What is the best version of Casino Royale? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the best R1 version of Casino Royale? The Collector's Edition?
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 08:48 PM
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Blu Rays don't have region numbers, they have region letters (A, B, C, etc.) Lots of movies released in Europe (Region B) are actually completely region free and play fine in North America (region A). Since PAL and NTSC is no longer an issue you don't have to worry about that either (except in the odd instance that extras are stored in SD PAL format or a TV show from Europe is 1080i50. These won't apply to Casino Royale though.)

Casino Royale has slight cuts/edits in North America, so you're better off tracking down the French Deluxe Edition or the Australian release - both of which are region free and completely uncut. If you're willing to pay the extra cash these would be the ultimate editions to get. I prefer the Australian version because I prefer the standard package to the digibook style deluxe edition one and I like that the package is all in English.... and I don't care about the additional extras the Deluxe Edition features.

Here's a link to where you can pick up the Aussie version.
http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/792930


I think the Deluxe edition versions have added extras, the movie itself is the same.
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks SD. But what if I just wanted a Region A version. Bought locally or from Amazon Canada Which version should I go with?

I liked CR a lot. But not enough to pay $35.00 AUS plus shipping. I saw most of the Region A version on TV last night. Was surprised how good it was. Better than many of the pre-Daniel Craig films. I think I'll stick with a Region A.
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-25-2011, 11:53 PM
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They'll all be the same when it comes to the movie itself, the only difference between the different versions you'd see on Amazon.ca would be the amount of extras included. Not sure if Canada got a "deluxe" version or not, but if it did the movie itself (length, picture quality, audio quality) would be identical to the original Blu release... so if the movie itself is the only thing you care about go with whatever version costs the least. If you're willing to pay a few bucks more for a handful of additional extras go with the Deluxe version.
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGC888 View Post

Thanks SD. But what if I just wanted a Region A version. Bought locally or from Amazon Canada Which version should I go with?

I liked CR a lot. But not enough to pay $35.00 AUS plus shipping. I saw most of the Region A version on TV last night. Was surprised how good it was. Better than many of the pre-Daniel Craig films. I think I'll stick with a Region A.

Uncut French edition. Region free.

http://www.amazon.fr/James-Bond-Casi...6035288&sr=1-1

If you wanted the edited US version, the collector's edition is the best version for that.

http://www.amazon.ca/Casino-Royale-C...6035433&sr=1-1

But honestly, I don't think the French version would be that much more. Maybe $10. And IMO, it's worth it.
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I was sort of looking to buy CR. But I think I'll wait for "Vol. 4". I bought the first 3 volume (3 movie BD per). Don't want to buy twice.

Surprised Vol. 4 and maybe 5 aren't out yet.

Thanks guys.
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 08:57 AM
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The Australian deluxe edition. It's out of print however...
I have that one, YOU WILL NOT NOTICE WHATS DIFFERENT.
It's supremely not worth it.

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post #8 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGC888 View Post

I was sort of looking to buy CR. But I think I'll wait for "Vol. 4". I bought the first 3 volume (3 movie BD per). Don't want to buy twice.

Surprised Vol. 4 and maybe 5 aren't out yet.

Thanks guys.

Casino Royale won't be a part of any of the boxsets released by MGM/Fox. CR is a Sony release. Quantum of Solace however is a MGM/Fox release.

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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

The Australian deluxe edition. It's out of print however...
I have that one, YOU WILL NOT NOTICE WHATS DIFFERENT.
It's supremely not worth it.

It is if you've seen the edited version a few times. The fights have much more impact and flow better in the uncut version, particularly the stairway fight.
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

YOU WILL NOT NOTICE WHATS DIFFERENT.

Oh rly?

From dvdcompare.net
Quote:


