedic (so much so that it makes FotR look like no big deal.) Yeah, great - they brought it in line with the following two [horrible] movies. The original did have a slight green bias in the in-Matrix scenes, the revised version took it to an extreme. The overbearing emerald green tint was so insane and distracting that it couldn't not be noticed constantly, it was crazy. This is a comparison of the original color grading (taken from the original, unaltered DVD release) and the "revised" version from later editions:



I also saw it theatrically several times (huge fan of the first film) and the level of added green to the in-Matrix scenes is so intense in the re-issue (I noticed it and was bothered by it immediately before ever reading or hearing of the change) that there's no way I wouldn't have noticed it in the theater as well. I really is a shame that I can't buy a high quality release of the Matrix that I loved so much in the theater. Anyway, that's off topic, so going back to FotR - I really hope they do reisue it one day with the original EE color timing restored.
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post #5003 of 5590 Old 11-16-2012, 08:58 AM
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If you saw it several times theatrically, and don't recall the green being in there, then I guess I stand corrected.
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post #5004 of 5590 Old 11-19-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang Zei View Post

In regards to FOTR, I reiterate my point that the previous transfers were telecines of hybrid DI filmouts / camera negatives. The extended blu-ray of FOTR is the first time we're seeing a transfer of that movie made directly from the DI files. Basing how the movie is "supposed" to look on previous transfers is kinda pointless.

So we're not supposed to see any detail in the Mines of Moria scene? Okay then.
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So we're not supposed to see any detail in the Mines of Moria scene? Okay then.
Does someone have a comparison for these suppsedly detail-less scenes? I didn't really catch anything amiss during my viewing but I'm not as familiar with the previous DVDs and blu-rays as others...
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post #5006 of 5590 Old 11-19-2012, 11:38 AM
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Does someone have a comparison for these suppsedly detail-less scenes? I didn't really catch anything amiss during my viewing but I'm not as familiar with the previous DVDs and blu-rays as others...

Somewhere in the blackness of this 5K-post thread are comparisons between the theatrical blurry Blu-ray and the extended edition green'n'crushed Blu-ray. The theatrical Blu-ray, despite its filtering, has shadow detail that absent from the extended Blu-ray. I have all the versions, so I've got no particular axe to grind, but I will say that I prefer the overall boost in clarity in the extended edition over the bluriness of the theatrical edition, despite the obvious failings in color and contrast.
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post #5007 of 5590 Old 11-19-2012, 09:08 PM
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If you want an example, look for the shot that has the white bar across it. That's the kill-all right there, the one they need to show to PJ and Lesnie.

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post #5008 of 5590 Old 11-20-2012, 11:55 AM
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I bought the 15-disc set at BB's one-day $39.99 sale price. I watched 1 hour of LOTR:FOTR on my 24" monitor and could see the effect of the tint - i.e., true whites were just not there, though the scenes weren't as bad as they looked at caps-a-holic. For the most part it has not been objectionable, and the increase in PQ compared to the DVD makes it worth it. Yeah, I wish it weren't there, but I'd still rather watch the BD than the DVD even if it is slightly off-color. In 5-6 years or so when we get the 4K or 8K version of both it and all 3 parts of The Hobbit, maybe they'll fix it.
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post #5009 of 5590 Old 11-21-2012, 10:49 AM
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I was thinking about this the other day, and theorized that they might do a 3D conversion of these films, if the 3D in The Hobbit works well. Then we'll get a new transfer, hopefully without the tint.

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post #5010 of 5590 Old 11-21-2012, 11:01 AM
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It'll probably be the same DI used as a basis for the 3D conversion. Between Star Wars Episode 1, Titanic, and Jurassic Park, it seems that redoing any digital work seems to be unfeasible and FOTR is like 80% digitally manipulated. Colors will probably get touched up though.
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