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post #5551 of 5590 Old 04-04-2014, 05:56 AM
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I had ordered when this was first posted and Amazon dutifully back-ordered it for me, and I have the Theatrical set in-hand now for $12.96 shipped. That makes the third set I've bought, first the deluxe DVD set then the extended BD set and now the theatrical BD set and I've only watched the first movie from the DVD set!

Hope I live long enough to find time to watch these things!!! redface.gif
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post #5552 of 5590 Old 04-04-2014, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

For those of you that don't want green, but want bad filtering, the theatrical trilogy is only $13!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0086B89JO

Holding out for no green AND good filtering, and a bundle with Hobbit extended version. smile.gif
Let's set the timer to 2 years and see how it goes. I'll re-assess then. When does Smaug the Terrible Movie Trilogy part 3 come out in theaters anyway?
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post #5553 of 5590 Old 04-09-2014, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post


What exactly CAVX? If not for the green tint which was a pretty minor issue actually when watching the film in motion with no comparison shots IMO (I would love to see it without the tint though), I thought this was an excellent set overall for both PQ and AQ. Certainly no major issues to my eyes. Could be I just missed what you found, but I am curious what exactly you are talking about.
Disagree on that, the tint shifts the natural face colorings and turns the white and light grey shades greenish (not to mention the consistent greenish cast to the "blue" sky). Just take a look at Gandalf's face/hair/hat in the closeup as he arrives in the cart and responds to Frodo "he (a wizard) arrives precisely when he means to" (11:24)! Doesn't look at all natural, whereas the DVD does. This damage is pretty consistently evident and I find it distracting.
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post #5554 of 5590 Old 04-14-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Disagree on that, the tint shifts the natural face colorings and turns the white and light grey shades greenish (not to mention the consistent greenish cast to the "blue" sky). Just take a look at Gandalf's face/hair/hat in the closeup as he arrives in the cart and responds to Frodo "he (a wizard) arrives precisely when he means to" (11:24)! Doesn't look at all natural, whereas the DVD does. This damage is pretty consistently evident and I find it distracting.

I would like to see the green gone, so I am not trying to defend it. Having said that, I have watched the tinted EE a few times now and for me it is a very minor issue at best when watching the film. I respect that others find it distracting as well. smile.gif

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post #5555 of 5590 Old 04-15-2014, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I would like to see the green gone, so I am not trying to defend it. Having said that, I have watched the tinted EE a few times now and for me it is a very minor issue at best when watching the film. I respect that others find it distracting as well. smile.gif

Don't forget the black crush....thus GREEN CRUSH as I like to call it. smile.gif
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post #5556 of 5590 Old 04-15-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Don't forget the black crush....thus GREEN CRUSH as I like to call it. smile.gif


I really did not notice the crush to be honest. Looked great on my calibrated RS45 as far as shadow detail goes.

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post #5557 of 5590 Old 04-15-2014, 07:06 PM
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What scene is the black crush?
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post #5558 of 5590 Old 04-15-2014, 09:45 PM
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As others have pointed out before, "crush" is the wrong word for it (I'm guilty of misusing it). It isn't clipping, the detail is all still there, but the brightness or gamma is altered such that the detail in dark areas, while still present, is considerably less distinct than it was before. I personally was most bothered by Bree, but I suppose it can vary from person to person, depending on how much they value the detail in particular scenes.
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post #5559 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

As others have pointed out before, "crush" is the wrong word for it (I'm guilty of misusing it). It isn't clipping, the detail is all still there, but the brightness or gamma is altered such that the detail in dark areas, while still present, is considerably less distinct than it was before. I personally was most bothered by Bree, but I suppose it can vary from person to person, depending on how much they value the detail in particular scenes.

But couldn't we consider crush to be crushing all of the detail into a range of brightness which renders it too dark to see? Which term do you suggest instead?
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post #5560 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

As others have pointed out before, "crush" is the wrong word for it (I'm guilty of misusing it). It isn't clipping, the detail is all still there, but the brightness or gamma is altered such that the detail in dark areas, while still present, is considerably less distinct than it was before. I personally was most bothered by Bree, but I suppose it can vary from person to person, depending on how much they value the detail in particular scenes.
There's a handful of shots where some shadow detail is actually clipped (or the encoder decided that information was too dim to be worth keeping).