The pre-cut PG-13 theatrical version (144:12) in which the following cuts have been made:
- After an overhead shot of Bond and the contact smashing down a wall, the first and last few frames of a shot of Bond elbowing the contact in the chest are removed.
- Directly after, a shot Bond smashing the door into the contact's face is completely removed.
- After Bond gets to his feet, he kicks the contact in the face. This is missing from the US version.
- Directly after, we see Bond grabbing the contact, who in turn grabs a garbage can, which he hurls at Bond. In the US version, we only get the last few frames of this.
- When Bond hauls the contact to his feet and manouevres him towards another sink, the start of a low angle shot showing the contact's face as he struggles is cut.
- The drowning of the contact is dramatically shortened. First, a close-up of the contact as he is held under is replaced with a shot of the contact's legs kicking.
- Directly after, a close-up of Bond's intense face is removed.
- Following this, we cut back to the contact as his struggles weaken. This is missing in the US version.
- The high shot showing Obanno's bodyguard hitting the ground below after being thrown over the banister is removed. This shot is placed between Bond and Obanno fighting.
- A close-up of Obanno as Bond smashes his head into a window, shattering it, is missing from US version.
- Directly after, a wider shot of Obanno recovering and attacking again is cut due to the previous trim.
- The first few frames of Obanno being thrown into a wall are missing in the US version.
- Obanno grabbing Vesper's leg as she tries to run away is completely removed.
- The following shot of Vesper falling but stopping herself in time is cut due to the previous shot's removal.
- After we see Vesper try to open the emergency exit, a wide shot of Bond shoving Obanno back is missing from the US version.
- Directly following, a wide shot of BG2 falling back is also missing.
- Afterwards, Obanno reacting as Bond kicks him is too cut.
- Obanno rams Bond against the wall, but not in the US version.
- When Bond and Obanno struggle on the floor, Bond chokes BG2. The second angle of Obanno's feet kicking is removed.
- After we see Obanno's face, we see him reaching for the gun on the ground. Missing from the US version.
- A wider shot of them struggling is cut directly after.
- The next shot, Obanno reaching for the gun again, is cut. In the US version, we only see Obanno reaching for the gun just before Vesper intervenes.
- A shot of frightened Vesper breaks a shot of Obanno's legs starting to stop kicking. In the uncut version, the legs starting to slow is in one continuous shot, followed by the frightened Vesper shot.

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post #10 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raoul_duke View Post

Oh rly?

From dvdcompare.net

This list of changes sounds impressive, until you actually watch the "Uncut" version and realize that most of the extensions are barely 1 second long or less each. The fight in the bathroom at the beginning of the movie is exactly 3 seconds longer. The fight in the stairwell has a grand total of 19 seconds worth of changes spread across about a 6 minute scene. That scene is edited so rapidly in both versions that I had to watch back-to-back about a dozen times in order to tell what was added. Most of the changes are invisible without frame-by-frame analysis.

If I have both in hand, I prefer to watch the international version. However, I wouldn't feel cheated in any way if I only had the American version. The differences are so negligible that they're not worth getting worked up about. Both versions were approved by the filmmakers.

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post #11 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This list of changes sounds impressive, until you actually watch the "Uncut" version and realize that most of the extensions are barely 1 second long or less each. The fight in the bathroom at the beginning of the movie is exactly 3 seconds longer. The fight in the stairwell has a grand total of 19 seconds worth of changes spread across about a 6 minute scene. That scene is edited so rapidly in both versions that I had to watch back-to-back about a dozen times in order to tell what was added. Most of the changes are invisible without frame-by-frame analysis.

If I have both in hand, I prefer to watch the international version. However, I wouldn't feel cheated in any way if I only had the American version. The differences are so negligible that they're not worth getting worked up about. Both versions were approved by the filmmakers.

Except that one isn't censored and one is. Obviously, I'm sure Martin Campbell would prefer you watch the sequences uncensored as he originally shot and conceived them. Also, the stairwell fight is much more easily comprehended in the uncut version. In the censored version there's quite a few gaps in the logic of the fight that are more easily understood in the uncensored version.
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 05:54 PM
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At the end of the day it doesn't sound like OP really is looking to pay for such subtle differences. Best deal on CR right now is at Best Buy Canada - $18 for a double-pack including Black Hawk Down. Picture and sound quality are the same level as the Collector's Edition. If you don't like BHD, amazon.ca has CR for $13.87.
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-26-2011, 08:07 PM
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This site says the Australian version has some shots missing.

I have the first Canadian and the British Deluxe version. I'm more bothered by one instance of Americanism usage in a quintessentially British story than the cuts in the fight and torture scenes.

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post #14 of 29 Old 01-28-2011, 01:31 PM
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Sorry, but you got it all backwards (or the text is misleading). The Aussie version DOES NOT MISS ANY SHOTS! The UK version uses some alternative, more harmless shots.
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post #15 of 29 Old 02-02-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Except that one isn't censored and one is. Obviously, I'm sure Martin Campbell would prefer you watch the sequences uncensored as he originally shot and conceived them.