I hardly see why it matters though. There isn't a "right" amount of shadow detail. It's an artistic variable.
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post #5561 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 11:50 AM
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It's not just shadow detail - the entire image has been dimmed. The brightness of the brightest white is something like 7% below industry standard. The entire image, from shadows to mids to highlights, are all about 7% dimmer than before. This pushes some dim shadow details from being in the realm of barely visible to not visible, which is why it looks like crush. The correct term would be 'gain too low' or 'white level too low.'
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post #5562 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

It's not just shadow detail - the entire image has been dimmed. The brightness of the brightest white is something like 7% below industry standard. The entire image, from shadows to mids to highlights, are all about 7% dimmer than before. This pushes some dim shadow details from being in the realm of barely visible to not visible, which is why it looks like crush. The correct term would be 'gain too low' or 'white level too low.'

I think I will stick with GREEN CRUSH then, because every color other than green has been crushed. Afterall, marketability is just as important as technical accuracy when it comes to naming things. tongue.gif
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post #5563 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I hardly see why it matters though. There isn't a "right" amount of shadow detail. It's an artistic variable.

So, much like Friedkin's French Connection, there is no reference for Fellowship. Every release is a unique artistic snowflake to be judged on its own merits.

That's fine. I judged this one as too dark on its own merits.
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post #5564 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

So, much like Friedkin's French Connection, there is no reference for Fellowship. Every release is a unique artistic snowflake to be judged on its own merits..
Unless you've got a filmmaker-approved answer print laying around, I'm not sure how else you'd judge the "correct" black levels. Many movies are dark or have crushed blacks or high contrast by design, and this is often not reproduced correctly on video (for movies not mastered digitally, anyway).
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post #5565 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Many movies are dark or have crushed blacks or high contrast by design

That is true, many movies have dark themes, crushed blacks on purpose, etc. However, the only other Blu-ray movie I know of that has a non-industry-standard white level (the brightest white seen anywhere, including outdoor scenes and the credits) was The Last of the Mohicans, and along with it came the same debate and foul cries of a mastering error vs. director intent, because the DVD and other versions had proper white levels.
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post #5566 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

So, much like Friedkin's French Connection, there is no reference for Fellowship. Every release is a unique artistic snowflake to be judged on its own merits.

That's fine. I judged this one as too dark on its own merits.

lol biggrin.gif

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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Unless you've got a filmmaker-approved answer print laying around, I'm not sure how else you'd judge the "correct" black levels. Many movies are dark or have crushed blacks or high contrast by design, and this is often not reproduced correctly on video (for movies not mastered digitally, anyway).

It is too dark if you can't see what the frak is going on in dark scenes.
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post #5567 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post

It is too dark if you can't see what the frak is going on in dark scenes.
According to who? Not being able to see everything in dark scenes isn't a valid artistic choice?
But since I see everything just fine, clearly it's not too dark even by that arbitrary definition. Then again, I've actually watched it wink.gif
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post #5568 of 5590 Old 04-16-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

According to who? Not being able to see everything in dark scenes isn't a valid artistic choice?
But since I see everything just fine, clearly it's not too dark even by that arbitrary definition. Then again, I've actually watched it wink.gif

I didn't say, "not being able to see EVERYTHING," now did I?

According to whom, btw.

Edit: Before you get defensive, that last sentence was meant to be tongue in cheek. tongue.gif
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post #5569 of 5590 Old 04-20-2014, 04:12 PM
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Look at the dark long-shot of the orcs working in the mines. You can compare both TE and EE transfers on the caps-a-holics site. Jackson and Lesnie apparently made the "artistic decision" to crush some of the orcs into blackness, despite paying the CGI artists to render them and show them theatrically.

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post #5570 of 5590 Old 04-20-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Look at the dark long-shot of the orcs working in the mines. You can compare both TE and EE transfers on the caps-a-holics site. Jackson and Lesnie apparently made the "artistic decision" to crush some of the orcs into blackness, despite paying the CGI artists to render them and show them theatrically.