"Censored" is not the appropriate word for this situation. The producers and director made changes to get the ratings they wanted. There are several alternate versions of the movie available in different countries.

If any movie that's trimmed by a few frames to get a favorable MPAA rating is "censored," that would mean that almost every action, sci-fi, or horror film ever released in this country (and a significant number of comedies and dramas) is censored. It's the nature of the business. The give-and-take between the ratings board and the filmmakers is, for better or worse, part of the creative process.

Quote:


Also, the stairwell fight is much more easily comprehended in the uncut version. In the censored version there's quite a few gaps in the logic of the fight that are more easily understood in the uncensored version.

The scene is chaotic and confusing in either version. The editing of that scene was tightened up in the American release for reasons that have nothing to do with the MPAA rating or censorship. Most of the changes come down to a few frames shaved off shots here and there, mainly of innocuous things like Bond running or punches being swung. Those would not have affected the rating. For whatever reason, Campbell and the producers decided to adjust the flow of the scene.

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post #16 of 29 Old 02-02-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

"Censored" is not the appropriate word for this situation. The producers and director made changes to get the ratings they wanted. There are several alternate versions of the movie available in different countries.

What you just described is censorship. They were forced to make changes to what they originally edited and preferred in order to obtain a certain rating. Seriously, grab a dictionary.

Quote:


The scene is chaotic and confusing in either version. The editing of that scene was tightened up in the American release for reasons that have nothing to do with the MPAA rating or censorship. Most of the changes come down to a few frames shaved off shots here and there, mainly of innocuous things like Bond running or punches being swung. Those would not have affected the rating. For whatever reason, Campbell and the producers decided to adjust the flow of the scene.

The editing is far less chaotic in the uncensored version and it most certainly was censored because of the additional violence, namely the man who falls down the stairwell landing and the extension of the strangulation. There are large gaps in the logic of the fight in the censored version.
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post #17 of 29 Old 02-02-2011, 01:09 PM
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From how I understand how the US rating system works is that the MPAA will provide general notes of content that constitutes a rating. They do not specify exactly what should be cut or how, else that would constitute as censorship, and it is up to the filmmakers or the studio to make adjustments and resubmit if they want a different rating. Rinse and repeat until one magically figures out the balance the film can get away with.

The whole process can be rather convoluted and frequently inconsistent; the MPAA typically favors the major studios and are considerably more strict with Independent films.

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One example off the top of my head is Saints & Soldiers. I was able to attend a screening with the director and some of the crew. We were shown the "R rated" version then later viewed the PG-13 cut of the offending scene. It was actually one shot that was supposedly far too impact full due the proximity of the camera to the offending content so the filmmakers used a wider shot. Neither version frankly was much different than what is commonly found on television today under the TV-14 moniker, if not less so.

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post #18 of 29 Old 02-02-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

"Censored" is not the appropriate word for this situation. The producers and director made changes to get the ratings they wanted. There are several alternate versions of the movie available in different countries.

If any movie that's trimmed by a few frames to get a favorable MPAA rating is "censored," that would mean that almost every action, sci-fi, or horror film ever released in this country (and a significant number of comedies and dramas) is censored. It's the nature of the business. The give-and-take between the ratings board and the filmmakers is, for better or worse, part of the creative process.



The scene is chaotic and confusing in either version. The editing of that scene was tightened up in the American release for reasons that have nothing to do with the MPAA rating or censorship. Most of the changes come down to a few frames shaved off shots here and there, mainly of innocuous things like Bond running or punches being swung. Those would not have affected the rating. For whatever reason, Campbell and the producers decided to adjust the flow of the scene.

Thanks for clarifying Josh. I just bought the latest American release from BestBuy. Based on what you said I'm not really missing anything then. Now if you had said they cut some of Solange's appearance on screen, I'd have been disappointed
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post #19 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 03:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

"Censored" is not the appropriate word for this situation. The producers and director made changes to get the ratings they wanted. There are several alternate versions of the movie available in different countries.

Correct.

Quote:
If any movie that's trimmed by a few frames to get a favorable MPAA rating is "censored," that would mean that almost every action, sci-fi, or horror film ever released in this country (and a significant number of comedies and dramas) is censored. It's the nature of the business. The give-and-take between the ratings board and the filmmakers is, for better or worse, part of the creative process.

I understand what you are saying, but that isn't entirely accurate. You can't get suggestions from the MPAA.