It looks like whomever at the home video department did the color timing for the 2k DI by adjusting it with a global green tinted sledgehammer rather than a surgical scalpel from scene to scene. It doesn't look like a professional color timer worked on the project.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #5571 of 5590 Old 04-20-2014, 05:39 PM
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Hmmm. Which version has more green here and here? If it were a "green tinted sledgehammer" then everything would be green, no? And I see more blue than green in some scenes, like the approach to the hills of Emyn Muil here; the theatrical has that classic magenta tinge of old transfers while the new one is a steely blue. Not much green there.

There are plenty of other scenes which *do* have the green (though it's more like teal) tinting so we don't need to see those, but the above caps should prove that it isn't a case of "set and forget". Someone timed the movie shot by shot like any professional would, it just so happens that it was timed with modern DI sensibilities in mind, ergo the shadow detail's a bit flatter and there's lots and lots of teal.

I honestly don't have a problem with the colour (I have the theatrical version anyway to preserve that edition) and the fine detail is exceptionally good, some of the sharpest I've yet seen on the Blu-ray format.
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post #5572 of 5590 Old 04-21-2014, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Hmmm. Which version has more green here and here? If it were a "green tinted sledgehammer" then everything would be green, no? And I see more blue than green in some scenes, like the approach to the hills of Emyn Muil here; the theatrical has that classic magenta tinge of old transfers while the new one is a steely blue. Not much green there.

These shots trump the TE in every possible way.
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post #5573 of 5590 Old 04-21-2014, 10:33 AM
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Lol at this thread still going...

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post #5574 of 5590 Old 04-21-2014, 10:42 AM
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Lol at this thread still going...

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biggrin.gif Yep, the debate rages on!
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post #5575 of 5590 Old 04-22-2014, 12:37 AM
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The Tivo Community has a long running thread (Could be the longest running thread) named "Wife Won't Delete Recordings". Think of this as the middle earth version of it. This thread will outlive us all. biggrin.gif

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post #5576 of 5590 Old 04-22-2014, 09:49 AM
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We should just rename it to LOTR EE GC wink.gif
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post #5577 of 5590 Old 08-16-2014, 10:30 AM
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Hi,

I just picked up the extended bluray release LOTR movies (2 discs per package 6.1 DTS HD) from Amazon. One thing that surprised me was that the LFE (audio going to sub woofer) seemed to be quite subdued compared the Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks on the DVD version. The scene where it is most noticeable for me is "Horn of Helm Hammerhand" in the Two Towers when the horn is blowing. Usually I feel the room shake (using a Paradigm PS 1000). The bluray discs it feels like nothing.

Just curious if this is a known issue?
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post #5578 of 5590 Old 08-16-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kagetora13 View Post
Hi,

I just picked up the extended bluray release LOTR movies (2 discs per package 6.1 DTS HD) from Amazon. One thing that surprised me was that the LFE (audio going to sub woofer) seemed to be quite subdued compared the Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks on the DVD version. The scene where it is most noticeable for me is "Horn of Helm Hammerhand" in the Two Towers when the horn is blowing. Usually I feel the room shake (using a Paradigm PS 1000). The bluray discs it feels like nothing.

Just curious if this is a known issue?
You mean besides the fact DD is normally louder then lossless?
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post #5579 of 5590 Old 08-16-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
You mean besides the fact DD is normally louder then lossless?
The Bluray DTS sound track just appears to send hardly any sound to the subwoofer.

My amplifier is a Technics sa-da8 and I do see the DTS light go on. Other movies like Gladiator seem to work fine.
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post #5580 of 5590 Old 08-16-2014, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagetora13 View Post
The Bluray DTS sound track just appears to send hardly any sound to the subwoofer.

My amplifier is a Technics sa-da8 and I do see the DTS light go on. Other movies like Gladiator seem to work fine.
Given the model of your receiver, you're only playing the DTS lossy track off the Blu-ray. You'll have to move up to something that can decode DTS Master Audio lossless. The bass is thunderous on my setup.

Perhaps something that can decode Dolby Atmos as well.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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