Quote:
The scene is chaotic and confusing in either version. The editing of that scene was tightened up in the American release for reasons that have nothing to do with the MPAA rating or censorship. Most of the changes come down to a few frames shaved off shots here and there, mainly of innocuous things like Bond running or punches being swung. Those would not have affected the rating. For whatever reason, Campbell and the producers decided to adjust the flow of the scene.

This was to remove some of the violence for the audience, not for the rating.
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post #20 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

What you just described is censorship. They were forced to make changes to what they originally edited and preferred in order to obtain a certain rating. Seriously, grab a dictionary.

"Censorship" would involve the film being taken out of the filmmakers' hands and changed without their involvement or consent. The BBFC in England frequently censors movies. The MPAA does not. There is no law in America that requires movies to be released with certain ratings. There is no law in America that says, for example, "Depictions of headbutting in a movie are not allowed."

The filmmakers' were not "forced" to do anything in the US. They could have chosen to release the movie with a higher "R" rating. They could have chosen to release it unrated. That they decided to edit the movie to obtain a lower PG-13 rating was a marketing decision, not censorship.

Quote:


The editing is far less chaotic in the uncensored version and it most certainly was censored because of the additional violence, namely the man who falls down the stairwell landing and the extension of the strangulation. There are large gaps in the logic of the fight in the censored version.

I'm not going to disagree with this. I prefer the longer version as well, in direct comparison. However, what was trimmed from the scene would not have affected the movie's rating. The frames were trimmed because the filmmakers decided to tighten up the scene.

Even in its shorter version, that stairwell scene is far less confusing or chaotic than pretty much the entirety of Quantum of Solace.

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post #21 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

I understand what you are saying, but that isn't entirely accurate. You can't get suggestions from the MPAA.

The MPAA is very hypocritical about this. They frequently will give editing notes to major studios or powerful producers, but not to smaller or independent productions.

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post #22 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 11:19 AM
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I'm just going to say the uncut version is not as good as the theatrical version, even from the opening scene.

The two-disc collector's edition has the best sound quality.
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post #23 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I'm not going to disagree with this. I prefer the longer version as well, in direct comparison. However, what was trimmed from the scene would not have affected the movie's rating. The frames were trimmed because the filmmakers decided to tightn up the scene.

Hmm... has this explicitly been stated somewhere? I find it very odd that the filmmakers would choose to re-edit the scene for its US release but release a different, more violent version elsewhere. Re-cut to get a lower rating, though - I find that only too plausible.

As for the differences between the version, I'll go for the more violent "international" version any day. The added intensity during the pre-credits bathroom fight alone seals the deal for me (and it's true what others have said - the editing makes the stairwell fight more coherent in the international version).
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

I'm just going to say the uncut version is not as good as the theatrical version, even from the opening scene.

Just curious - why?
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post #25 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Even in its shorter version, that stairwell scene is far less confusing or chaotic than pretty much the entirety of Quantum of Solace.

Agreed. I'm still trying to make sense of that movie.
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post #26 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiggles View Post

Hmm... has this explicitly been stated somewhere? I find it very odd that the filmmakers would choose to re-edit the scene for its US release but release a different, more violent version elsewhere. Re-cut to get a lower rating, though - I find that only too plausible.

Perhaps a more violent Bond is less palpable to American audiences. I have a co-worker who said this Bond is too rough, raw, and violent. In contrast she preferred the more subtle and sophisticated Connery.
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post #27 of 29 Old 02-03-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

Perhaps a more violent Bond is less palpable to American audiences. I have a co-worker who said this Bond is too rough, raw, and violent. In contrast she preferred the more subtle and sophisticated Connery.

We just don't like reboots.

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post #28 of 29 Old 02-05-2011, 03:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

We just don't like reboots.

I told my contact that the studios had permission to "reboot" titles although I don't think I used that term. Here is some of what your gettiing as a result. The list looks very limited in retrospect.

X-Men: First Class
Kung Fu Panda 2
Scream 4
Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II
Final Destination 5
Spy Kids 4: All the Time in the World
Mission: Impossible Ghost Protocol
Alvin and the Chipmunks: Chipwrecked
Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance
Underworld 4
Star Trek 2
Men in Black III
Madagascar 3
Spider-Man 3D
The Bourne Legacy
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post #29 of 29 Old 02-05-2011, 03:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The MPAA is very hypocritical about this. They frequently will give editing notes to major studios or powerful producers, but not to smaller or independent productions.

That was never the case in my experience, or the notes were not brought to my attention.
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